cross creek manor

[Antigen]

"

On 2005-05-04 08:16:00, Anonymous wrote:



"I have never met or spoken to a parent that "wanted" to put their kid there."

Yeah, you ought to meet my mother. Kept going to open meetings and any other event she was allowed for years after I left the program.

The law in its majestic equality, forbids all men to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread - the rich as well as the poor

--Anatole France

[Anonymous]

On 2005-05-04 16:15:00, Perriga?d wrote:

"You people just don't get it. I CHOSE to go to CCM with my behavior. If I wasn't such a bad teen, and hadn't put my parents through hell I wouldnt of had to go. I CHOSE to go with my own actions. Kids all around the world are starving to death at this very moment. IN North Korea, parents are letting their kids starve all around them. We have it much better in America, and I am glad to support such a great program as WWASP. I hope everyone sends their child there. Go search "Teen Help" and take the quiz on behalf of your teen. You will see, they need to go!



I'm telling you first hand. I was a teenager not too long ago. I was such a bad girl, I'm surprised I made it alive to CCM. Thank GOD they took me in and saved me. If it wasn't for them I don't know where I'd be right now. I for SURE would have been dead or in jail. I was a horrible teen, of course I would have been dead or in jail!



Stop calling me brainwashed. I've seen the movie manchurian candidate, I know what brainwashing is. Nobody tied me up and used a computer to brainwash me, you guys are all crazy. It is YOU who are brainwashed. You are all brainwahsed by other programs... who are jelous of WWASP's success! I can't believe you all can be so naive. If WWASP was so bad, why would they be allowed to operate still? We live in a country of laws. You are all so stupid.



Don't you get it it yet? I was AT Cross Creek. I was THERE! I NEVER saw any abuse, and was never abused. Therefore, we can reasonably deduct that no abuse occurs. I turned out so good. I am HAPPY! I have lots of money. I have peace of mind. Do you? I doubt it, filling these forums with hate for the program. It doesn't make any sense. You should go to a Discovery seminar or something and figure your shit out!



I'm tired of arguing with you people. I just hope you know you all are wrong, and I am right. I will defend WWASP until I die, and nothing will change that. I love WWASP. I am a Loving, passionate, caring young woman.

"

Thanks, I needed the laugh.

[spots]

And if you think it's okay and not child neglect to wilfully deprive a kid of shoes and define shoes as a privilege, then you're not playing with a full deck, either.



Timoclea







"

I'm not sure if I'd call flip-flops in and of themselves 'abusive".  A whole lot of the world calls them their only footwear.  What I WOULD call abusive is the fact that the kids are told over and over that they wear flimsy sandals for the specific, sole, and punitive reason that such footwear is issued just so escape becomes very difficult or nearly impossible.  Sort of like wearing shackles or hobbles...is that abusive for a prisoner going to court?  No.  Is that abusive for teenagers going about their twisted life in the gulag?  Yes.  

BTW, it was not their ONLY shoes.  Even in Casa, they had their tennis shoes which were passed out for the half-hour forced marches called PE, and then recollected.  Our kid's problem was that when she was sent off, her shoes were already tight.  During her year there, she grew enough (duh!) to need a larger size, which never happened.  She limped along for a while, then learned to jog around the courtyard in flip-flops. Was this abusive?  Maybe, but definitely sadistic and neglectful.

[Deborah]

*** I CHOSE to go to CCM with my behavior.

I respectfully disagree Perri. Your ?behavior? was a signal for some needed attention and action, but it was your parents who ?chose? to place you in a bm warehouse. They had other options. Behaviors, actions,  ?choose? nothing. It?s unfortunate that so many parents these days haven?t a clue how to interpret those signs, nor have a clue what to do. Leaves them feeling pretty desperate and vulnerable.

I don?t doubt that you are a loving, passionate, caring young woman. I do doubt that any program had anything to do with that. Give yourself some credit for being inherently loving, passionate and caring. Others don?t deserve the credit for that-  only serves to further inflate their egos, and ?mis?program you.

[plomly22]

On 2005-05-04 18:03:00, spots wrote:

"I'm not sure if I'd call flip-flops in and of themselves 'abusive".  A whole lot of the world calls them their only footwear.  What I WOULD call abusive is the fact that the kids are told over and over that they wear flimsy sandals for the specific, sole, and punitive reason that such footwear is issued just so escape becomes very difficult or nearly impossible.  Sort of like wearing shackles or hobbles...is that abusive for a prisoner going to court?  No.  Is that abusive for teenagers going about their twisted life in the gulag?  Yes."

If they got flip-flops they were lucky we had to wear soft-soled slippers, no exceptions. In the rain and the snow. The first seminar I went through I remember having to walk outside back and forth from the dorm to the training room while it was snowing and the ground was covered in slush and sitting all day with soaking wet slippers that didn't dry overnight. I already had feet problems before and was suppose to be wearing corrective orthotics in my shoes but I went without shoes for 7 months, which I do think is a factor in why my feet are worse today then years ago.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-05-04 16:15:00, Perriga?d wrote:

"You people just don't get it. I CHOSE to go to CCM with my behavior. If I wasn't such a bad teen, and hadn't put my parents through hell I wouldnt of had to go. I CHOSE to go with my own actions. Kids all around the world are starving to death at this very moment. IN North Korea, parents are letting their kids starve all around them. We have it much better in America, and I am glad to support such a great program as WWASP. I hope everyone sends their child there. Go search "Teen Help" and take the quiz on behalf of your teen. You will see, they need to go!



I'm telling you first hand. I was a teenager not too long ago. I was such a bad girl, I'm surprised I made it alive to CCM. Thank GOD they took me in and saved me. If it wasn't for them I don't know where I'd be right now. I for SURE would have been dead or in jail. I was a horrible teen, of course I would have been dead or in jail!



Stop calling me brainwashed. I've seen the movie manchurian candidate, I know what brainwashing is. Nobody tied me up and used a computer to brainwash me, you guys are all crazy. It is YOU who are brainwashed. You are all brainwahsed by other programs... who are jelous of WWASP's success! I can't believe you all can be so naive. If WWASP was so bad, why would they be allowed to operate still? We live in a country of laws. You are all so stupid.



Don't you get it it yet? I was AT Cross Creek. I was THERE! I NEVER saw any abuse, and was never abused. Therefore, we can reasonably deduct that no abuse occurs. I turned out so good. I am HAPPY! I have lots of money. I have peace of mind. Do you? I doubt it, filling these forums with hate for the program. It doesn't make any sense. You should go to a Discovery seminar or something and figure your shit out!



I'm tired of arguing with you people. I just hope you know you all are wrong, and I am right. I will defend WWASP until I die, and nothing will change that. I love WWASP. I am a Loving, passionate, caring young woman.

"

Wow, ya got me.

Until I saw the umlaut over the "u" I thought Perri had really lost it.

Good parody, but not very nice.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

Just reading the last posts and thought Id weigh in.

Now, in all eccense, saying that you dont care how she felt and you feel her feelings are irrelevent to you and others is basically saying that your feelings are irrelevent and should not be taken into consideration either.

We did go outside and wore our shoes outside for gym and all that. And its irrelevent because now they can wear shoes form day one.

Amanda

[Perrigaud]

Who's the asshole who's pretending to be me? I don't have an umulate "u". Anyone who brought that shit is just plain stupid. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-05-05 00:04 ]

[Perrigaud]

Timoclea: I wouldn't know child abuse if it bit me in the ass? Ok. Sure. And you wouldn't be able to tell the truth between a genuine teen that has been truly abused and another who is just yanking your chain because they know how to reach your soft spot.  Shoes? They weren't thing slippers that might as well have been socks. They were actually soccer sandals (mine were at least). We went out but not to the point where sandals are completely unacceptable.

Antigen: Did I suck up what was happening to me and accepted it as help or was I brainwashed? I was neither. I did a lot of things that didn't help my situation as a teen. The way I viewed life and people were so wrong. I was given a chance to work through the emotional wounds I had. I was helped with the way I looked at my life. It was help. Take a person who was in love with someone. Maybe that person cheated on them or just didn't love them back. This can cause a lot of hurt. Over time that person will be more and more reluctant to let another in. If they haven't dealt with their past the harder it is for them to let love be. Same thing with other emotional events. In the program my therapist and the girls around me gave me insight and the support I needed to work what I needed out. That to me is help. I'm sure others would call it brainwash. Um sure. Or you could call it another point of view.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-05-04 21:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Just reading the last posts and thought Id weigh in.



Now, in all eccense, saying that you dont care how she felt and you feel her feelings are irrelevent to you and others is basically saying that your feelings are irrelevent and should not be taken into consideration either.



We did go outside and wore our shoes outside for gym and all that. And its irrelevent because now they can wear shoes form day one.



Amanda"

Amanda, my feelings about whatever I experienced as a teen *are* irrelevant to you.  You don't have to live in my head, my feelings don't affect you.

I would hope, that my being essentially a stranger, that you would wish me well (like I wish  you and Perri well) in the same distant way I wish just about everybody well.

But my feelings have no tangible impact on your day to day life because you don't live in my head.

And one troubled teen's feelings don't make a difference to what we do about *other* teens because they don't live in each others' heads either.

That's what I meant.  I wish Perri well, but her feelings about what happened to her are *irrelevant to the issue*---as are my feelings about my own adolescence.

That's the sense in which her feelings are irrelevant--and you are correct, so are mine.

One of my ethical principles is that while I will make my own personal life decisions based on my feelings, and make decisions about interacting with friends and family based on my feelings and how I perceive their feelings, we live in a democracy/republic where policy choices we make affect other people.  One of my principles is that I do not use my feelings or any other single person's feelings for making policy choices that involve the lives of other people.  I think it's wrong to do that.  The only place feelings come into my policy choices that affect others is that I try for the broadest scope for individual choice possible in the rules---so that if the other people directly, individually affected by those rules want to choose something for themselves based on their heart rather than their head, they have leeway to do so.

But just on principle I abhor rules that keep someone else I don't know who doesn't know me from doing something *they* like just because *I* think it's "icky".

When I say Perri's (or some other person's) feelings are irrelevant to the issue, where "the issue" is what rules *other people* should have to follow, that's what I mean---and in the context I was talking about, no, *my* feelings aren't relevant, either.

Timoclea

[Antigen]

Perri, what type of therapy are you talking about? I have a hard time imagining how a real therapist would work within the WWASP program. Based on what the former therapists from CEDU have said, they basically don't have any clout or any ability to protect the kids from the more harmful elements of the toughlove stuff. Are you talking about licensed therapists? Or WWASP trained counselors and peer counceling?

Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798

[Anonymous]

Decca Atkinhead's article explained the role of the "therapist" in TB. His role was to pressure the kid even more, so that it'll be easier to break him/her down. That "therapist" stated his undying love to the program in that article, and said that kids who complain are "manipulators". Typical WWASPie trash.

[Anonymous]

I was at Spring Creek Lodge in Montana. They actually had 'real' therapists, not psychologists or psychiatrists... just a therapist.. not sure about licensing, they seemed more like counselors than anything. Of course they weren't anti program, and they were extremely manipulative. I told my therapist things in confidence and she told the family mother. Things she knew I didn't want the facility to know (that I planned on leaving at 18, etc..) I don't consider them real therapists, even if they do have a license. THey are program hacks, just like the rest of them. There are no independent voices or advocates in the program. Only a limited amount of kids got to go see one. Out of about 300 kids there when I was there, maybe a dozen got to see the therapist for 30 mins a week. There were about 3 different therapists that would come in. They all were contracted out from the local town of Missoula Montana. They would come in about once a week and see the handful of kids they were assigned. They'd bill your parents extra in addition to program costs. THey also had 'adoption group' and some other group that met once a week. Kids who were adopted would go. There's no therapy at these places, because you can't be honest with your therapist. THey aren't too bright either, they are just locals from 'small town america'.

[Anonymous]

HAHAHA. I really thought that was her for a minute.

[Perrigaud]

Therapists at CCM were licensed and there every day. Our group wasn't mediated by a family rep. My therapist was very honest with me. He told me that I needed to be ready to come home. That the program wasn't going to be around once I was out. I told him about how I saw how girls got so caught up in the program that it was no wonder they'd fall flat on their faces when they would get home. He and I talked about how not everything in the program is positive. I would tell him my gripes on the program. He was always honest and kept my confidential discussions confidential unless I said otherwise. He was a former addict. Because of this it was easier to listen to him. He was the one that taught me a lot. Basically the biggest lesson was that I could sit on my ass and feel sorry for myself for all that has happened to me or I could buck up, face it, and move on. That my past was rough but life's too short to live in the shadows. He worked with me to integrate myself back into society. He and I worked through all of my adoption issues. He helped me to stop looking at myself as a failure and horrible person. Think what you want about CCM. What I know is that my therapist helped me stand on my own and leave as my own person rather than a programmed graduate bound for failure for being so dependant on the program.

That's a big problem with the program. When the kids get out they get lost because they got too attatched to the program. They go from having all the structure to not having any. Not only that but the so called "home contracts" I think are not helpful. While in the program the girls make them impossibly hard. When they get home, find they can't follow them they get lost. They think it's hopeless. Some girls have even wanted to return to the program.