cross creek manor

[Anonymous]

That all sounds very cult-ish to me, Perri.

[Perrigaud]

Yes fie on him for teaching me to think for myself. Can't believe he actually had the audacity to help me with my issues. Unbelievable. What horrible man would want to help people with their issues? Who? Well one that is part of a cult. He was just interested in making me really weak and more dependant ob the progra. How to you do that? Tell the girls to realize that everyone has a sob story and that it's not healthy to stay mad at ones self.

Really! I could have said that he took us out to ice cream and movies and that would have some sort of cult flare to it. You all would come up with something outlandish like, "See you were abused because he fed you ice cream in order to gain your trust. If he has your trust he can break you down easily. You're funny! :grin:

[Anonymous]

I don't think the Anon was talking about your therapist, who from what you say seems to have been competent.  The confidentiality is the big thing.

I think he/she was talking about what you observed in the other girls.

Timoclea

[Perrigaud]

If It was really talking about the girls and how dependant they get on the program then yeah it is pretty messed up. The program doesn't do a good enough job integrating the girls back into society. I was lucky enough to have a therapist that worked hard with me on this subject. I knew I didn't want to be so dependant that I couldn't function without the BBS forum or the program. Having 300+ girls around at any given time can be really comfortable. Having a therapist and girls around you telling you you're ok and you'll make it can be addicting. Plus the worse thing that can really happen if you mess up is you go to worksheets (at CCM). Easy. Easy to get used to having people around you all the time. Easy to know that committing suicide is possible but really hard to do (at CCM). It becomes an emotional crutch if people aren't careful. The way to succeed is to keep with the things that bring you to reality and positivity. For example, nowadays instead of holding things in until they explode I talk things out. No use in fighting all the time. I make mistakes of course. The differance nowadays is that I don't really care what other think of me. I don't freak out and think I'm horrible because I made a mistake. Screw that. I am able to work through my bad days. The girls tend to get too into the whole having people around to lift them up. Dependancy is not a good thing. I will make it clear that the girls are told at one point to learn independance from the program.

[bandit1978]

Perri, sorry if I missed any posts you may have made (explaining this), but could you please tell me:

*How old are you and when were you in the program?

*Were you sent there by your parents?  Voluntary or not?

*How long were you there?

*What do you think would have happened to you if you had not gone to the program?

*What exactly were you doing that got you sent there?

By the way, I was also adopted (as an infant).  While at PCS, my therapist always tried to turn this into a big issue, and, for me, at the time, it was not an issue at all.  

Teenagers have enough issues to deal with, and it was difficult enough (for me) to have to deal with the 2 parents who raised me.  The very last thing on my mind was to think about any additional parents.  

What are your thoughts on that?  

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Perri ?
I want to approach you a little differently than everyone else has.  First of all, I want to say I understand your gratitude.  I don?t share it and I do think it has a lot to do with conditioning, but I do believe it is genuine.  I have no interest in taking that away from you.  I?m glad you are happy.

I don?t know what CCM was like.  I was in Tranquility Bay and Casa by the Sea for roughly two years.  I can promise you that all the worst things you have heard about the facility in Jamaica are true.  Do not doubt this.  The fact that countless congruent and unrelated allegations have been made should be enough evidence for you to believe in their validity.  Do not make the mistake of assuming that your experience at CCM is universal for WWASP.  (Remember, results do not lie.  The fact that several of these places have been closed down, the owners charged, and lawsuits filed should say enough.  Obviously, something is not working.  If the United States Congress, the Attorney General, foreign governments, and the FBI have taken steps towards fighting WWASP, something is definitely wrong.)

That being said, I was never restrained or physically abused, other than malnourishment neglect.  I attribute this to blind luck and a little wit and the fact that I entered the program at sixteen.  Generally, the older kids didn?t get restrained at TB.  This had to do with maturity.  (A thirteen-year-old kid isn?t going to be able to handle the structure.)  

I can?t pretend that no one was or is being harmed if I wasn?t.  Children are being systematically harmed.  While I was there, I saw the program accept mentally retarded and ill children without any concern as to whether or not they had the capability to care for them.  I watched a brilliant staff in Jamaica try to use a heavy and brutal hand to cure a student?s Tourettes Syndrome.  During my stay, at least three students required surgery to repair severely damaged limbs.  None of them were injured during an incident in which they were out of control.  They were restrained for breaking minor rules.  I saw restraints used to elicit information, one time to find out who stole a pen.  I saw staff take part in restraint parties to pass the time.  Recently, it has come to light that a staff member ? a Mr. Grant ? was raping and molesting boys in his care.  The girl that killed herself in Jamaica did so while attending class on THE ROOF of a two-story building and was being observed by no more than three, young, uneducated and poorly trained locals.  None of this should have happened.  But it did and it is still happening.  Just because you and I escaped intact doesn?t mean we should condone any of this.

I also want you to take a critical look at your definition of brainwashing.  Think about it.  What is the purpose of brainwashing?  Is it about religion?  Is it about strengthening a cult?  No.  It?s about control.  The concepts taught in the seminars are derived from a non-religious cult.  This cult ? Lifespring ? as I understand it, used basically the same seminars we attended to convince people to pledge allegiance to their organization, eventually extorting massive sums of money from them.  (Keep in mind that the techniques used are Maoist in nature.)  David Gilcrease was a member of Lifespring.  The cult eventually face legal action and was shut down.  

Now the purpose of the brainwashing/cult presence in WWASP is to persuade customers to pledge blind allegiance.  The people that run WWASP know that there are countless families in America that are in crisis and in desperate need of help.  They know they will do anything and pay anything for help.  They also know that people in this position can be easily manipulated and coerced into believing anything, given the right conditions.  They know they are easy to control and very susceptible to brainwashing.  WWASP has found a market for selling the illusion of happy families and they are doing it in the most cost effective manner ? brainwashing.  It is commonly known that the effects of brainwashing last only three to six months after separation from the group.  Isn?t it odd that that?s exactly how long our warranty lasts upon release?  WWASP is nothing more than a money making monster, exploiting people in crisis for profit while showing no concern for welfare of the children they are doing this do.  

Please don?t be so selfish as consider only your well being.  Far more of us are harmed than helped.  

By the way? please read the overview of a brainwashing system that I will post following this.  It will surprise you.

Ryan Pink

[Anonymous]

The tactics used to create undue psychological and social influence, often by means involving anxiety and stress, fall into seven main categories.

TACTIC 1
Increase suggestibility and "soften up" the individual through specific hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as:Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills, Excessive exact repetition of routine activities, Sleep restriction and/or Nutritional restriction.

TACTIC 2
Establish control over the person's social environment, time and sources of social support by a system of often-excessive rewards and punishments. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered.

TACTIC 3
Prohibit disconfirming information and non supporting opinions in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.

TACTIC 4
Make the person re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control and defense mechanisms. The subject is guided to reinterpret his or her life's history and adopt a new version of causality.

TACTIC 5
Create a sense of powerlessness by subjecting the person to intense and frequent actions and situations which undermine the person's confidence in himself and his judgment.

TACTIC 6
Create strong aversive emotional arousals in the subject by use of nonphysical punishments such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques.

TACTIC 7
Intimidate the person with the force of group-sanctioned secular psychological threats. For example, it may be suggested or implied that failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequences such as physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.

These tactics of psychological force are applied to such a severe degree that the individual's capacity to make informed or free choices becomes inhibited. The victims become unable to make the normal, wise or balanced decisions which they most likely or normally would have made, had they not been unknowingly manipulated by these coordinated technical processes. The cumulative effect of these processes can be an even more effective form of undue influence than pain, torture, drugs or the use of physical force and physical and legal threats.

[cherish wisdom]

I'd like to encourage Ryan to get a name here. Your journalistic accounts of Tranquility Bay were astounding. Keep up the good work....

But this is far from demonstrating that the authorities must interpose to suppress these vices by commercial prohibitions, nor is it by any means evident that such intervention on the part of the government is really capable of suppressing them or that, even if this end could be attained, it might not therewith open up a Pandora's box of other dangers, no less mischievous than alcoholism and morphinism.
http://www.mises.org/liberal/ch1sec11.asp' target='_new'>Ludwig Von Mises

[Perrigaud]

Ryan,
 I never claimed that no one was getting harmed in the program. I am aware it happened. I was at CBS for 9 months and aggree that that was one of the worst experiences that I have been through. My parents switched me to CCM.
I don't doubt for one minute TB was bad. I heard horror stories of that place. Glad I wasn't sent there.
Amanda and I both realize abuse happens. We are against that. In fact I aggree that the seminars need to either be changed or taken away. I aggree and applaud the shut down of CBS. It was about compliancy of the rules. Yes we needed to learn to follow rules but they were rediculous. Rules about asking to spit, look outside of the line, look outside. I personally got nothing done there due to the fact that I was too focused on not receiving demerits and there was no real focus on my emotional problems.
I also aggree that the staff members need to go to special training of some sort. That way they could avoid losing their cool and harming a child.
I know that just because it didn't happen to me doesn't mean it didn't happen to others. In my facility I never witnessed it. Selfish? I'll take that into consideration.
So everyone knows that I'm greatful that it helped me. Old news. Now I will focus on what is going on that is harmful.
You're right. I am done preaching that it helped me. Everyone knows that. I am also here to focus on the negative. Mainly seminars, needing to not accept those who need a different kind of help , integrating those who are already in the program into society, eliminating the dependancy on the program, training the staff.
Reformation is in need.


Facts:
Age of entering program: 16
Current Age: 22
Sent: By parents
Length: 22 months
What Would've Happened Had I Not Gone: Don't know. Maybe I would've gotten worse maybe I would've straightened out. I don't know so I'm not going to pretend to know.
What Got Me There: Physically abusing peers at school, physically abusing family members, kicked out of 2 schools, running away, depressed.

Adoption: Adoption can be difficult to deal with. Some deal with it just fine. Other's don't. It's a proven fact that a high percentage of inmates are adopted. Anyhow, my brother was adopted as well. He has never had too big of a problem with it. I did. I felt empty. I think that this is a hard topic.

[Nihilanthic]

The one thing that got my attention about your post, Perrigaud, is this:
"I personally got nothing done there due to the fact that I was too focused on not receiving demerits and there was no real focus on my emotional problems."

Thats part of what I mean about taking the behavior mod bullshit out of a 'program' and making it into a 'retreat' with therapy and actual education, instead of an austere behavior modification(brainwashing) facility with clumbsy therapy and self-teaching out of a damn book!

Being broken down, destroyed on the inside, or forced to follow 'structure' is... oing doing those three things. Its not going to help with therapy at all.

Distance from family can help some kids, yeah, but the other bullshit I'd have a hard time believing helped anyone except a rather twisted, submissive child.

My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it. An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic.
--Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author

[Antigen]

Perri, I also read the anon's comments about cultishness the way Timo did. And, together w/ what Amanda said about the difference between the college program and the regular treatment, I'm even more convinced that you dodged a bullet, and not a little due to your own poise and fortitude.

But you do understand that CBS is as much a part of WWASP as CCM, right? I mean, you didn't really go from one program to another so much as one facility to another within the same program. At CCM, there were the strict and somewhat arbitrary (but not really) rules and constant needling of various kinds. But I'm sure the fact that CBS was a possability never went too far from the fore.

Forgive me for going  :roll: (no, really, it's a bad habit that I'm trying to break) when I read about reforming WWASP programs. I'm thoroughly convinced that they can't be reformed because, like a stone cold junkie, they simply don't want to be reformed.

You're right. The dependency issue is basic. But that is the essense of the Program. Take away the dependency, the rediculous rules and other damaging aspects of it and what you have left (in some cases, not many like yours) might be a wonderful program, but not profitable. I'm w/ Chris on that one. A retreat w/ maybe a therapeutic element (depending on how one defines therapy) and an educational componant. But certainly not total isolation from everything and everyone you ever knew.

Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln

[Antigen]

Ryan, welcome! The intellectual quality of this forum has risen by your participation. Glad to have you hanging around in my rough little barroom. Hope you hang around.  :nworthy:

Timo, please check your PMs.

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark.  The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.  
--Plato

[Perrigaud]

Yes Ginger. I know that CBS and CCM are under the same WWASP organization. However they are run differently. I would know that better than most who have been to only one.
Little to my poise and fortitude? Ok. Sure. Even if I hadn't gone to the college program I would've done well. But sure, I dodged a bullet.
Personally the isolation felt good for me. I wanted to run away from them anyway. Amanda will agree with me as far as I didn't want to be around my family and even so-called friends then. Now I do. But I needed to figure things out.

[bandit1978]

So why enter a war-zone just to get away and "figure things out"?  Do you think you would have been more healthy and a more positive experience to go to a regular boarding school instead?  Or maybe on an extended yoga retreat?

[Anonymous]

He is exagerating, because he wants to get back at the program for his being there 2 years.