Methods and Techniques

[Troll Control]

On 2005-12-19 09:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I think it depended on the counselor, when I left HLA they told me that they would fire my counselor if I came back. Then they fired him and I still refused to go back, they (higher staff) told me how sorry they were for the way he treated me. My folks weren't happy that I sent almost three months sleeping on the floor because I was restricting my food. That was one of the reasons I was there, don't fucking punish me for issues I came to fix. I think the abuse, if any was mental. I was fucked up after HLA though, lots of trust issues. I was like, I'm not going anywhere or admitting anything-somebody's going to come into my room at 3am and take me away! People just looked at me like I was crazy, there like your eighteen, nobody's going to put you away.

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuse ... 2193964187



Stew, some of what you said is true--you're right, we do have the opportunity to choose our own paths. I believe in that whole hartedly, but HLA made me feel like every choice I made was manipulated by authority. I felt like I could never really trust the motives of staff, were they making me stand out in the cold rain late at night because they really wanted to heal my wounds?? I went to another program after HLA, they were horrified by the stories I had from HLA. You can't punish someone's pain out of them.

****



Okay, can any of you apologists defend this? Please post any research that would support standing in the cold rain late at night or sleeping on the floor for 3 months as an appropriate treatment for an eating disorder.



This young woman is wiser than her degreed counselors and the policy makers at HLA when she states, "You can't punish someone's pain out of them."

"

Talk about unethical practices and manipulation.  "We'll fire your counselor if you come back"?  Are you fucking JOKING me?  If they committed a firable offense (which they CLEARLY DID), why were they not summarily shitcanned?  What the hell does a patient have to do with these decisions?  Why would management use that as a manipulation chip?

Every new story I hear out of this place is more disturbing than the last.

[Anonymous]

That's because 90% of the things said on this sight are lies.

[RobertBruce]

90% is that a fact?

Please list them off one by one. We'll address each and every thing you feel as a lie.

Get ready to look really really stupid.

(Not that thats anythign new for you or you owner)

[Troll Control]

On 2005-12-19 10:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"That's because 90% of the things said on this sight are lies."

Well, that's debatable.  I'm pretty sure that both sides engage in their fair share of guilding the lily.  

The truth is somewhere in the middle, which, in my opinion, is cause for immediate concern.

So to get some meaningful dialogue started, instead of affrontery, why don't you tell us about the 10% of the content on this site with which you do in fact agree.

What types of abuse claimed by former patients can you verify or enlighten everyone about?  Is the "program" effective at achieving long-range improvement for its participants?  Have you read the studies done by the Surgeon General of the
United States that conclude RTC's have been shown, through longitudinal studies (NOT "surveys" of "satisfied" parents) to be at best ineffective and at worst terribly dangerous?

What else can you do to help to refresh the discourse?

Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

I will agree that Restrictions used to have there own meal, instead of eating what the rest of the students eat which they do now.

I will agree that students on restriction have to do some hard work, but some of the things written here are wildly exaggerated.  

Is the program effective in the long run?  I have not seen any longitudinal studies done to fully answer this.  I do know that the kids that wanted help, got help.  I hear, on a regular basis, from former students that HLA saved their lives, even though they hated it at the time.

And, though I don't want to get into the debate again, HLA is a FAR cry from an RTC.  I know people that don't like HLA try to put it in that categorie, but any resonable human being that has observed both HLA and an RTC immediately know that is not what HLA is.

I have not seen the Surgeon Genreals study.  Please site the source so that I can read it.

[Anonymous]

No one knows who you are and with what authority you speak for the program, but if you want to state your anonymous opinion....

What do you see the differences between and RTC and HLA to be, specifically?

Which restriction 'tasks' are exaggerated?
What is the daily routine for a kid on restrictions?

Google Surgeon General's report on RTCs. Although, I was thinking that it was the Inspector General. I know that office put out a report expressing concern about the inadequate oversight of residential programs.
You really should do the research yourself, but if you can't manage to find it, let me know and I'll hook you up.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-12-19 12:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I will agree that Restrictions used to have there own meal, instead of eating what the rest of the students eat which they do now.



I will agree that students on restriction have to do some hard work, but some of the things written here are wildly exaggerated.  



Is the program effective in the long run?  I have not seen any longitudinal studies done to fully answer this.  I do know that the kids that wanted help, got help.  I hear, on a regular basis, from former students that HLA saved their lives, even though they hated it at the time.



And, though I don't want to get into the debate again, HLA is a FAR cry from an RTC.  I know people that don't like HLA try to put it in that categorie, but any resonable human being that has observed both HLA and an RTC immediately know that is not what HLA is.



I have not seen the Surgeon Genreals study.  Please site the source so that I can read it."

Can you tell us how you get your information about HLA?  In what capacity are you associated with the treatment center?

[Anonymous]

>>>>>>>>>>>> I will agree that Restrictions used to have there own meal, instead of eating what the rest of the students eat which they do now<<<<<

Is that you way of saying "Yes we do ration food for kids on restriction." Dont mince words or try to "manipulate".
 :grin:  :grin:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>I will agree that students on restriction have to do some hard work, but some of the things written here are wildly exaggerated. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Again knowing full well this is in fact illegal. But please do state which things are "wildly exaggerated".

>>>>>>>>>>>Is the program effective in the long run? I have not seen any longitudinal studies done to fully answer this. I do know that the kids that wanted help, got help. I hear, on a regular basis, from former students that HLA saved their lives, even though they hated it at the time.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Really? Cause I know many former students who had problems at the time, yet were made worse by HLA. Maybe they wanted help but HLA couldnt or better put wouldnt provide it. How about the kids who didnt need help? Did they benefit from it? Did HLA save their lives as well? How can you comment on so many kids whom you dont speak with?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>And, though I don't want to get into the debate again, HLA is a FAR cry from an RTC. I know people that don't like HLA try to put it in that categorie, but any resonable human being that has observed both HLA and an RTC immediately know that is not what HLA is. <<<<<<<<<

Is that right? You dont want to get into the debate again? Well then why did you bring it up? I mean we posted the GA definition of what an RTC is. They look preety close to me. If its not though what is it? Is it a traditional boarding school? Is it a theraputic boarding school? Perhaps it your magical "both" category. How about a traditional theraputic boarding school? Tell us what it is.

>>>>>>>>>>>>I have not seen the Surgeon Genreals study. Please site the source so that I can read it.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Surgeon General? Did he do a study? Did someone mention one? Are you high?

[RobertBruce]

Oh my apologies the above post was mine.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-12-19 12:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I will agree that Restrictions used to have there own meal, instead of eating what the rest of the students eat which they do now.



I will agree that students on restriction have to do some hard work, but some of the things written here are wildly exaggerated.  



Is the program effective in the long run?  I have not seen any longitudinal studies done to fully answer this.  I do know that the kids that wanted help, got help.  I hear, on a regular basis, from former students that HLA saved their lives, even though they hated it at the time.



And, though I don't want to get into the debate again, HLA is a FAR cry from an RTC.  I know people that don't like HLA try to put it in that categorie, but any resonable human being that has observed both HLA and an RTC immediately know that is not what HLA is.



I have not seen the Surgeon Genreals study.  Please site the source so that I can read it."

Well, I worked at two RTC's.  Yours and a state-funded one.  There is no difference in their purpose.  

The big difference is that state-funded RTC's are usually grossly underfunded and have a lot of poor kids in them.  HLA is no different, except for the average socioeconomic status of their patients.

Also, HLA claims to treat some pretty serious psycho/social disorders and provision of that high of a level of care comes from RTC's not boarding schools.  Are you saying that HLA is taking on all of these difficult cases without the resources or intention to treat them?

[Anonymous]

I meant where can I find the study?

[Troll Control]

On 2005-12-19 12:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

">>>>>>>>>>>> I will agree that Restrictions used to have there own meal, instead of eating what the rest of the students eat which they do now<<<<<



Is that you way of saying "Yes we do ration food for kids on restriction." Dont mince words or try to "manipulate".

 :grin:  :grin:



>>>>>>>>>>>>>I will agree that students on restriction have to do some hard work, but some of the things written here are wildly exaggerated. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



Again knowing full well this is in fact illegal. But please do state which things are "wildly exaggerated".



>>>>>>>>>>>Is the program effective in the long run? I have not seen any longitudinal studies done to fully answer this. I do know that the kids that wanted help, got help. I hear, on a regular basis, from former students that HLA saved their lives, even though they hated it at the time.<<<<<<<<<<<<<



Really? Cause I know many former students who had problems at the time, yet were made worse by HLA. Maybe they wanted help but HLA couldnt or better put wouldnt provide it. How about the kids who didnt need help? Did they benefit from it? Did HLA save their lives as well? How can you comment on so many kids whom you dont speak with?



>>>>>>>>>>>>>And, though I don't want to get into the debate again, HLA is a FAR cry from an RTC. I know people that don't like HLA try to put it in that categorie, but any resonable human being that has observed both HLA and an RTC immediately know that is not what HLA is. <<<<<<<<<



Is that right? You dont want to get into the debate again? Well then why did you bring it up? I mean we posted the GA definition of what an RTC is. They look preety close to me. If its not though what is it? Is it a traditional boarding school? Is it a theraputic boarding school? Perhaps it your magical "both" category. How about a traditional theraputic boarding school? Tell us what it is.



>>>>>>>>>>>>I have not seen the Surgeon Genreals study. Please site the source so that I can read it.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



Surgeon General? Did he do a study? Did someone mention one? Are you high?"

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/mentalhealth/chapter3/sec7.html

"...a large longitudinal six-state study of children in publicly funded RTCs found at the 7-year followup that 75 percent of youth treated at an RTC had been either readmitted to a mental health facility (about 45 percent) or incarcerated in a correctional setting (about 30 percent) (Greenbaum et al., 1998)."

Hardly a 96% success rate.

These programs are blatant ripoffs of desperate parents.

[Anonymous]

Did this study do any comparative studies, matching these kids up against kids with similar issues who received no help.  That is where you will find value of a program.  You have to compare kids that need treatment and don't get it, to kids who need treatment and do get it.  Otherwise you are not viewing the situation clearly.

[RobertBruce]

Thats not what you asked.

This proves that RTC (HLA included) do not have a 96% success rate as was claimed. The study isnt comparing against kids who did not enter RTC's as there is no way to conduct such a study.

Are you going to survey every kid in America that ever had a problem. Be my guest the numbers will favor our claim even better.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-19 13:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Did this study do any comparative studies, matching these kids up against kids with similar issues who received no help.  That is where you will find value of a program.  You have to compare kids that need treatment and don't get it, to kids who need treatment and do get it.  Otherwise you are not viewing the situation clearly."

Spin, deny, perry, block!!  :lol: