PURE & WWASPS

[Anonymous]

What does all this mean?  I'm looking through a lot of the old posts and see a lot of finger pointing by PURE.  I want to know who they refer to, if they use the same therapeutic model as Cross Creek/or other WWASPS programs.  What the tuition is vs. Cross Creek and what those programs have for the family.  It sounds like from their website, they have somewhat the same purpose as WWASPS, to bring families back together.

I asked for information from them regarding a friend's child that needs intensive therapy/medication and they sent me a notice saying that they found the perfect wilderness program!  Not cool. They don't even share what they do with people asking for help.

I know this has been asked in other posts that I've seen, probably more than I've seen.  What is the secret? Just show us a partial list, so you don't appear to be covering up similar programs that pay you, vs. WWASPS not paying you.   Every other educational consultant will share this info, but they aren't really educational consultants, right? Anyway, here's an interesting site or two.

http://www.wwaspsrebuttal.com
http://www.purerebuttal.com

That so called winning court case - where can we find out about what really happened.  I don't get that it was about proving abuse, but about being able to slander as long as someone says they said it was true?  I'm sorry, but I'm confused.

[Anonymous]

http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/kbobservations.pdf

http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/retrialdenied.pdf

As if you really want to talk about any of this.

 :roll:

[Anonymous]

it means for information pertaining to P.U.R.E. you need to contact the OWNER / FOUNDER; Sue Scheff.  as far as i know she is the sole owner and operator of this establishment?  i beleive isac's has the court documents to support the case?  you may want to contact them concerning the case and P.U.R.E.'s school list.

[Anonymous]

The Internet is even more unreliable. It is often a haven for fabrications, lies, biases, rumors, and gossip. This is because anyone can post anything on the Internet as factual even though inaccurate or even down right dishonest. Most forums don't require you to even identify yourself nor do they monitor or preview any postings for accuracy or honesty.

 

The current plan orchestrated by the Competitor and the Child?s Rights Activist is to have a few former students file a lawsuit.

 

The goal of filing a lawsuit is to attempt to give the allegations creditability in the minds of the general public where there is actually no creditability to these claims. For example: The allegations are from a few struggling former teens with maligned backgrounds, obvious motives, and long histories of lying, dishonesty, exaggerations, and deception. Countering their allegations are the numerous other students and staff that were there during the time the allegations were suppose to have happened. Additionally, each School and Programs have at the facility on a daily basis a number of professionals including teachers, therapist (many who are independently contracted by the parents), nurses, visiting doctors, and others who are all under a professional and legal responsibility to report any abuse. All of these professionals are trained to identify abuse or potential abuse. The many Professionals are happy to testify concerning the quality of care at each of the facilities and that there have been no need for reports of abuse made by them or others who work closely with the facilities on a daily basis

[Anonymous]

Bottom-line: Which is more credible a few struggling former students with an axe to grind and history of dishonesty OR the numerous testimonies of objective students, staff, parents, professionals, and Independent Third Party Agencies. The answer is quite obvious, for this reason the WWASP believes the organizers of the lawsuit don't really believe they can win but just want to file the suits to try to damage the WWASP Reputation and to appear more credible and justified when they have to face a jury for their actions in the Defamation and Business Interference Suit brought against them by the WWASP.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-20 13:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

The answer is quite obvious, for this reason the WWASP believes the organizers of the lawsuit don't really believe they can win but just want to file the suits to try to damage the WWASP Reputation and to appear more credible and justified when they have to face a jury for their actions in the Defamation and Business Interference Suit brought against them by the WWASP.

Yeah, that worked out real well for them LAST time didn't it. :roll:  :roll: They tried to sue for slander and didn't win.  Obviously the "stories" that were being told about them had some truth or WWASP would have WON their suit.

[Nihilanthic]

"The Internet is even more unreliable. It is often a haven for fabrications, lies, biases, rumors, and gossip. This is because anyone can post anything on the Internet as factual even though inaccurate or even down right dishonest. Most forums don't require you to even identify yourself nor do they monitor or preview any postings for accuracy or honesty."

So says the anonymous  :wstupid:

Thats funny. Lots of kids with no 'struggling' or 'history of dishonesty' at all also say that, and the students, staff, parents, and 'third party agences' have a conflict of interest - more often than not money. Plenty of students WITH a history of dishonesty come out of the program and say things FOR it.

So, where does the logic train get off again?

Impiety: Your irreverence toward my deity.
--Ambrose Bierce

[BuzzKill]

Nihilanthic
The anon wwasp is just posting blocks of text from the PURE rebuttel site. They do this now and then.

It is just a transparent attempt to defame Sue and PURE with out having to defend their own actions.

And with regard to the questions about Sue and PURE - the other anon has a good point - If you have legitimate questions; and aren't just looking to harrass and hassle; why not call and ask Sue?

If you want to know how she vets the programs she refers to, ask her. I don't think its a big secrete just because the info isn't splashed all over Fornits. Sue is not a fan of Fornits, ya know. She isn't likely to open up to sarcastic demeaning questions and remarks - but she is very approachable.

On the occasions I have had questions, I have found her willing enough to explaine.

We don't always agree; But I have always felt I understood her position.

I doubt you and she would agree on every issue of concern, (if any) but you would not find her shy about explaining her point of view.

Lots of people are grateful PURE exist and provides alternatives to WWASP and like programs; and while I know the use of escorts is extremely controversial; many feel they are on occasion essential. I know you and many other strongly disagree. I am not trying to debate the problem with you - only to explain there are those grateful someone is trying to provide an alternative sorce for a needed service.

And as for the criticism she is just out to make a buck in the business - I can tell you, after knowing her for over two years, I do not believe this is the case. I am of the opinion she began PURE to provide families with an alternative source of information; and as an alternative resource for parents who have troubled teens they are very worried about. The average family looking at program options has tried everything else there is to try and found it all useless.  I Know you and others disagree - but like it or not - these families are going to try and find a program in the hope it will help where nothing else could. If it turns out that one of the programs PURE refers to is less than well managed and safe - I believe she would be responsible about it. I trust her to be so, because I am confident it isn't about the money with her.

Sue does not need PURE as a source of income.  The money is not the motive. It really is more of a heart felt passion to try and make a difference for the better. She didn't want to talk about the problem without providing an alternative - and I do honestly believe this is why PURE exist. My opinion, based on my experience of Sue.

It is true, I don't know much about PURE. Never dealt with PURE. But I do know Sue. She and I have had our ups and downs. At times, we have been at each others throats. But she has remained true to the corse in our common goal - and I have found her a trustworthy and passionate advocate for the kids.

I'm not trying to convince you she is all sweetness and light - just that you should be aware she is far more complex that her detractors would have you believe - and her heart for the kids is genuine.

[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-01-20 15:45 ]

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-20 15:40:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"Nihilanthic
It is just a transparent attempt to defame Sue and PURE with out having to defend their own actions.

No, I think you've got it backward. They go to some effort to establish the idea that WWASP and PURE are pretty much the same. In their view (aka alternate reality) that's not defamatory, that's complimentary.

They then go on to defame and disparage all the kids, all the parents, all the journalists and everybody else who has stated by word and deed that WWASP is not kosher as being either affiliated w/ or just like Sue.

Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America's] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

--John Quincy Adams, Speech to the U.S. House of Representatives [July 4, 1821]

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

Well Put Ginger. Really well put.
 ::cheers::

[Nihilanthic]

Buzzkill, even if her heart IS in the right place, you can love people to death.

Frankly I'm too cynical to give a damn about someone's perceptions of her motives. The ACTIONS are what I care about. No offence, of course.

PURE is funded by schools and they openly state that. MORE THAN LIKELY, THOSE ARE WHERE THE KIDS ARE REFERRED TO.

She doesnt say which programs, doesnt say how they work or operate, just that they have behavior mod or tough love or boot camp or whatever programs and its ALTERNATIVE TO WWASPS.

They're STILL the same sort of programs! I've seen nothing that would indicate how they operate in detail, at all! How about some friggin' details?

Its still 'the industry'. For all we know the same kind of crap goes on just with a different flavor.

This is a copypaste of their list o' programs:
    *    Teen Addiction
    * Teen violence/Rage/Anger
    * Teen Truancy
    * Teen Substance Abuse (Drug &
      Alcohol Abuse)
    * Teen Depression
    * Teen Gangs
    * Teen Runaways
    * Teen Suicide
    * Teen Cults
    * Troubled Teens, Problem Teens
    * Struggling Teens At Risk Teens
    * Underachiever, Lacks Motivation
    * ADD/ADHD/LD/ODD and Bipolar Teens
    * Peer Pressure
    * Defiant, Disrespectful and Rebellious Teens

 
   

    * Military Schools and Academies
    * Behavior Modification Programs
    * Alternative Schools and Programs
    * Residential Treatment facilities
    * Therapeutic Boarding Schools
    * Boarding Schools for Struggling Teens
    * Tough Love
    * Adoption
 
So, Buzzkill, you tell me why I'd be suspicious. These mystery programs are paying off pure for referrals.

The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.".
--George Washington, Revolutionary War General and U.S. President

[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-01-20 17:56 ]

[Anonymous]

Apparently the jury felt the video the Mexican Government provided substantiated the so call slander,defamation.

Get your story straight.

The facts,video ,testimonies of employees  substantiated the claims of mistreatment.

[Anonymous]

http://www.purerebuttal.com/WWASPS_PRESS_REBUTTAL.pdf

This is one that I've not seen.  Does this mean that PURE brought in people that were not affiliated with WWASPS as well as some that were? Can someone shed a little more light on the "Let Freedom Ring rebuttal?"  Did the jury hear from those that were never abused or even saw abuse?  Or wasn't that allowed?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-20 19:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"http://www.purerebuttal.com/WWASPS_PRESS_REBUTTAL.pdf



This is one that I've not seen.  Does this mean that PURE brought in people that were not affiliated with WWASPS as well as some that were? Can someone shed a little more light on the "Let Freedom Ring rebuttal?"  Did the jury hear from those that were never abused or even saw abuse?  Or wasn't that allowed? "

They're talking about High Impact.  WWASP pretends High Impact was nothing to do with them but an employee at the trial testified that it was and that he had been instructed to pretend otherwise.  Funny how the rebuttal glosses over that bit.

[BuzzKill]

HIGH IMPACT BOOT CAMP
Baja California, Mexico
Dwayne Lee, Admissions Coordinator ?
Parent Resources Hotline
Hurricane, Utah
800-793-5156
[I called their web site number to ask some questions about the Parent Resources Hotline, identifying myself as an educational consultant. The person answering the phone informed me he was only authorized to send a packet of information and did not answer any of my questions. The packet I received included a photocopy of a letter from Dwayne Lee of Parent Resources Hotline, a Sample Daily Schedule for WWASP Programs, a brochure for High Impact, a Video Tape and a brochure for the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs: Casa by the Sea, Carolina Springs Academy, Cross Creek Academy, Spring Creek Lodge and Tranquility Bay. Apparently Parent Resources Hotline exclusively markets High Impact and WWASP programs.-Lon]

High Impact describes itself as a 28 day+ boot camp for defiant teens ?that is well defined and well structured. This experience is designed to help teens replace destructive attitudes and behaviors with new perspectives and direction in their lives. This is accomplished by focusing on the three R?s of Reality, Respect, and Responsibility.? One of their stated goals ?is to help participants gain an appreciation for home and family by learning to take total and complete responsibility for themselves.? They use a ranch setting ?along with the rigors of an authentic military type schedule?.? The typical schedule presented starts with ?Wakeup? at 6:00 AM, and ?Shutdown? at 8:00 PM, including four hours of ?Marching? and six hours of ?Worksheets.? The remaining time is devoted to Hygiene, Inspection and meals. ?Staff members maintain 24-hour ?round the clock? supervision and interaction with participants. They teach values, acceptable behavioral norms and proper respect for authority?.Our ?gender separated? compound? is designed to create an environment with ?minimal distraction.?

The program describes its short-term program as a ?wake-up? call for the teen, that parents can use to buy some time while deciding whether to enroll their child in their long-term program. The audiotape sent with the promotional packet consisted of a number of testimonials by parents and ex-students, mostly, however, apparently referring to the long-term WWASP programs rather than High Impact. A price list was included for the various WWASP programs, but none for High Impact.


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TEEN HELP IN THE NEWS
(December 26, 2001)  Lou Kilzer, a staff reporter for the Rocky Mountain News, writes of a girl and other children being pulled from a boot camp program in Mexico called High Impact, and alleges the program had deplorable conditions and is closely associated with Teen Help and the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs (WWASP).  In a statement released on the Strugglingteens.com discussion Board, Ken Kay, President of WWASP asserts High Impact is not owned or marketed by Teen Help, and the ?article was riddled with blatant inaccuracies and falsehoods.?  Lou Kilzer has written several articles in the past critical of WWASP and Teen Help.