PURE & WWASPS

[Anonymous]

I feel confident the programs she would refer to are not anything like The Program.  




Based on what Karen, "blind faith" or "blind trust." Is that where your confidence comes from?




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Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#77052
 
 
Anonymous
Unregistered User My two cents
Posted: 2005-01-21 12:30:00  
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 Based on what Karen, "blind faith", "blind trust?" How is it that you are so confident that the schools PURE refers to are not anything like "The Program?"


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Karen, you are a lot like Narvin in that when the questions get tough, you stop anwering.  What gives? How can you be so confident in something (PURE's programs) if you admit to knowing nothing about them? Is that not "blind faith?"

(Of cource when refering to be a lot like Narvin, that applies if that was truely Narvin posting in the other thread.)

[Anonymous]

There is a bit more to the lyrics:

Little Boxes
by Malvina Reynolds

Little boxes on the hillside, Little boxes made of tickytacky
Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes all the same
There's a green one and a pink one and a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same.

And the people in the houses all went to the university
Where they were put in boxes and they came out all the same,
And there's doctors and there's lawyers, and business executives
And they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same.

And they all play on the golf course and drink their martinis dry,
And they all have pretty children and the children go to school
And the children go to summer camp and then to the university
Where they are put in boxes and they come out all the same.

And the boys go into business and marry and raise a family
In boxes made of ticky tacky and they all look just the same.

[BuzzKill]

'Bout this:

Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=30#77259

and her other goofy, harping posts:

I try to ignore this Bock Bitch, but an honest question, from an honest person, is seldom ignored by me.

Besides, I think my post on this thread clearly answer the question. If this goofy harpy can't understand what's been said, why say more?

And Bock - you do realize the bag will be no protection if your legal problems end you up on trial in court, don't you?

[Anonymous]

I'm not Carey and I really WOULD like an answer to that question.  It seems rather important.  Seriously, I'm asking a legitimate question, if you've already posted about it could I please have a link to it?  I don't even know much about whatever is going on between WWASP and PURE...I just would like an answer, please.

[BuzzKill]

I don't believe you.
And I don't give a ratts ass what you want.

[Anonymous]

Well, that's really sad then.  I can't stand Carey for the way she comes across to people.  I was more 'on your side' (for lack of a better term)....I just wanted a little more information.

[Anonymous]

Come on Karen, you have to admit it is a good question.  Why are you so confident in PURE's programs if you don't know anything about them. Is your confidence not based on "blind trust" and "blind faith?"  

Give it a try.  Be a good sport!  Just admit it and move on.

[Carey]

"And Bock - you do realize the bag will be no protection if your legal problems end you up on trial in court, don't you?"

Good morning Buzzard.  What have I done wrong?

Oh yeah and while we are talking let me ask you, how is your friend Craig?  You know, the other program beneficiary.[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2005-01-22 08:51 ]

[Anonymous]

Besides, I think my post on this thread clearly answer the question.

Where does it "clearly" answer the question.  Could you please show me?  Just cut and paste the answer to:



Based on what Karen, "blind faith" or "blind trust." Is that where your confidence comes from?  Answer specifically why you are confident in PURE's programs if you know nothing about them.  If you have never been there and spent anytime there, if you don't know who works there and what their training is, then how is it that you are so confident?  

It sounds like it is because you "trust" or have "faith" in PURE, blind trust and/or blind faith.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-21 07:41:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"Chris:

//They're STILL the same sort of programs! //



Now see, you don't know anything of the sort. You are afraid this might be the case; your suspicious - but you don't Know any such thing.



I feel confident this is not the case. I also do not Know - However - I do Know Sue, and as a result, I feel confident the programs she would refer to are not anything like The Program.



As for why she doesn't list the programs she refers to, I can only speculate - but I can come up with a good reason or two. Mostly, I suspect there is the desire to avoid a bunch of kooks and goof balls harassing them.



Sue has told me she doesn't refer to outdoor adventure programs. Myself, I think Out Ward Bound would be one to consider referring to; but as for all the outward bound wannabees - I agree -far to dangerous.



The manner in which PURE is funded is a source of controversy. I can see both sides and so don't bother to argue the issue either way. Sue is doing what feels right to her, and that's her choice.



As for information anyone might have about abuse taking place in a program you feel PURE refers to; Why not just talk to her about it? Maybe you know something she doesn't; or maybe she can explain why it isn't a legitimate concern. "

Is this the post you're referring to when you say you've answered that question???  Cause I don't see it anywhere in there.

[Anonymous]

The Angry Man

The other day I chanced to meet
An angry man upon the street -
A man of wrath, a man of war,
A man who truculently bore
Over his shoulder, like a lance,
A banner labeled ?Tolerance.?

And when I asked him why he strode
Thus scowling down the human road,
Scowling, he answered, ?I am he
who champions total liberty -
Intolerance being, Ma?am, a state
No tolerant man can tolerate.

When I meet rogues,? he cried,
?Who choose
To cherish oppositional views,
Lady, like this, and in this manner,
I lay about me with my banner -
Till they cry mercy, ma?am.?  His blows
Rained proudly on prospective foes.

Fearful, I turned and left him there,
Still muttering, as he thrashed the air,
?Let the Intolerant beware!?

Phyllis Mc Ginely

[Antigen]

My God! If you could comprehend even the little sanctimonious bit of meaning in that poem... well, maybe you wouldn't fall for every charismatic that comes along.

So what's the answer? Aside from your affection for her, what else comprises your basis for trust in Sue to send kids off to Utah and Mexican programs?

The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.
-- Patrick Henry

[BuzzKill]

Hi Ginger!

I understand the poem very well. Its long been a favorite of mine. I am aware of the apparent irony, but I would argue our differing points of view, have a lot to do with our differing interpretations.

Here on Fornits, who is it gets beat up for cherishing oppositional views?

On another forum, the roles might well be flipped.

But what its about, is the hostility so many feel towards anyone who disagrees with the politically correct, accepted group think; And The subsequent efforts to berate the odd ball into submission.

I personally have no problem with those who disagree with me. I hope I've been clear on that point. I do have problems with the actions of some, the inaction of others, but not with differing points of view.

As for my thoughts on Sue - I have re-read my posts here, and I do think I explained myself well enough. I was not trying to convince you or Chris or anyone to blindly trust Sue, or me, or any body or anything.

I Personally, trust Sue to be responsible, because I know her. I Personally feel her motives are not monetary and that she believes she is providing an essential alternative source of info and assistance. I base this on what I know of her after more than two years of interaction with her; some of which has been heated and oppositional. That's what I base it on.

The only reason I bother to state my point of view, is to let forum readers know there are people who know her, and who view her in a far more positive light than what is typically found on Fornits. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind - just to provide a little equal time, ya might say.

Heres another little poem along the lines of Angry Man

Much madness is divinest sense
to a discerning eye;
Much sense the starkest madness.

'Tis the majority
In this, as all, prevails.

Assent, and you are sane;
Demur - you're straightaway dangerious,
And handled with a chain.

Emily Dickinson

[Anonymous]

Dear Buzzkill,

    Your sincerity is clear but so is how clearly you miss the point.  Let's agree that Sue is sincere and well intentioned.  Let's agree that she believes she is providing a good service. Let's agree that she has done something valuable by helping to expose the reality of WWASP.
     That is not enough because she is also a person who is using her anti waasp marketing model to provide assistance to parents looking for help for their family situation.  She is doing that in a fundamentally dishonest way by not disclosing the programs that she represents and by referring to programs that she is  not qualified to investigate or evaluate. Her egregious misrepresentations about her background on her website alone should be enough to make you suspicious.
    She is part of the community of consultants that make their money from the tough love industry.  She is not part of the community of people who view all such programs cynically until they meet the heavy burden of demonstrating that their "program" is based on research, science or something other then the charisma or charm of the operators or a couple of anecdotal stories from parents happy to have their uncontrollable children out of their homes in what they believe is a safe place.  You can't be in both communities at the same time and her efforts to market her services in the way she does will continue to make her the subject of fair criticism from those of us who have been at this for a while and are justifiably cynical.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-21 07:41:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"Chris:

//They're STILL the same sort of programs! //



Now see, you don't know anything of the sort. You are afraid this might be the case; your suspicious - but you don't Know any such thing. I feel confident this is not the case. I also do not Know -

So, then you're saying that you feel confident that the programs PURE refers to are not the same as THe Program based solely on your trust of Sue?  Is that correct?  You admit you don't know for sure, because she refuses to list them.  Am I reading this correctly?