Illegal for Parents to Snoop on the Kid's Phone Conversation

[Anonymous]

I have looked at all the stupid crap you throw at us on this site, bottom line is i have allot more experience 1st hand with kids than that of some of these people writing your aticles. which i could say you are being brainwashed by but i won't. Again you always change the subject when it seems like you have no reply for something.
This mom had every right and again an obligation as a parent to find out about her daughter and this criminal.The one that cares

[Anonymous]

Really???  YOU have more experience than the National Mental Health Association???  

http://www.nmha.org/children/justjuv/bootcamp.cfm

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-11 06:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I have looked at all the stupid crap you throw at us on this site, bottom line is i have allot more experience 1st hand with kids than that of some of these people writing your aticles. which i could say you are being brainwashed by but i won't. Again you always change the subject when it seems like you have no reply for something.

This mom had every right and again an obligation as a parent to find out about her daughter and this criminal.The one that cares"

Maybe she did.  The fact is that the law in that particular state was drafted with wording that made it do something the legislature didn't intend.  It happens.

That's why very often when you want a new law passed, the legislators are very leery unless you can show them another state with some good case law of how the language of the law is getting interpreted by the courts.  If you can show them another state with the same law and the courts are doing with it what the legislature wants them to do, then a lot of times your own legislature will say, "Okay." and just clone the same language as the other state's law.

The courts didn't say anything one way or another about what was *right* in this case.  That's not their job.  They just said what that particular state's law is.

And the legislature will probably be changing the law.

I don't know whether I would have turned the boyfriend in or not.  It would have depended a lot on the rest of the situation and how dangerous to my kid and the people around him I thought he was.

If it was a stupid impulsive thing and he was getting some kind of help for poor impulse control, I'd probably have blown it off--with misgivings.  If it was a stupid teenage immaturity thing, I probably would have had a long talk with my daughter about it---and possibly said something to him, too, to let him know how very close he came to being busted.  If I thought he was an active and serious danger to others, I'd have turned him in.

Not that I can imagine listening in on a phone conversation like that.  It's just not my style.

I have more straightforward ways of knowing how my daughter is doing.

Anyway, this is not a big huge court precedent---this is a tempest in a teapot over the exact wording of a law.  Right or wrong, the legislature of that state is probably just going to reword the law to make parental eavesdropping legal.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

Read what i say, I said some of the people writing the articles.I did not say all.You tell me i don't read what you say, yet again and agian you people miss what i say, or just hear what you want to. The one that cares

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-11 06:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I have looked at all the stupid crap you throw at us on this site, bottom line is i have allot more experience 1st hand with kids than that of some of these people writing your aticles. ...The one that cares"

By the time you even lay eyes on these kids, they're already under coercion. And you're the primary agent of coercion. You don't know shit!

The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's no good evidence. Far better, it seems to me, to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.
--Carl Sagan

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-10 15:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Drugs are now more powerful and more available than when i was young and then there was no oxy cotton or extasy. I think there are about 10 kids that OD'd from my public High School class.

Seems when i'm right you change the subject.

 The One that cares"

I haven't changed the subject. In fact, you're making my point. After 90 years of criminal prohibition, drugs are more potent (often of unknown potency, which is usually the cause of overdose) and far more available to kids than before.

In addition, because they are illegal, the retail markup can be up to 1,700 percent (yes, that's right, 1700% or 170,000 times the cost of production). And all of this profit goes untaxed directly to criminal organizations. They don't card their customers. They try to recruit children as distributors for reasons of legal liability set up by this same crazy system of alleged drug control.

As it concerns this conversation, the prohibition policy and mindset are not working and are causing a whole raft of problems of their own. Take away the promise of illegal profits and the often irresistable taboo and you drastically reduce the draw to young people.

Or you can go on locking them up and trying to beat it out of them and keep believing you're doing something worthwhile. But you'll have to quit hanging around w/ people who are not as completely credulous as you seem to be.

The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic.
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-11 10:58:00, Antigen wrote:

"In addition, because they are illegal, the retail markup can be up to 1,700 percent (yes, that's right, 1700% or 170,000 times the cost of production)."

Er, 1700% is 17 times.

[chi3]

I just logged on to this site today, but I have to say, this is one thing I sort of agree with the one who cares guy, even though I don't like the wwasps program. I lived with parents who sensored everything they wanted to at THEIR house. I didn't like it much, but it was their right. I am all for giving my kids privacy, but when the trust has been broken, I will check out their actions even closer. If that means reading a not, instant message or listening in on a phone call, I will. I am the parent. I get to make that call. If you don't agree, don't look or listen. Everyone has the right as the adult parent, home-owner, to make this decision.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for not being blinded by the others.
I agree. A parent that knows all of the childs friends and thier parents and has a family dinner every night and has structure for that child to follow will more likely not have problems. I know that there are many single family houses and it is hard to have this type of structure, but the parent has to try or risk losing thier child to bad influences. I'm not saying every circumstance, let me clarify that now, but the parent has a much better chance for thier child to make the right decisions.Bottom line is the parents need to be very onvolved in thier childs life, that means supporting them in all thier endevours, such as sports, learning music, dance, or anything else. I played allot of sports and i can count on one hand the games my mom came to and i played 100's from 11-17.
I know it would have made a difference for me and studies have shown what i am saying. I'm not getting you the info, if you want it, do your own searches. The one that cares

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-12 04:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Thank you for not being blinded by the others.

I agree. A parent that knows all of the childs friends and thier parents and has a family dinner every night and has structure for that child to follow will more likely not have problems. I know that there are many single family houses and it is hard to have this type of structure, but the parent has to try or risk losing thier child to bad influences. I'm not saying every circumstance, let me clarify that now, but the parent has a much better chance for thier child to make the right decisions.Bottom line is the parents need to be very onvolved in thier childs life, that means supporting them in all thier endevours, such as sports, learning music, dance, or anything else. I played allot of sports and i can count on one hand the games my mom came to and i played 100's from 11-17.

I know it would have made a difference for me and studies have shown what i am saying. I'm not getting you the info, if you want it, do your own searches. The one that cares"

You kidnap children. Your opinion in matters such as this is bound to be twisted by your criminal activities and your delusions about "helping" kids by kidnapping them.

[Anonymous]

Look, I don't really have a problem with parents listening to kids conversations on the phone if they're truly worried about something.  I've done it, read notes that I found too.  I think there's a MUCH bigger issue to be concerned about though.  WWASP and the damn teen "help" industry.

[Anonymous]

I am the evil one, sure what ever you say.But until the law tells me i'm breaking it. Then it is just your one sided mind that thinks so. You will not make me mad by calling me a kidnapper, simply because what i do is intervention and i have helped 100's of kids get help. This thread is now dead as you are now changing the subject back to wwasp, which had nothing to do with this thread. Me and you will never agree and that's ok.Because you are the ones who have brainwashed yourselves and have no open mind to see that there are allot of good coming out of allot of these schools. I have seen it and we also have Perigaud and others on this board who have seen it also. But we are all brainwashed. I've never been to a seminar by the way, but one kid that i transfered said that the seminars were his favorite part of the program and really helped him, even though he was just on his way to another program to start over.Are there any schools out there that you people think are good, or are they all evil gulags as you say.
If there are yopu should take time to get these parents to send kids to those that you approve of instead of just saying don;t send your kid away they will be tourtured and brainwashed.
But as i can see it does not matter if a kid needs and actulally gets help from one of these schools. You would think you all got money from kids not going to these schools. Sometimes a parent does not have a choice after trying all elese. You don't even respond at all to my last post which had nothing to do with this.
You are very hateful and resentful.The one that cares

[Anonymous]

I agree, this thread is dead.  We've debated it out.  I even said that I agreed with listening in on a conversation if you're really concerned.  Now, can we get back to more important issues?  Like the abuse that continues to go on at WWASPs?

[chi3]

I'm back to my same original reasons for signing onto this board. What abuse? What kind? When? Where? I believe it has happened. I just would like to hear some concrete details. I want to know if it was reported to authorites. Were people punished? I sincerely want to know. This affects me deeply. I have a child at a wwasp school. I have read and heard so many conflicting stories. I want the truth. Please.

[Anonymous]

The truth is here.  You do have to wade through some b/s posts (there are a lot of us here who really were damaged by these places and it comes out in some very angry, childish ways sometimes...apologies in advance).  WWASP seems to think they have THE answer for every child.  No one does.  Look at what the National Mental Health Association says about 'confrontational therapy'.

http://www.nmha.org/children/justjuv/bootcamp.cfm

Experts agree that a confrontational approach is not appropriate. Most correctional and military experts agree that a confrontational model, employing tactics of intimidation and humiliation, is counterproductive for most youth in the juvenile justice system. The use of this kind of model has led to disturbing incidents of abuse. For youth of color (who represent the vast majority of the juveniles sentenced to boot camps)-as well as for youth with emotional, behavioral, or learning problems-degrading tactics may be particularly inappropriate and potentially damaging. The bullying style and aggressive interactions that characterize the boot camp environment fail to model the pro-social behavior and development of empathy that these youth really need to learn.

Positive changes demonstrated while in the program may not last when a youth returns to his community. Many adult and juvenile offenders sentenced to boot camps report that the program is helpful to them and they feel more positive about their futures. It is unclear, however, whether these attitudinal changes persist after youth leave the boot camp, or whether they are related to actual changes in behavior once a youth returns to his community. Without significant therapeutic intervention while in the program, as well as specialized aftercare following release, boot camp programs have been consistently unsuccessful in "rehabilitating" juvenile or adult offenders.

I can tell you that the program I was in (20+ years ago) was unbeliebably similar to the WWASP programs now.  It changed me for life and not in a good way.  There were many physical abuses that went on, but I was never physically abused.  I SAW a lot of it, but the psychological damage that was done was far worse for me.  The humiliation of 'breaking the image' still effects me, even after all these years.  

The reason why there is no dissention allowed is because if people really, honestly begin to think for themselves they'll get the same nagging feeling that you're getting right now.  Something is not right.  If they're allowed to follow up on those feelings with questions, the program doesn't have the control it needs over it's incarcerees (is that even a word??).  I was WAY to scared to tell my parents what really went on in there.  It wasn't until probably at least 10 years after I got out that I began to tell them.  The confrontation, screaming in your face, telling you that you absolutel WON'T make it without the beloved program (the whole 'deadinsaneorinjail' mantra, every program says it)...how can this possibly be good for anyone, let alone kids who admittedly already have some problems.  I wholeheartedly agree with Timoclea's post about taking your child for a second opinion.  EXCELLENT suggestion.  A second opinion is never a bad idea anyway and you might just see what WWASP is all about by their reaction to you wanting another opinion.

Read this too...
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html

I'm not saying it's an actual cult, but if not it at least runs very, very similar.

Good luck with your daughter.  I have two teenagers myself and have gone through hell and back with one of them.  I needed help with her, but I wasn't about to let WWASP get ahold of her.  I sincerely hope you do sort through these threads, I realize it's a bit difficult but well, very well worth it.  Again, good luck.  I know how scary raising a teen is.  Just remember that your fear is what they use to hook you and then keep you.  When parents are scared for the lives of their kids and someone comes along promising to have the answer it becomes easier for them to keep the parents in line, so to speak.