Author Topic: Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!  (Read 6041 times)

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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2005, 04:55:00 PM »
The seed saved my ass too...  No I was not a junkie... no I was not adicted to anything... It saved me from myself... Greg or Antigen I don't believe either one of you were ever suicidal? Maybe I'm wrong.  But if you ever hated yourself so much that all you wanted to do was die -then you would know what some people are talking about when they say "the seed saved my ass" this is my interpertation anyway...The seed showed me how to live ...with myself and others ... how to survive...how to thrive..  all this without a suicide attempt..I really don't think I had it in me without the help-------no I don't think I was brainwashed into beliving that---------I did have ups and downs mine were just kinda a little up and alot of downs. If I didn't have support I would have fallen flat on my ass-  My honest opinion.   I never had kids but I have 16 neice's and nephews.  One is away at college with a pierced tongue.  She's a straight a student a good kid just has a wierd tongue as far as I'm concerned. I think ( I hope )she will do fine (at least she doesn't wear black nail polish and fishnet shit.  Now I've got one nephew that if the seed was still around (yes one out of 16)that
I think the program would be great for- & no I don't know if he ever has tried any drugs probably has I really don't know-----but him I worry about--- I like the kid -he likes me - he actually thinks I'm cool-somehow.  I keep my eye on him ...I'm hopping for the best--- by the way my senior of highschool I attended maybe once or twice a week- skipped school hung around with some real deadbeats.  I wnt back to school after to finish my senior year- my grades all improved tremendously.  I was involved in class - felt confident(for once) I just thought I'd throw that in there.  I got to go-----later :wave:
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Offline Antigen

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2005, 06:48:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-08 13:55:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

 If I didn't have support I would have fallen flat on my ass- My honest opinion.


Well, I might say the same thing. Except that, through my parents' involvement and devotion to the Program, I did lose my family supports. Fuck `em, I made it anyway!

I can see where the Seed may have been not quite as bad as some other likely alternatives for some people. But can you see where it really fucked things up for some of the rest of us?

Forgive, O Lord, my little joke on Thee and I'll  forgive Thy great big one on me.
--Robert Frost, American poet



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Fran

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2005, 10:53:00 PM »
That was an interesting point Greg made...ironic that most of us were not addicts going into the seed but years later at least 1/2 have addiction problems. Or addictive personalities.
I think I remember the We love Art song but I have blocked out alot of stuff and only when I read about something here in this forum does it come back faintly.
Greg..I have a question? How wealthy did Art get off the seed?
Why did we say we love you to everyone? I remember saying that constantly to the point I was saying it to strangers...weird!! At times I don't want to remember these things that come to mind yet I can't stop reading everyones comments everyday. I think in ways I was more affected by the seed then I thought...why else have I blocked it out for so many years until now?
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2005, 01:02:00 PM »
Antigen-  Didn't your family stop being invloved with the seed in like 1979 or so?  If that is the case... thats like 25 years.  My mother doesn't even remember who Art barker is?  Of course I have explained my mother to you in the past.  Actually my mom after divorcing my Dad 20 years ago- being on her own- got off her meds completely - although she sees doctors constantly for everything else under the sun- actually is happy now- or happier than I've ever seen her- ofcourse an Aunt left her much better off financially.  It is amazing what a few bucks can do for the ole moral.  She may even be happy she outlived the ole man too. who knows?  But anyway my point is - 25 years- didn't that even change anything out for you.  It still bugs me that you had all these problems and you were never on the program.  Before my Dad went to AA- I did tell him to basicly f--- off. But we reconciled years later.  I have one brother thats a Baptist Minister- with a prison ministry in central FL.  Talk about extreme- we were raised catholic - grew up in Miami across the street from a Baptist church that Anita Bryant would sing at (anti gay activest 20 -30 years ago person) we thought this place was  odd  with adults getting baptized in a big pool behind the alter.  Growing up we thought really strange behavior was going on there.  This brother was the last person you would have ever thought would wind up a Minister.  What the hell is my point?  I guess so much shit can happen with time that you can always see through the shit eventually.  I can see good and bad every day in everything.   This brother has eight kids.  Home schooled well travelled (due to missionary stuff -orient & eastern europe) I think my brother is alittle strange but I have to say when I get around him and his family these kids are so nice and well behaved 2 are adults with kids of their own.  They are legitimately nice people and kids and I walk away thinking everytime - that they are good and well adjusted.  Besides tring to save me every once in a while.  I think they have probably given up on that though.      ::bigsmilebounce::
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2005, 01:07:00 PM »
Sorry -there was never a We love Art song.  There once was a song that the group made up for Art & Shelly's 3rd or 4th anniversary,  that was a little corny that Art wanted us to stop singing after a  while.
"art b & shelly -shall we tell you haow we feel -you have given us your treasures- we love you so oooo.  ect   We also gave them a giant stuffed gorillia to go along with the song - we wre a bunch of kids. ::bigmouth::  ::bwahaha::
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2005, 01:09:00 PM »
I have not drank or used drugs in over 30 some odd years.  But guess what I still have an adictive personality...  Why do you think I'm always on this site??? ::bigsmilebounce::
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2005, 01:23:00 PM »
Yes, Antigen the answer to you question is Yes...
But ...( and you know what comes after but) I had to throw that in.  There are still missing links here to me like straight inc........... thats where you and greg went right???   You didn't go through the seed program you went through straight and Gregs dad also had something to do with straight inc also acording to posts I,ve read.  I find it interesting that you both had that in common also.  greg (I know you were in seed but did you go to straight also?            I can see that if I was trying to find my way in life and I got put in the middle of all that crap I'd be pretty resentful also... feeling like I got robbed of my adolescence and I never had time to grow up and figure out anything on my own.
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Offline Anonymous

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2005, 02:58:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-08 13:55:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"The seed saved my ass too...  No I was not a junkie... no I was not adicted to anything... It saved me from myself... Greg or Antigen I don't believe either one of you were ever suicidal? Maybe I'm wrong.

"


I took an overdose of prescription drugs and went out for two days at age 16 11/12. This was during the time my father was trying to throw me back in the program and I had chosen Juvenile detention over returning to his house. Soon after the ACLU in st pete got involved and I left for Ft Lauderdale.

Welcome back Ft Lauderdale!
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Offline Anonymous

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2005, 03:02:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-08 13:55:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:  I never had kids

"



You too, eh?

I am sorry for all of you guys that missed that most valuable aspect of living. It is one of things I find most unfair about what happened to you long timers...that and the lack of sex and relationships..
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Offline Anonymous

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2005, 03:08:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-08 19:53:00, Fran wrote:

"That was an interesting point Greg made...ironic that most of us were not addicts going into the seed but years later at least 1/2 have addiction problems. Or addictive personalities.

I think I remember the We love Art song but I have blocked out alot of stuff and only when I read about something here in this forum does it come back faintly.

Greg..I have a question? How wealthy did Art get off the seed?

Why did we say we love you to everyone? I remember saying that constantly to the point I was saying it to strangers...weird!! At times I don't want to remember these things that come to mind yet I can't stop reading everyones comments everyday. I think in ways I was more affected by the seed then I thought...why else have I blocked it out for so many years until now?"


Fran, the blocking it all out thing is so common that I am convinced something is going on there. Many people log on and miss what year they were there by two or three,can't even remember how old they were...it is real strange.

The I love you thing is an aspect of cults called loaded language...and as far as singing love songs to art (art barker and shelly..shall we tell you how we feel..you have given us your riches..we love you so...we love you so (row row row your boat style with rising cresencdo)...

well..this is all about being involved in a personality cult.

How wealty did art get? I believe  Extremely wealthy early on...later years there is some debate on whether he hung on to most of it or not. When the seed closed down he donated quite a bit of money to charities that seedlings were involved with like Habitat for humanity and canine companions.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2005, 03:18:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-09 10:23:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Yes, Antigen the answer to you question is Yes...

But ...( and you know what comes after but) I had to throw that in.  There are still missing links here to me like straight inc........... thats where you and greg went right???   You didn't go through the seed program you went through straight and Gregs dad also had something to do with straight inc also acording to posts I,ve read.  I find it interesting that you both had that in common also.  greg (I know you were in seed but did you go to straight also?            I can see that if I was trying to find my way in life and I got put in the middle of all that crap I'd be pretty resentful also... feeling like I got robbed of my adolescence and I never had time to grow up and figure out anything on my own."


Thanks FL...but I am not resentfull. I am pretty much at a stage in life where this stuff is just like telling a story. The emotion is gone..hell, it has been 30 years or so ago.  I do enjoy moderating this site and talking about my experience. I think it is important for several reasons including giving people who haven't come to terms with what happened to them an opportunity to talk about this stuff in an open safe place.

No,  I never went to Straight. My father and I were not on speaking terms when he got involved in founding Straight, Inc. In fact, him and I were estranged over him forcing me into the seed  and them trying to do it again for a many years. You mentioned you would have never made it without the support of the seed. Many of us rejected the seed for personal reasons such as not wanting to be oppressed, and then we suffered extreme isolation from our families and our former seed friends and had lost most of our old friends for being "narcs". It got real lonely out there as a teenager trying to put the seed experience in perspective, struggling to make good decisions with anger and confusion and no real support group..combine that with being told you would def fail if you left the seed.

How did we make it? Are us seed failures  superior to you guys that would be dead insane or in jail without having gone thru the seed in adolescence?

 I don't think so, I just kinda think many of you have built a myth around the "Seed saved me (or my ass) story...I don't think for the most part those statements are based in reality. Maybe for a few extreme cases, but for us non addicted 14,15, and 16 year olds?

Nahhh....
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Offline GregFL

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2005, 03:19:00 PM »
sorry, those four prior posts were me...forgot to log in.
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2005, 05:29:00 PM »
Greg- sounds like you really did go through some major shit-  I'm sorry that you did.  Was your Dad a good guy? and just thought he was doing the right thing? Or was other stuff going on as well? Were they divorced already at that point was he trying to be the hero good Dad or what?  Were you a little shit or pretty normal.  I really do feel like you  got the shit end of the stick.  

I'm really not a weak individual- I don't buy into shit very easily. (I never had moonie mentality) My experiences made me strong like your's probably did as well.  I really can see both sides of this (this is the confusing part for me right now.)  I saw alot of good -through out the years.  I saw majorly fucked up people change and I mean change.  Alot of people that would have gone to prison ( not just for one LSD tab)for for major crimes get a new chance and made good of it.  Some didn't.  I always saw peoples best interests put first.  Now I guess unfortunatly some things fall through the cracks and this is not good.  Got to go.  Later.
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Offline Antigen

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2005, 06:56:00 PM »
Ft. Lauderdale, there is no chance in hell that my mother will ever forget who Art Barker is. To her, he's about like Jesus on Earth.

I know that for a lot of people, the whole Seed experience was just a few months and didn't involve their whole lives. That's not what happened to us. My next door neighbor sent one of his three daughters there. She wound up on staff. You might remember her. Her name was Pam and she was featured in a pretty high profile newspaper article when she worked at Pompano Harness.

Anyway, even though she was completely emmersed for a short time, she eventually quit staff and got back to a fairly normal life. That's not what happened in our family. All three of my older brothers and one sister went in. By the time I was old enough (and, believe me, by that time my mother was convinced that every teenager could use a run through the Program just as a prophylactic) The Seed was in trouble (again) over juvenile placements. That's why I never went there. Instead, I went to the New and Improved Seed in St. Pete.

All of my brothers and sisters left town just about as soon as possible. Other kids in the neighborhood were not allowed to associate w/ me because their parents were a little afraid of us. This included my best friend (till I was 8, anyway) who's dad was a BSO officer.

As recently as about 13 years ago, my mother was still trying to get me into a damned program! Now, mind you, I have never been addicted to anything but tobacco. The one time in my adult life when I picked up the phone and called her looking for moral support (my husband was sick, I was scared) she took it as the oportunity she had been waiting for. She called me the next day and told me she had made arrangements for my kids so that I could enter residential rehab!

This changed the course of my life and family profoundly and completely. The Seed essentially stole my mother and childhood from me.

But I never thought it was a matter of general interest till a couple of years ago. See, I thought that all the Programs had either shut down or reverted back to small, non-influential little cults like The Seed had done. But I've found out since then that these programs and people who believe in them have a whole lot more influence over public policy and funding than most mid-sized towns. And so I think it's worthwhile to examine the philosophy and experience of the people who make up these groups. Hopefully, if people get a general understanding of just what the TOUGHLOVE hategroups are all about, they'll quit letting them write public policy and checks.

Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln

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Offline GregFL

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2005, 07:28:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-09 14:29:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Greg- sounds like you really did go through some major shit-  I'm sorry that you did.  Was your Dad a good guy? and just thought he was doing the right thing? Or was other stuff going on as well? Were they divorced already at that point was he trying to be the hero good Dad or what?  Were you a little shit or pretty normal.  I really do feel like you  got the shit end of the stick.  



I did. And I am not alone. This Seed experience, like Ginger alluded to, was a bump in the road for some, a major diversion for others, and a total train wreck for many like me.

My family was typically disfunctional. My mother was in Ft lauderdale. My father got remarried quick. He had neither the time or the inclintion to be a father until he could wrap it up in a cult setting and garnet as he would say "absolute control". He had a real mean streak. His new wife was ineffective and had three kids of her own. they tricked four of us in initially and then my older "stepbrother" went in after I was off the program. After graduating he robbed my father's business, got in other troubles with the law and became a fugitive. My father still won't have much to do with him. My other stepbrother after graduating the seed has never been married or really had a girlfriend and never known any real successes. His sister after graduating has been in trouble, been divorced twice, been on public asssistance and never has suceeded much either. Both of them say the "needed" the seed and neither has done much  with their lives. We are not close at all since or after the seed.

My real sister wouldn't discuss the seed until about five years ago, then she hit the wall and really got upset about the whole thing, dealt with it and now is very anti Seed/snynanon type program. Her and I have been close for years.

That is about the deal. My father is old and forgetfull now and we don't much discuss those days anymore. My mom get upset if we talk about it. She never wanted me there. I was staying with her for the first time since the divorce when my father concoted a bullshit story, drove down to Lauderdale, and then drove us straight up to the st pete seed, lying the whole time. My step siblings had been put in the day before. After that date, the day I became a prisoner in a personality cult in mid 1973, my childhood was never recovered and lost forever.
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