Author Topic: Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!  (Read 5543 times)

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Offline Jimmy Cusick

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« on: January 04, 2005, 03:58:00 PM »
I must admit when I was sent to the Seed in Ft. Lauderdale on July 1st, 1974 I was a mess. The Seed helped me put the pieces of the puzzle back together again. So what if the Seed wasnt altruistic in their true purpose, that may or may not have been to empower and finance Art Barker. I can only consider my individual experience which may have been initially rather negative but they saved Humpty-Dumpty by providing a physical enviroment where drugs or alcohol were impossible to obtain. In that enviroment they convinced me that my attitude was backwards and upside down. That occured through lots of moral inventories and countless rap sessions where I was led to believe(rightly so) that drugs(the druggie lifestyle)were bad.

There were vast improvements in my attitude and outlook on life once I became a part of the seed as its wheels turned in my foggy brain. I am sorry that some of you seedlings had more negative experiences than I.  St.Pete may have been more military-like in its younger days, I simply dont know about that. Nor do I have any input concerning other kids rehabs ie. CEDU/ straight inc.


I can say with certainty that I have forgiven Art Barker and ALL the Staff members. I did well in High School and surpassed others in the Marine Corps. My decisions (post seed, 5 years) were healthy ones based on my seedling learning experiences,  to disagree with some I really did learn how to get along with other human beings in the "real world". Both business and pleasure, we learned how to be honest and straight forward which I have found to be a rare quality in todays world. So as I recover(again)from addiction I find myself referring to the ideal's that were GIVEN to me in the seed.


50 day's clean and sober,but who's counting?
Jimmy
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2005, 04:56:00 PM »
Jimmy- I glad everythings working out for you. You sound great.  It's like we were always told - now you have the tools and its true.  They always work for me & they havn't let me down yet.  I too have very fond memories at the Seed.  I must admit I think everyone must have some good memories.  Sure I had some people I wasn't crazy about but I have a more memories about people I was crazy about.
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Offline Antigen

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2005, 07:48:00 PM »
I think you're both a little tetched. "The tools" have obviously let Jimmy down repeatedly. I have a brother who says the same thing. Last I talked to him, he was on his third marriage. Been through The Seed, AA, NA, GA ... pretty much made carreer of XA group involvement. And yet, every time I talked to him, he had just then finally figured out how to use those blessed "tools" Art so graciously shared w/ him. But of course, I can't talk to him about it because he takes it as a personal attack and gets all hostile. I really just want to see him quit putting himself through the wringer, ya' know? And you too, Jimmy. Even though I don't know you, I hate to hear of anybody beating themselves up like this.


Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline GregFL

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2005, 09:02:00 PM »
If the seed really "helped" you as intended and promised, you wouldn't be 50 days sober, you would be 30 years sober.

Sorry, that is the reality. Ihope it doesn't sound too harsh.

And Jimmy, when you first logged on here your attitude was 180 degrees. What gives?

Hell...I already know the answer according to program dogma... You weren't working your program and you were being Ungrateful.
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2005, 08:27:00 AM »
Antigen, I can't imagine you bringing out hostility in anyone.  I wonder why your brother and you can't get along?  You always come off as compassionate to me.  I am being factious.  I think I am about through with posting on this site. You have pissed me off.

Greg you could try giving Jimmy a break.  Sorry all I can picture are crabs in a bucket.  

Jimmy I'm glad you are happy.
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2005, 08:40:00 AM »
Antigen what the f--- do you sugest Jimmy and your brother do?  If you hate seeing people go through the RINGER? No one is perfect.  Life is a journey filled with ups and downs.  I'm sorry -you repulse me.  I feel sorry for you.  You sound like you need help and don't try to tear down anyone else for trying to help themselves.  I'm sorry if I sound harsh but don't f--- with people trying to help themselves.
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Offline GregFL

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2005, 09:29:00 AM »
I think you miss the point Ft Laud. There is a contigent of people that, having gone thru stepcraft treatment and being told that only defective people can't stay straight after receiving these "gifts", repeatedly run themselves "thru the program" the rest of their lives setting up failure after failure. The latest success validates them, and their next failure knocks them off their high horse and totally ruins their self worth. The founder of AA himself said only genetically defective people couldn't work the program sucessfully. Funny saying when the best they can come up with is a 5% "success" ratio.

Anyway, this is the ringer Antigen speaks of... thinking somehow you failed the program, not that the program failed you.  AA and the seed share this dogma and it is destructive. Getting sober is a matter of wanting to do it and finding the willpower from within, not recanting magic formulas or singing silly songs.


As far as giving Jimmy a break, I only wish him the best, including wishing he would give himself a break from all this self loathing he has been doing around here. I suspect Jimmy is a real good guy that just keeps getting stuck. He is obviously conflicted about his seed experience but seems to feel it beneficial for his current situation if he finds good in what happened back then.

Jimmy, we are all with you here. All of us. Believe that.


Relax Ft Lauderdale, you will never like everyone you meet nor will you ever like everything said here. That is not the point. The point is freedom of expression about a common experience.
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Offline Anonymous

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2005, 09:34:00 AM »
:nworthy:  :nworthy: Cheers Greg.  I was just getting ready to write a very similar post.

Jimmy, we ARE with you.
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Offline cleveland

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2005, 09:54:00 AM »
Hey, I have to chime in here too...

I know 'Ft. Lauderdale' personally and he is one of the kindest people around...notwithstanding telling Antigen to 'f---off'...!!!

Jimmy sounds like a damn fine guy to me who is trying to do what's right for him - if 'the program' tools are honesty, trust and doing what's right then fine, I'm sure he can figure it out for himself over time..if not, then no program helps...it's really up to us in the end. And our families and friends. "Take what you want and leave the rest."

As for me, I think there's a dark side to the program - and an even darker side to other programs that use coercion and peer pressure. Let's face it, you can use coercion and peer pressure to cause a person to do good things...but those same tools can be used in a destructive way. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

So, for me, any 'program' - or political party, corporation, religion, or group - that uses group think, that shames those who disagree, that thinks only 'they' have the answer - I will have to say - no thanks.

I know Antigen has a strong viewpoint, Ft. Lauderdale equally so. You guys can agree to disagree at some point and keep the dialog open, or just shut each other down, which I think would be a loss to us all. We are all just middle-aged people trying to figure life out, yes?
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Offline GregFL

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2005, 11:16:00 AM »
yes
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Offline Fran

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2005, 12:07:00 PM »
Middle age??? That scares me more then being put back in the seed. Just kidding!! Got to lighten things up here.
I wish Jimmy nothing but the best...I am happy for him.
I have not had the horrific experiences some had in the seed. I entered Jan 15th, 73 and I played the game and went home 2 weeks later...and graduated about 3 1/2 months but stayed in oldtimers for about 2 years or so. I stayed straight for about 4 years and then began to drink etc. on a social basis only and experimented with speed and qualudes out of curiosity mostly from what I felt I missed out on after hearing everyone elses drugs of choice in the seed but I was the one that decided at a certain point that I needed to grow up and become responsible. I eventually quit smoking cigarettes and try to maintain a healthy lifestyle. When I went into the seed I went from one peer pressure into another. Did the seed really help me? I don't know...I think it just postponed the inevitable. I was the one in the end that had to make the decisions in my life which road I wanted to go down.
But it does sadden me that the seed did hurt so many kids and even 30 years later the hurt and anger is still there.  And for others as in Jimmy's case they are happy of the time they spent there. As for me I am indifferent about it...it is a part of my life that is over I can't change it.
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Offline Anonymous

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2005, 12:32:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-05 05:27:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Antigen, I can't imagine you bringing out hostility in anyone.  I wonder why your brother and you can't get along?  You always come off as compassionate to me.  I am being factious.  I think I am about through with posting on this site. You have pissed me off.

Yeah, that Antigen...what a bitch.  Zero compassion
 :roll:  :roll:
 
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#74226

Quote
Dude, if I were closer, I'd certainly give you the key to my basement. But I'm thousands of miles away.
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Offline Antigen

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2005, 01:20:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-05 05:27:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Antigen, I can't imagine you bringing out hostility in anyone.  I wonder why your brother and you can't get along?


Honestly? Because, no matter what else has happened over the last 30 years or so, the conversation always goes back by some way to the Program. He's usually extholing he virtues of his latest incarnation as an ex-[drugger, drinker, gambler, whatever] and asking me to pretend it makes sense. I can't do that. I suppose it's a little ironic. The one aspect of the Program that I did internalize was honesty. I honestly don't think he ever was an addict or a bad person when he was 14 and my mother got sucked in by Art's schpeel. And I can't watch this ongoing saga and pretend it's all good.

So, if I'm going to get along w/ him, I have to do a whole lot of pretending and ignoring. Oh, and btw, I also have to pretend that I'm terribly unhappy (must be, why else would I drink beer) and that I'm addicted to and spending lots of time and money on illegal drugs (must be, why else would I care about drug policy reform) At the bottom of it, I'm just not that good at--or interested in--pretending. Gimme the real or save your breath. I know, that makes me a difficult person but that's what I am.

Our friends and allies in the Middle East and Europe will soon be subject to forms of intimidation by an Iraqi government bent on dominating the Middle East and its oil reserves,
http://www.sptimes.com/' target='_new'>Project for the New American Century (were they talking about themselves?)

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Antigen

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2005, 01:27:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-05 05:40:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Antigen what the f--- do you sugest Jimmy and your brother do?  If you hate seeing people go through the RINGER? No one is perfect.  Life is a journey filled with ups and downs.  I'm sorry -you repulse me.  I feel sorry for you.  You sound like you need help and don't try to tear down anyone else for trying to help themselves.  I'm sorry if I sound harsh but don't f--- with people trying to help themselves.

"


This is a very good example of why I can't get along w/ my brother.

What I'd like Jimmy to try is this. Try not thinking of yourself as a powerless addict at the mercy of powerful substances. Try just skipping the self abasement and wearing the hair shirt and just... get back to what you were doing before you slipped up. If actual, physical and psyche withdrawal symptoms are a real problem (I know they can be at times) try finding a medical doctor who's specially licensed to prescribe subutex(sp?) I hear it's very helpful for getting over the initial hump. It's not maintenance like Methadone, but just a medication to treat withdrawal symptoms for about 3 days.

In all liklihood, you're not half as bad a guy as you might think on some days. None of us are, but we all have our down moments.

Now, I ask you, why does my saying that tend to throw you into a rage? I believe Walley that you're a nice guy. Even w/o Walley saying so you seem like a very decent person to me, except when it comes to certain views about the Program. And this is just exactly what happens between my brother and me. If only we could avoid discussing the Program, we'd get along just fine. Trouble is that it's such a core element of his life and personality it's impossible to avoid.

My brothers and sisters manage by just humoring him. They've told me so. I'm just not good at that.

"Narcotics have been systematically scapegoated and demonized. The idea that anyone can use drugs and escape a horrible fate is an anathema to these idiots. I predict that in the near future right-wingers will use drug hysteria as a pretext to set up an international police apparatus."

--William S. Burroughs

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Offline Antigen

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Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2005, 01:29:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-05 06:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

 :nworthy:  :nworthy: Cheers Greg.  I was just getting ready to write a very similar post.



Jimmy, we ARE with you."


Damn right! You said it a whole lot better, and more gently, than I could. But that's about what I was trying for.

Religion is all bunk.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes