How about some damn ANSWERS.

[Anonymous]

No problem.  I usually don't flood the thread with endless articles, but in this case it was both asked for and, I believe, warranted.  There are plenty more out there.  Ask and ye shall recieve. :wink:   :em:

[Deborah]

The article by Winters was excellent!

I found their use of the word 'racket' interesting. Like the spouse who is cheating and constantly accusing the other spouse of being unfaithful.

From the moment we are born, everything we are subjected to conditions who we will become. Every observation and event has an effect. A good analogy is like we are computers and our life experience is the software that is installed. While it is true that we can adopt some weird, and somtimes anti-social or violent behaviors based on our experiences; to refer to those behaviors as 'rackets' is not productive or accurate. It implies a negative connotation and a conscience awareness of the behavior and its cause. To blame the person for how they reacted to their life experience- to shame them for the way in which they figured out how to function inspite of less than perfect conditions is tantamount to abuse. It's an insult to human intelligence. Those very coping mechanisms are many times what keeps one alive and functioning. To rip them out from under a highly distressed person without ongoing support and effective therapy can leave one disoriented, confused, fearful, 'depressed', paralyzed.  And... addicted to returning to the seminars for further 'help' resolving the discomfort that results from the first seminar.

Any therapy or technique that uses shame, blame, or humiliation is not going to be effective in the long run. It does not 'heal' the misperceptions and assumptions (software) that cause the behavior. Further, the kind of therapy that works to change these 'patterns' of behavior can not be implimented in a large group setting.

While it is useful and beneficial to revist one's past and ferret out how one came to construct their misperceptions and assumptions and how one came to create coping patterns, this takes time and a very skilled counselor. One would be better off applying their $995 (times three, four) toward private counseling where they can get the one-on-one therapy and 'real' change they are desiring.

I have known many est/Lifespring groupies. Even took an 8-day seminar once without the prior knowledge that the facilitator was est trained. This person was also a licensed therapist. Ironically, I was attacked by the leader for running a victim 'racket' after sharing that my son had been incarcerated in a BM facility and my efforts to liberate him had failed. The facilitator went on and on, red-faced and angry that I hadn't done something to save my son. The line went.. If I had just 'confronted' the right person(s) he'd be out. Or I could've kidnapped him. (And risk jail time? Now that's a solution!) In fact he was running his 'racket', to use est speak. His mother had not been able to protect him from an abusive step father. My story pushed his button and off he went on ME for being a victim of my life circumstances.

The therapy one receives is only going to be as good as the therapist. Of all the est/Lifespring groupies I've known, none have resolved major life problems. They all speak the lingo, and what they do best is 'shadetree therapy' on everyone that crosses their path. Might this be their newly acquired 'racket'??? To avoid doing their own 'real' therapy??? I think so. And as long as they have their fellow groupies and seminars they believe they are moving forward. Sounds like an expensive coping mechanism to me.

[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2004-12-29 11:01 ]

[Anonymous]

http://www.stats.org/record.jsp?type=news&ID=483

How to Save a Troubled Kid
November 16 2004
Maia Szalavitz
Avoid reading Time magazine on tough love

In a ?state of the science? conference in October, the National Institutes for Health (NIH) released a consensus statement saying that tough treatments ? including so-called ?boot camps? for troubled teenagers ? ?do not work.? They also warned that ?there is some evidence that they may make the problem worse rather than simply not working.? But in the November 22 issue of Time magazine, the ?state of the science? is almost completely ignored in an account that highlights the positive aspects of a highly profitable tough love chain.

Time?s ?How to Save a Troubled Kid?? focused on a teen with bipolar disorder, whose father said that the Montana-based Spring Creek Lodge program, a tough love program affiliated with the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs (WWASP), ?improved his attitude and sense of responsibility.?

In an 1,800-word article, Time included just two sentences about the NIH?s findings. It didn?t explain, for instance, that years of research are summarized in NIH consensus statements, which are issued when the state of the science is believed to be good enough to draw basic conclusions about treatments.

And while Time acknowledged that WWASP had one program shut down in Mexico for abuse, the magazine failed to mention that WWASP has had at least five affiliates closed following reports of abuse and human rights violations. The Mexican government alone raided and closed three WWASP programs: Sunrise Beach, High Impact and Casa by The Sea.

At High Impact, police took video of teens housed outdoors in dog cages, which later aired on Inside Edition. The Costa Rican government shut Dundee Ranch Academy, reporting human rights violations. One official there told the media that ?In Costa Rica, we don?t even allow that kind of punishment for our prison inmates,? citing the use of isolation rooms in which teens were made to kneel for hours.

The U.S. State Department documented abuse at WWASP?s Samoa facility, which closed following an investigation by the Samoan government. The Czech Republic also raided a WWASP facility there and documented abuse. Brightway Hospital, which WWASP ran in Utah, was closed after the state found licensing violations like failure to report abuse allegations. Congressman George Miller (D-California) has at least twice called on Attorney General John Ashcroft to investigate the program.

If the NIH had said a cancer or AIDS treatment provided by an organization with such a controversial history was ineffective and possibly harmful, would a reputable news organization counter with a story that focused instead on anecdotal claims that the treatment worked?

Stats Senior Fellow, Maia Szalavitz is the author of a forthcoming book investigating tough love treatments, to be published in 2005 by Riverhead Books.

[Anonymous]

http://www.youthrights.org/forums/showt ... nextoldest

Personal experience of WWASP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I ended up spending a total of 20 months in WWASP Programs. 14 months in Carolina Springs Academy, and another 6 months in Dundee Ranch in Costa Rica. During this time, I had the chance to meet teenagers from other programs, and hear accounts from places such as Tranquility Bay, High Impact, and Casa by the Sea. I was 15 when I first woke up in the middle of the night to be escorted to Carolina Springs. It was a retired cop that told me I was going with him whether he like it or not, and I was going to a "boarding school". I remember being thrown on the bed and handcuffed behind my back when I told the man to leave my room. I was put in a van and driven there, handcuffed the entire way. This was not a boarding school. First thing I saw when I got out of the vehicle was a kid named "Sam" who was being carried sideways (like a suitcase) out to "Observational Placement". They took my shoe strings immediately, because I could run, or kill myself, according to them. Soon after, I was issued a standard green uniform, (sweat pants and tshirt). My shoes were taken away completely and I was given sandals because it was harder to run away with them. I can recall so many instances of people trying to kill themselves there that it was unbelievable. We received "corrections" if during our "reading time" we were caught looking away from the page of our book, even for a glance. It was considered "off task". At no point in time during the day were you allowed to speak, unless given permission by a staff, after raising your hand. If you saw something funny, god forbid you laugh. That was considered "breaking silence". You had to watch these corny emotional growth videos that were so corny/boring it was ridiculous, and if you looked away from the screen, you received a correction for being "off task". New rules were made up every day it seemed. You had to line up and march everywhere you went, and if you didn't look directly at the back of the persons head in front of you, you were "off task". If you received a category 2 violation (such as speaking without permission, or laughing out loud, etc....) you went to worksheets, where you had to write a 3,000 word essay in 2 1/2 hours for every category 2 violation and higher. If you didn't finish in 2 1/2 hours, your work ripped up and you started over. Voicing opinions was "highly encouraged" in our once a day group sessions, according to the familiy representatives. Of course, that's only if your opinion was something they liked. If they didn't, you could very easily be sent to observation placement. It was like "Do what we want, when we want, think how we want, and we're not going to take your shit, child". The program also claimed to be non-religious, but that was bullshit. I saw people not make levels for no apparent reason, except the fact that they weren't Christian. So not only do you have to think the way they want socially, but also religiously. Otherwise, they can't do direct harm to you (for not being Christian), but they can make you stay there until they can influence you. Religious fanaticism ran deep in the program, almost every single staff member they hired were religious extremists. I couldn't believe this. When you talked back to a staff member, you were beaten. They called it restraining, but I vividly remember coming out of observational placement after having joints twisted, knees stuck into my back, and rug burns all over my face from them thrusting my face into the carpet. It was supposed to get better after you made a higher level, but that's when it got worse. They use the fact that you want to leave and can't afford not to against you. They make it near impossible for you to accomplish this the higher up you get, and put on so much stress you want to kill yourself more at level 5 than you did at level 1. The program uses a unique scare tactic to force the children into policing each other up. If you see someone doing something, and you don't tell on them immediately, you end up with their same punishment when they are caught. You're taught that since you smoked a cigarette, you were on your way to dying. Also, weird ass rules, like you couldn't get caught looking at a girl, or it was a category two violation. Just weird shit. It was complete brain washing. Then there were seminars. You were treated like dogs. Yelled at if the "facilitator" of the seminar didn't think you were "being real". Carolina Springs was pure hell. I left there at level 5 to transfer to Dundee Ranch. That was one of the best times of my life. Probably because if you were above level four they didn't watch you, and the staff were new, and weren't brainwashed yet. Not to mention I was 17 and having a secret affair with one of the costan rican staff members, that was pretty cool. But most of the staff soon got fired because they voiced their opinions that some of the programs ideologies were bullshit. They fired my girlfriend because she told the girls that she felt there was nothing wrong with having sex as long as it was a monogonous relationship, and it didn't necessarily have to be marriage. I thought the whole ideology of the program was fascist. Anyways, now I'm rambling. I have a lot more horror stories, etc.... but too much to recall at one point without rambling.

[Anonymous]

Just another few words on the subject of brainwashing:

When we covered it in school, we also covered the way to protect potential victims from brainwashing, in advance.  This is one technique the military uses in SERE training to prepare soldiers who might become prisoners of war to resist brainwashing attempts they might encounter---the "R" in SERE stands for resistance.

How you train someone to resist brainwashing is you go over with the person being trained all the irrational and false beliefs the anticipated brainwashers are likely to try to implant in their victims.  Then you present the various rational counter-arguments to the irrational beliefs *in advance*.  Should your trained individual be captured and subjected to brainwashing techniques, his or her statistical likelihood of actually coming to believe the irrational things the brainwashers are attempting to implant is significantly lower than the risk to an unprepared individual.

That's not just personal belief.  There have been solid, rigorous studies done by, or at least on behalf of, the military decades ago.

That's something I've been thinking about a lot as I've watched and gathered information on these facilities.

It's possible that since most children and teens have access to the web, and the attempted parental restrictions are laughably insecure, that one of the best things to do for these teens is to make the programs ineffective, in advance, by collecting information on their target content, identifying the refutable, irrational components of it, and putting together preparatory websites that teens can read for themselves when they're first having serious fallings-out with their parents---before they get sent off in the middle of the night.

You might say that arming the kids ahead of time wouldn't keep them from getting sent off to the programs---that's potentially quite true.

But what it *can* do is by "contaminating" the programs' pool of prey, ensure that more kids come out of the program unbrainwashed, determined to sue for damages, and with good information already  in their heads on exactly how long they have to bring suit, how much it will cost, and where to find a good lawyer.

It has the benefit that it will automatically work against *bad* residential care and will not work against *good* residential care.

Implant the belief that treating other people kindly and respectfully will *usually* trigger them to reciprocate---fine, you're golden.

Try to implant the belief that the patient would be "deadorinjail" without you, and it doesn't matter *what* you do to the patient, he may fake you out and pretend to believe you, but the fake is highly unlikely to become real and will wear off *much* quicker even if it temporarily "takes"---which incidentally means it's less likely that the statute of limitations will have run out.

The trick is getting the attention of potentially troubling teens so that they get "the good word" beforehand.

A pleasant side-effect is that a lot of troubling teens could avoid incarceration simply by humoring their troubling parents just a little bit more.  Many probably can't, unfortunately.  But for the ones that can, I'm all for it.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWASPS

The World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS or WWASP) is a Utah, United States based organization that runs programs that they claim can correct what is perceived as inappropriate behavior by children as young as 12. Parents can sign their children up for these programs at their own discretion. Juveniles can also be admitted to the facilities by court order instead of jail. Some of the WWASP schools are based in the United States, others are abroad. WWASP operates many different websites and is linked to various other organizations, so that an Internet search for "defiant teen" or a similar phrase will likely turn up a WWASP program, rather than the websites of critics or competitors (see external links).

No distinction is made within the programs among students admitted because of law violations and those signed up by their parents. WWASP programs have become notorious for allegations of child abuse against the school staff.........

[Anonymous]

http://www.city-data.com/elec/elec-LA-VERKIN-UT.html


Lichfield, Robert B Mr., (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE on 09/29/03
Robert Lichfield (Teen Help/Owner), (Zip code: 84745) $10000 to UTAH REPUBLICAN PARTY (FEDERAL ACCOUNT) on 11/11/03
GUBLER, EDNA N MRS. (RETIRED/RETIRED), (Zip code: 84745) $200 to NEW REPUBLICAN MAJORITY FUND on 04/28/04
GUBLER, EDNA N MRS., (Zip code: 84745) $200 to NEW REPUBLICAN MAJORITY FUND on 06/24/04
LICHFIELD, ROBERT B (ADOLESCENT PROGRAM CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to BENNETT ELECTION COMMITTEE INC on 04/25/03
LICHFIELD, ROBERT B (ADOLESCENT PROGRAM CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to BENNETT ELECTION COMMITTEE INC on 08/06/03
LICHFIELD, ROBERT B (ADOLESCENT PROGRAM CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $200] to BENNETT ELECTION COMMITTEE INC on 08/06/03
LICHFIELD, ROBERT B (ADOLESCENT PROGRAM CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to BENNETT ELECTION COMMITTEE INC on 08/06/03
Lichfield, Patricia (N/A/Homemaker), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to GEOFF DAVIS FOR CONGRESS on 09/30/03
Lichfield, Robert B. (Self-Employed/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to GEOFF DAVIS FOR CONGRESS on 12/31/03
Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 06/30/03
Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $200] to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 06/30/03
Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $4000 to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 06/30/03
Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 03/31/04
Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $200] to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 03/31/04
Gubler, Kerry J. (Cross Creek Manor/Director), (Zip code: 84745) $250 to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 09/30/04
Lichfield, Patti (Homemaker), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to ROB BISHOP FOR CONGRESS on 04/08/04
Lichfield, Robert (Self-Employed/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to ROB BISHOP FOR CONGRESS on 04/08/04
LICHFIELD, ROBERT (HATFIELD AND LICHFIELD), (Zip code: 84745) $4000 to RICHARD BURR COMMITTEE on 01/27/04
LICHFIELD, ROBERT (HATFIELD AND LICHFIELD), (Zip code: 84745) $200] to RICHARD BURR COMMITTEE on 02/10/04
LICHFIELD, ROBERT (HATFIELD AND LICHFIELD), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to RICHARD BURR COMMITTEE on 02/26/04
LICHFIELD, ROBERT B. MR. (SELF-EMPLOYED/CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to BUSH-CHENEY '04 (PRIMARY) INC. on 08/07/03

[Anonymous]

On 2004-12-29 11:28:00, Anonymous wrote:

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWASPS



The World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS or WWASP) is a Utah, United States based organization that runs programs that they claim can correct what is perceived as inappropriate behavior by children as young as 12."

Not quite true.  Majestic Ranch takes them as young as nine and used to advertise a minimum age of just seven.  I have heard of a 12-year-old being at Casa, which had a minimum age of 13; I bet if someone offered Majestic Ranch money to take a seven-year-old they would still do it.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-12-29 11:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

"http://www.city-data.com/elec/elec-LA-VERKIN-UT.html





Lichfield, Robert B Mr., (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE on 09/29/03

Robert Lichfield (Teen Help/Owner), (Zip code: 84745) $10000 to UTAH REPUBLICAN PARTY (FEDERAL ACCOUNT) on 11/11/03

GUBLER, EDNA N MRS. (RETIRED/RETIRED), (Zip code: 84745) $200 to NEW REPUBLICAN MAJORITY FUND on 04/28/04

GUBLER, EDNA N MRS., (Zip code: 84745) $200 to NEW REPUBLICAN MAJORITY FUND on 06/24/04

LICHFIELD, ROBERT B (ADOLESCENT PROGRAM CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to BENNETT ELECTION COMMITTEE INC on 04/25/03

LICHFIELD, ROBERT B (ADOLESCENT PROGRAM CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to BENNETT ELECTION COMMITTEE INC on 08/06/03

LICHFIELD, ROBERT B (ADOLESCENT PROGRAM CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $200] to BENNETT ELECTION COMMITTEE INC on 08/06/03

LICHFIELD, ROBERT B (ADOLESCENT PROGRAM CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to BENNETT ELECTION COMMITTEE INC on 08/06/03

Lichfield, Patricia (N/A/Homemaker), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to GEOFF DAVIS FOR CONGRESS on 09/30/03

Lichfield, Robert B. (Self-Employed/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to GEOFF DAVIS FOR CONGRESS on 12/31/03

Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 06/30/03

Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $200] to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 06/30/03

Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $4000 to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 06/30/03

Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 03/31/04

Lichfield, Robert B. (Self/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $200] to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 03/31/04

Gubler, Kerry J. (Cross Creek Manor/Director), (Zip code: 84745) $250 to JOHN SWALLOW FOR CONGRESS INC. on 09/30/04

Lichfield, Patti (Homemaker), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to ROB BISHOP FOR CONGRESS on 04/08/04

Lichfield, Robert (Self-Employed/Consultant), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to ROB BISHOP FOR CONGRESS on 04/08/04

LICHFIELD, ROBERT (HATFIELD AND LICHFIELD), (Zip code: 84745) $4000 to RICHARD BURR COMMITTEE on 01/27/04

LICHFIELD, ROBERT (HATFIELD AND LICHFIELD), (Zip code: 84745) $200] to RICHARD BURR COMMITTEE on 02/10/04

LICHFIELD, ROBERT (HATFIELD AND LICHFIELD), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to RICHARD BURR COMMITTEE on 02/26/04

LICHFIELD, ROBERT B. MR. (SELF-EMPLOYED/CONSULTANT), (Zip code: 84745) $2000 to BUSH-CHENEY '04 (PRIMARY) INC. on 08/07/03"

http://www.nospank.net/n-n22r.htm

Lichfield donations
Campaign donations by Robert Lichfield and his family or business associates during the 2002 and 2004 elections total $1,016,607.
Top 10:

Republican National
Committee...........................$255,600
Utah Republican Party........$165,900
Arizona Republican Party...$150,000
John Swallow*......................$118,000
Sen. Bob Bennett, R-UT........$68,500
Jon Huntsman, Jr.**................$65,000
Jim Hansen**..........................$47,433
New York Republican
State Committee....................$32,000
Marty Stephens
(Utah House Speaker)...........$31,500
Geoffrey Davis***....................$14,000
*Utah congressional candidate
**Utah gubernatorial candidate
***Kentucky congressional candidate
Source: Federal Elections Commission. Utah State Elections Office. New York State Elections Office.
The Salt Lake Tribune

[Antigen]

First, let me pile onto others' comments about you personally, Perrigaud. I think you're a very smart young woman, intellectually honest and very well spoken. "Brainwashed" is such a pejorative term. I also agree w/ Timoclea's descriptions. When I was a very young mother, I was so skeptical of everything I had ever been told that I had to store an opened jar of jelly in the cabinet instead of the fridge just to see what would happen. Mold happened. Then I had true faith that jelly really should be refrigerated after opening.

Here's another favorite of mine on the topic.

Consensus Trance
Many years ago (c. 1976-78) I used to experiment with hypnosis. I had since wondered how such a thing could be possible -- how could a capacity for hypnosis evolve? The solution appeared, finally, in an interview with Charles Tart. (Charles Tart is a Professor Emeritus of the University of California at Davis.)

Essentially, hypnotic trance is not so unusual; it's the usual condition of almost everybody, almost all the time. A hypnotist only nudges you from one trance to another. What most people describe as "awake" (and thinking about money, football scores, the drug/ terrorist menace, or TV), consciousness researchers call "consensus trance" -- a common agreement about how to interpret the world. We don't notice we're hypnotized because people around us are hypnotized the same way.

At the end of the day, there's no shame in it. And there's nothing to fear from looking into the issue for better understanding.

Here's something you said, Perrigaud, that caught my eye. Though there are differences, there are also very many similarities between WWASP and Straight. One of them is a contradiction that always stuck out in my mind (and it was my secret and one of those little things that buoyed my mind to reality) and that you touch on here.

On 2004-12-28 04:44:00, Perrigaud wrote:

I told my mom that I thought she was weak because she never spoke up as much as my dad did. I told my dad he had no tact. At this point you also work on the plan for returning home. You begin to lay down the foundation (rules and consequences).

All of us were constantly told that one of the reasons we needed treatment is that we had shown no respect for our parents. But an integral part of the program was something very similar to what you describe above.

Were these sessions group sessions w/ other families? Or were they just you, your parents and a staffer?

In Straight, the context was a little different, but the basic idea was the same. After we earned 2nd phase and were allowed to live w/ our parents, we were always sent home with at least one higher phaser. As an out of town kid, I was frequently the higher phaser. And my function was to observe the family and to enforce Program rules and behavior. Not just on the new 2nd phaser, not even mostly on them, but primarily on the parents. I was required to take on the role of the adult in the home and to confront the parents if I thought they were not following the Program in some minor way. If it was a major infraction (like stopping off for gas or to use a restroom on the way home or having beer in the house) I was to immediately call staff and report them. I was also forbiden to tell the parents what I was really there fore. We just told them we were there to provide moral support for the new 2nd phaser.

There were many other situations where us kids, who were supposed to be learning respect for our parents, were absolutely required to disrespect them, to dismiss them as unenlightened screwups if they deviated from the Program.

And I think this is key to how the Program "works". The bottom line is that it teaches us to accept their judgements and perceptions above our own judgement and perceptions. That's the essence of brainwashing.

Here's another thing I found interesting in this thread.

"Automakers learned a long time ago that if the right system is engineered, everyone who works on the assembly line is not required to be an engineer themselves," he said. "These (Teen Help) programs have been carefully engineered by many professionals in the field, who not only have extensive educational backgrounds but also have scores of years of experience. " ... The programs are continually monitored on a daily basis to insure that the designed outline is being followed."

First of all, who are those professionals he's talking about? Where are their peer reviewed studies? Exactly where does the WWASP philosophy come from? Have any of you been given citations or other info to research the methods prior to signing the contract? Can any of you even name the methods or their authors or give any history at all about how the Program was developed or by whom?

Not a rhetorical question. I really want to know if you have this info and, if so, what the answers are.

Second, whenever these programs get shut down or make headlines for abuse, the owners consistently blame some underling and claim that whatever they were doing to get into hot water it was NOT known or sanctioned by the owners or refering organization. Even when the reports, spanning years as well as state and national borders, are nearly identical, they always claim ignorance.

But this guy seems to be saying the opposite; that the owners and officials of WWASP/TeenHelp are all over the people they hire, ensuring that their practices and policies conform to the parent organization exactly.

So.... which is it?

Cops; you wake `em up you gotta dance with `em. They lead.
-- Jack McNulty

[Anonymous]

You have lost it completely. Seek therapy!

[Anonymous]

ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Anonymous]

On 2004-12-29 16:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You have lost it completely. Seek therapy!"

 :rofl:  :rofl:

[Anonymous]

For those of you with experience of residential treatment for kids, are there others that are as much for the parents as for the kids?  What do they do in the way of bringing the family back together (seminars, workshops, family therapy) on a consistent basis? How many of these other programs have local family support groups?  What ways can the parents connect with each other if they want to?  

Newspaper reporters have little credibility when they are looking to sell stories with shock value.  Tim Weiner met with many, many parents that had positive things to say about WWASP and didn't print one sentence from those hours he spent with them, all the while smiling and saying how great it was to talk with them.  Only he knows why.

Casa by the Sea was not shut down for abuse.  It was shut down for political reasons that we may never know completely.  They weren't the only ones before or after in Mexico either.

How do you draw conclusions based on newspaper articles or forums on the internet, when there are intelligent and successful teens and parents that have gone through the whole process and are better for it?  How is it that physicians and psychologists, with a hell of a lot more education that some of the critics here, know it's not brainwashing?  

If what the kids and parents learn about themselves in the seminars is brainwashing, I say "get out the soap and sponge!"  It's not mind control or anything negative!  

Timoclea - are you a therapist?

[Nihilanthic]

Jesus H Christ anon, you just regurgitated more bullshit, AND went over almost every programmie excuse I think there is!

So, first you give us.... general/vague/bullshit about support and 'for the family' and 'for the parents' which not only means aboslutely zip.sh*t, but implies you've been manipulated.

Secondly, you say reporters have no credibility when looking for something with a shock value, trying to discredit ANYTHING bad that might be said about the program, and deferring to 'parents that had positive things to say'. Nazis had positive things to say about the 3rd reich, hun.

Thirdly, you give us utter bullshit about how Casa by the Sea was closed for politicial reasons because you or the program just know it all and can do NO wrong!

Fourthly, you say we cant draw conclusions based in information we got from the internet because YOU say people have gotten better from it? On the internet, might I add. Then you go on to say that pshysicians and psychologists, who have a 'hell of a lot more education', 'know its not brainwashing'.

NEWSFLASH: I told MY psychologist about this and HE was *SHOCKED* and thought it was brainwashing too! One of the parents POV reports of the seminars was written by...

A PSYCHOLOGIST! :rofl: OOPS!

THEN, after all that, you say that if its brainwashing, you want to get out a soap and sponge?

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  :rofl: :rofl:

You are one PATHETIC human being. Same old tired excuses, and claiming psychologists are on your side despite facts to the contrary. NIMH says this kind of treatment is bad intrinsically!

Keep on nodding and doing as youre told, sheep. This is TERRIBLY amusing!
 

Theology: The effort to explain the unknowable in terms of the not worth knowing.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher