Majestic Ranch Prosecution

[Anonymous]

In other words, eating Mexican food in Mexico is not acceptable?  Reminds me of the so-called lunches at the public schools: burgers, pizza, junk food every day, every single stinking day.  I dont care if I never even SMELL another piece of pizza or burger.  Zits are the result of such garbage diets - unless that's just being a teenager.  DUNNO!

[Anonymous]

I think she was just mentioning it as an example of the detail that is typically lacking from the accounts of recent program graduates but is common among people who've been out five or more years.

Not all the detail is horror stories---some of it's just the daily grind.

The alarms right before the marathon seminars to start the sleep dep. is much more serious than the food issue.  It's not conclusive by itself, but as part of the larger pattern---my god, how *stupid* (or just coldly indifferent) would you have to be to put your kid there?

I'm glad the WWASP apologists show up here to push their party line.  They're not very good at it, and generally come across to any relatively sane parent as dangerously disconnected from reality---about halfway between Mommy Dearest and Norman Bates' mom.

[Anonymous]

yeah, i really want to take a chance w/my child's life and consider him/her safe with an alleged child abuser.  NOT!!!!!

[Anonymous]

That's all the media has to do is write about allegations and the whole world hides in fear.  A responsible person would check it out for accuracy before running scared.  It was NEVER proven true, only a bunch of kids wanting to come home and made up the story.  OMG!  Would a troubled teen really do that!?? :rofl:

[spots]

On 2004-02-15 17:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"That's all the media has to do is write about allegations and the whole world hides in fear.  A responsible person would check it out for accuracy before running scared.  It was NEVER proven true, only a bunch of kids wanting to come home and made up the story.  OMG!  Would a troubled teen really do that!?? :rofl: "

Well...what does it take to "prove" it's true??  These statements I print on Fornits are not the statements of a kid trying to lie his way into being "released".  As I have said over and over again, they are the anecdotal tidbits we hear as we go about our daily life, trying to get this kid back into high school, after-school volleyball, dating, Spanish II....

What kind of person hears the stories I relate, and says, "Well, can you prove that they're true?"  Do you, as an investigative parent, want to go with this mentality, to hand over your kid to a suspect group of incompetent sadists?  What do you need to learn if the hundreds of stories (as opposed to the "hundreds" of supportive stories FROM KIDS that we never seem to see published) are true??  

What kind of parent would read about this stuff and say, "Oh My God!  Would a troubled teen really do that???  :ROLL ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING!!!!!!!!!!!  

May you spend your twilight years in a rest home chosen by your "troubled teen", eating macaroni and cheese off a paper plate, listening to Oldies but Goodies from the 60's, being visited a couple of times a year, having your hair done by a kind young lady, and wondering why you thought it appropriate to "roll on the floor laughing" when your child told you he was being abused in WWASPS.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-02-15 17:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"That's all the media has to do is write about allegations and the whole world hides in fear.  A responsible person would check it out for accuracy before running scared.  It was NEVER proven true, only a bunch of kids wanting to come home and made up the story.  OMG!  Would a troubled teen really do that!?? :rofl: "

No, a responsible person would consider the potentials for abuse and the lack of government regulation of the industry and *avoid* placing their  child outside of the country, as a start.

Secondly, a responsible parent, if they *had* to consider residential treatment would consider treatment as close to home as possible, preferably in state, and visit *often* and *unannounced*.

[Anonymous]

there could also be parents that may hide their heads in the sand and never want to listen to what happened to their children after all how could you deal with the guilt if something horrible did happen to their children?..

read some of the straight survivor stories and parents who still will not believe or hear what happened to them...or maybe you think they are lying too?

can't imagine sending 8-12 years old out of the protection of their parents- if it were me you'd have to pry them away.

[Anonymous]

That's all the media has to do is write about allegations and the whole world hides in fear. A responsible person would check it out for accuracy before running scared. It was NEVER proven true, only a bunch of kids wanting to come home and made up the story. OMG! Would a troubled teen really do that!??  

people who refuse to believe a child when they say that they are being sexually molested are just as guilty as the molester in my book.  certainly, any responsible parent would not leave the child inthe hands of the alleged perputrator.

[Anonymous]

I guess we all should take our children out of the catholic schools they attend? I know that's a much bigger target, and from the allegations of sexual abuse it would make me think about this long and hard, but living in fear of a few wayward priests doesn't justify keeping children out of school without first checking to see if the allegations are true or not.

It is the parents responsibility to find out and listen to their gut about getting help from a school that will help their child and family work together instead of against each other.  This board is meant to separate not reunite.

[Deborah]

**This board is meant to separate not reunite.**

Spoken like a true perpetrator of abuse, or in this case, supporter of abuse.
Quiet common for the perpetrator to accuse others of doing precisely what s/he is quilty of. Ever heard that? Almost all cheaters will accuse their spouses of cheating. Politicians do this as well, but in that case, it's a conscious technique to sway pubic opinion.

You support the division of families and the warehousing of teens, scapegoating them for "family" problems; yet accuse this "board" of separating? Go figure.

This board's primary purpose, as I understand it, is to provide a venue for those who have had negative experiences with the industry, and those wise enough to do their homework before shipping their kid off. You should be happy you're even allowed. You program supporters must hold on to the fantastical hope that you will silence or convert those who have a different experience, understanding and perception of the difference between abuse and therapy; and the industry in general. Just isn't going to happen.

You sound like fundamentalist zealots who repeat the same dogma over and over, ad nauseum... and as if no one has ever heard it before. You would have us all warehouse our teens and consider it "reuniting" the family? MANIPULATOR. WISH I COULD ISSUE YOU A CONSEQUENCE!!!

And yes, I understand you mean the family will "eventually" be reunited-- when the teen is thoroughly conditioned? And whatever that takes is just hunky dorey.  

How do you justify the techniques used by W and other programs? (W doesn't have the market cornered on abusive BM techniques- they're all more alike than different). Where would you draw the line? What do you consider abuse? I would genuinely like to know where you draw the line. In other words, what techniques would you allow as a means of having a "perfect" teen returned to you?

More times than not, advocates are calling for informed consent and full disclosure. There are way too many parents who don't have a clue, and believe that the only techniques used are those vaguely spelled out in their handy parent manual. If programs did this one thing, they'd still have business- from those who condone abuse; but would have far less angry parents who feel deceived when they learn the truth. And we'd have many less mouth pieces for the industry here flapping. ::bigmouth::

[Anonymous]

Deborah - you continue to assume you know so much about WWASP programs.  You don't.  You know what you read, period.  Just because your son's program was abusive, so you've said, you've jumped on the wwasp bandwagon and spout your assumptions over and over and over again.  For that matter, there are many on this board that enjoy jumping on the bandwagon who have NO experience whatsoever with wwasp and are assuming they know the truth.  A "newbie" to this board would be hard pressed to find it.  I don't care who they believe, what I do care about is that they get accurate information.  Only about 2% of what has been posted by you so called child rights activists or educational consultants that can't refer to wwasps is true.  When someone posts the truth, they are accused of drinking kool aid, or they want to justify their child being abused, or they are idiots.  What's in this for you.  Saving children?!  That's funny.

[spots]

On 2004-02-16 20:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Deborah - you continue to assume you know so much about WWASP programs.  You don't....Only about 2% of what has been posted by you so called child rights activists or educational consultants that can't refer to wwasps is true.   "

Who *does* know about WWASPS programs?  Does this Anon (who seem to be very prolific in all threads recently) know?  Three sequential posts on one thread all sound as if they are from the same single "Anon".  My educated guess, from dealing with a lot of this sort of panicked rote response, is that this is a mother whose child has been at a WWASPS facility, maybe for 5-6 months now, who is probably having some major concern flitting through her fogged mind.  She believes the wonderful gushy letters from her child, and has had maybe 3 or 4 phone conversations so far. Her kid says he loves her, and finally recognizes that he was on the wrong track and he is working hard to graduate The Program (quickly as possible) and return to his loving family who sent him here for his own good.  The seminars have been euphoric for her, what with a large room full of people backslapping her, cheering her, confirming that she did do the right thing.  

This Anon does not know WWASPS either.  She may never know.  But her kid will.  He will never forget.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-02-16 21:05:00, spots wrote:


Who *does* know about WWASPS programs?  Does this Anon (who seem to be very prolific in all threads recently) know?  Three sequential posts on one thread all sound as if they are from the same single "Anon".  My educated guess, from dealing with a lot of this sort of panicked rote response, is that this is a mother whose child has been at a WWASPS facility, maybe for 5-6 months now, who is probably having some major concern flitting through her fogged mind.  She believes the wonderful gushy letters from her child, and has had maybe 3 or 4 phone conversations so far. Her kid says he loves her, and finally recognizes that he was on the wrong track and he is working hard to graduate The Program (quickly as possible) and return to his loving family who sent him here for his own good.  The seminars have been euphoric for her, what with a large room full of people backslapping her, cheering her, confirming that she did do the right thing.  



This Anon does not know WWASPS either.  She may never know.  But her kid will.  He will never forget. "

There you go showing your ASSumptions again.

ASSumption 1 - I am not a new parent to this.  Unless you think almost 5 years is new.

ASSumption 2 - I've never been patted on the back for "doing the right thing for my child." I don't need that kind of validation.

ASSumption 3 - Gushy letters from my child!  You gotta be kidding, right?

ASSumption 4 - My child will never forget, but it's not for the abuse you think he endured.

ASSumption 5 - I don't know WWASPS.  

Since this is your "educated guess," then maybe a little re-education is in your immediate future.

[Kiwi]

I guess we all should take our children out of the catholic schools they attend? I know that's a much bigger target, and from the allegations of sexual abuse it would make me think about this long and hard

Yes, they are a bigger target and therefore the number of allegations much smaller in proportion but I take your point, I would be just as concerned about any catholic school that censored letters and didn't allow contact with parents until the kids had earned the "privilege".  I would also take any such allegation by my child extremely seriously and would expect the school to do the same.

One thing you won't find catholic schools doing is sending both parents and children to seminars where they are taught "there is no right and wrong": it kinda goes against catholic doctrine.

By the way.  I am not a catholic so I am not just sticking up for my religion.

[Deborah]

**What's in this for you. Saving children?!**

Informed consent. I believe parents should know how their child will be "treated" while in the hands of strangers. I also believe that programs are more alike than different. It appears that W is simply more open about their particular "methods" for gaining compliance, where the high dollar facilities are more covert.

They all:
Point to the teen as the problem. They might point to the parent if the teen were capable of paying for their incarceration.
Censor mail and forbid mail from other family members and family friends.
Provide no access to a phone or the outside world and monitor communication.
Use limited calories, restraint, excessive punishment to gain compliance.
Have a system in place to relieve the parent of guilt and strenghten their decision.

This list could go on and on, but if we took item for item, you'd see they are more similar than different. Those attributes are very necessary to "change" someone against their will. W is just the KMart version, that appeals to a different socio-economic group of people.

The only differences will be in the methods and techniques, which are what is in question... and no one wants to talk honestly about.

One can condition a child to avoid touching the knobs on the TV by consistently (key) shocking them with a cattle prod. The question... is that humane. And that is the question being posed to you program supporters. What I have heard you say over and over, is that the methods employed are necessary to accomplish change. I, and others, disagree. There are more humane ways of dealing with difficulty.