The smoking gun - do survivors lie?

[Whooter]

I was there and would state under oath that what Shaggy's posted is EXACTLY what I experienced when I was in Straight.  I don't give a flying fuck what DannyBoi or Whooter think or how much they froth at the mouth.

Anne if you read my response to Shaggys post you would have seen that I thought it was very credible.  I didnt need to see his hand on the bible to sway my opinion.  Sometimes the way a person presents themselves and the language they use can assist in adding credibility to their story.  Some people come across as credible because of the words they chose and a sincerity in their approach.

This plays in to what confuses me.  When faced with an opportunity to be honest and just tell the truth some people will embellish and use words for the purpose of fooling someone into believing something that didnt happen.  If the truth (in itself) is bad in its own accord then why embellish it and risk being viewed as a liar?  Do you see what I mean?



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[Watchful Yeoman]

When faced with an opportunity to be honest and just tell the truth some people will embellish and use words for the purpose of fooling someone into believing something that didnt happen.

I fabricated a son

I only see Whooter doing this.  I have yet to see a single example of a survivor doing this.

[Watchful Yeoman]

When faced with an opportunity to be honest and just tell the truth some people will embellish and use words for the purpose of fooling someone into believing something that didnt happen.

I fabricated a son

I only see Whooter doing this.  I have yet to see a single example of a survivor doing this.

Maybe Whooter can explain to the rest of us why he has done this repeatedly since 2005.

[DannyB II]

My take on the subject is that nobody should bother answering you, of all people, about lying.  Nobody here should be lectured by a liar such as yourself about lying.

You've never been in a program, we know that.  You never had a son at Second Nature, we know that, too.  But you have lied about both, posing a program kid and "fabricating" a child you never had.  Why the hell should anyone humor you about lying?

and you have lied continuously about your interpretation of what Whooter said. You have no proof of intention so you make one up to explain your prejudice.
Listen you can't really believe anyone with any sense is taking you seriously, Anne is a clerk of all things, come on. So she can spell and write a sentence or two but as far as credibility, please. She has proven herself to be a loon.
Outside of your 6 or 7 folks everyone else thinks your a joke. This whole Whooter show, has been played a dozen times, your show is no different.
Folks come and read, see the bullshit about Whooter as they have seen for years now and they get turned off and move on. One thing they do notice is DJ has changed his name, one more time. So you keep up the legacy of sock puppetry here on fornits.

[Anne Bonney]

I was there and would state under oath that what Shaggy's posted is EXACTLY what I experienced when I was in Straight.  I don't give a flying fuck what DannyBoi or Whooter think or how much they froth at the mouth.

Anne if you read my response to Shaggys post you would have seen that I thought it was very credible.  I didnt need to see his hand on the bible to sway my opinion.  Sometimes the way a person presents themselves and the language they use can assist in adding credibility to their story.  Some people come across as credible because of the words they chose and a sincerity in their approach.

My response was to DannyBoi saying that it was an embellishment.

This plays in to what confuses me.  When faced with an opportunity to be honest and just tell the truth some people will embellish and use words for the purpose of fooling someone into believing something that didnt happen.  If the truth (in itself) is bad in its own accord then why embellish it and risk being viewed as a liar?  Do you see what I mean?

They don't embellish, that's your opinion of it.  There's no need to embellish it when the actual truth is quite bad enough.

[shaggys]

I wouldn't have a reason to lie about any of what I saw and went through personally at Straight inc. The truth is more than enough. I have a son who is the same age now that I was when I went into the program. Sometimes I look at him and I think about how I must have looked at that age, sitting in that miserable group. Thats the part that makes you just wanna break down and cry about the whole thing. I can't do that shit though. I have a life with people depending on me so I gotta maintain.
We sat in group and we stared straight ahead. On the wall directly in front of the group were the 7 steps. The only reading allowed.
If you moved your eyes to glance to the side or worse yet, maybe you ever so slightly turned your head then the person sitting behind you was expected to immediately put their index finger into the side of your head just above the ear and drag that finger along the side of your scalp until it ended up by your eye. Go ahead, try it at home and see how it feels. This is just one of the bizarre little abuse rituals that were part of everyday life in that program.

[Whooter]

They don't embellish, that's your opinion of it.  There's no need to embellish it when the actual truth is quite bad enough.

That is my point if they were escorted by an escort service why not just say that?  If that in itself is bad enough why embellish it to say you were kidnapped?  Are there any reports which support that these kids were kidnapped and amber alerts were put out on them?  Are there any trials in progress or concluded?

Do you see what I mean?  It might have "felt" like they were kidnapped, (that I can understand) but in reality they were not. There is just no evidence to support this that I have seen to date.   Unless this can be supported somehow this is more than just my opinion.



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[Shadyacres]

They don't embellish, that's your opinion of it.  There's no need to embellish it when the actual truth is quite bad enough.

That is my point if they were escorted by an escort service why not just say that?  If that in itself is bad enough why embellish it to say you were kidnapped?  Are there any reports which support that these kids were kidnapped and amber alerts were put out on them?  Are there any trials in progress or concluded?

Do you see what I mean?  It might have "felt" like they were kidnapped, (that I can understand) but in reality they were not. There is just no evidence to support this that I have seen to date.   Unless this can be supported somehow this is more than just my opinion.



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Unfortunately, the people who would ordinarily initiate the amber alert are the ones who called the kidnappers.  Oh, sorry Whooter, the armed goons who don't work for any law enforcement agency who burst into teenagers rooms in the middle of the night to handcuff them and take them into captivity.  Doesn't sound nearly as friendly as "escort service", does it?

[Whooter]

Lets say a new acquaintance and yourself were out and about and you noticed a large scar on your friends side and asked him what that was from and he responded:  
“When I was in Iraq I was shot by a Taliban terrorist and was left to die as I laid there bleeding out.  I almost died until luckily help came and they got me to a hospital.  I am lucky to be alive”.

Wow, that would be a story!  Then a few months later you are visiting with his family and his brother says to you:  
“Hey has Jim showed you his scar yet?”  
and you say:  
“Yeah, that’s awful what the Taliban did to him, I feel so bad for him and all the trauma he must have gone through.  I am so proud of him and how he has worked though all that truama”.  

His brother says:  
“Taliban? What are you talking about?  I shot him by accident in a hunting accident 2 years ago and then wrapped his wound and ran off to get help for him.  Jim, what did you tell her?”.  

Then Jim explains that he really didn’t lie to you because it felt like the same thing.  He felt like he was left to die after his brother ran off for help and if he were shot by the Taliban it wouldn’t hurt any less.  So in essence it was the same thing according to Jim.

Would everyone trust this guys word after this?  Would you believe any of his stories in the future?  Why did he tell the Taliban story instead of just saying he was shot by his brother?  Would you just accept Jim saying:

“It’s the same pain level whether it was the Taliban or my brother so what’s the big deal?  To me it felt like a terrorist attack”



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[Whooter]

Unfortunately, the people who would ordinarily initiate the amber alert are the ones who called the kidnappers.  Oh, sorry Whooter, the armed goons who don't work for any law enforcement agency who burst into teenagers rooms in the middle of the night to handcuff them and take them into captivity.  Doesn't sound nearly as friendly as "escort service", does it?

So why dont people just come out and say it, ShadyAcres?  
"Escort Service sounds too friendly and I like to embellish it up a bit to try to describe how it really felt, just like Jim did with his gun shot wound."

Why not tell the truth and say escort service and then go on to describe how harsh the process was and how you were handcuffed and tossed into a car?  Why lie and try to fool people into believing that you were actually kidnapped?  Eventually they will find out that you were not kidnapped and then your credibility will be jeopardized.



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[none-ya]

It's kidnapping when there is (and I believe psy addressed this) no due process for the minor. No lawyer. No phone call. No miranda. No rights at all. I don't know about in other states,  But a minor here, has none of these rights even when arrested by the police. No bail  Nothing.It's  like saying the repo man isn't a professional car thief. It's legal. The police should be handling these jobs. Or at least someone with more accountability. than these weekend worriors and wanna' be's. If it walks like a duck......

[Whooter]

It's kidnapping when there is (and I believe psy addressed this) no due process for the minor. No lawyer. No phone call. No miranda. No rights at all. I don't know about in other states,  But a minor here, has none of these rights even when arrested by the police. No bail  Nothing.It's  like saying the repo man isn't a professional car thief. It's legal. The police should be handling these jobs. Or at least someone with more accountability. than these weekend worriors and wanna' be's. If it walks like a duck......

I never read this, do you have a link of any type?  So if the child is forced to get in the car and go visit their grandmother it is considered Kidnapping?  If the parents force the child onto the school bus it would be kidnapping?  I dont think so, the courts would be overwhelmed.  The escort service has the parents sign over the right to transport the child to his/her destination.  So legally the escort service can take the child across state lines.  Correct me if I am wrong but I dont think the child has any rights on this until they reach age 18.



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[Froderik]

"I always lie...and I'm always right!"
-J.R. "Bob" Dobbs

[none-ya]

If the minor is not under arrest, then why can't he just say no! I ain't goin'. Because he has no rights to start with. If he dosen't go with the transporter, or won't get on the school bus, the the parents should call the cops.By the time it got to court, maybe he could get a lawyer or some sort of advocate.  to represent his(or her) wishes. problem is, kids don't have money. Nobody is lining up to represent children. It ain't safe to be a kid anywhere, anymore. And until things change. they'll just keep lining up (for a fee) to take the kids away. = LEGAL KIDNAPPING!

[DannyB II]

Another derail thread created solely to tarnish survivors. It's sad really.  Specifically when it originates from someone who takes great pride in pernicious perfidy. The interesting thing is some of the people he accuses of lying are the most balls-to-the-wall straightforward people imaginable.

Jeesh, Samara, why have we not heard you complain like this when posts were being written about others. I hate to tell you but you folks are not above lying and down right manipulative reactions.

Your quote:
"The interesting thing is some of the people he accuses of lying are the most balls-to-the-wall straightforward people imaginable".

My quote:
How about this characterization, just basic garden variety folks. See, not all the drama.