The smoking gun - do survivors lie?

[Whooter]

But a big step in getting people to listen is to try and make your story as credible as possible.

I fabricated a son

 

Sorry, folks, but I won't be lectured to about "lying" by this guy.

Watchful Yeoman,  I dont expect everyone to agree with my point of view.  I have never spent time in a program myself so I am far from an expert in this area.  Instead of taking shots at everyone and getting mad why dont you give your opinion and join the conversation?  I would be interested to know your take on the subject.



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[Anne Bonney]

I have never spent time in a program myself  

So you really have nothing to add to the discussion and just enjoy starting threads with loaded quesstions.  Gotcha.  


Until you have some experience being on the inside of one of these shitpits, we'll chalk your opinions up to being what they are.  Marketing damage control.

[Watchful Yeoman]

My take on the subject is that nobody should bother answering you, of all people, about lying.  Nobody here should be lectured by a liar such as yourself about lying.

You've never been in a program, we know that.  You never had a son at Second Nature, we know that, too.  But you have lied about both, posing a program kid and "fabricating" a child you never had.  Why the hell should anyone humor you about lying?

[DannyB II]

Ok, ok....you've given your little PSA.  Now you can pat yourself on the back for explaining to us and others who have been abused in such programs why we won't be believed by the likes of you.

But isnt that the point?  Dont you want to be believed by non program people or people who have never been inside a program?  I have heard many here state that no one believes them when they tell their story and I am pointing out a huge reason why.

Personally, I don't think a whole lot of folk will EVER believe these stories no matter what language is used. Those people will only start waking up when they hear the stories from their peers, other parents, co-workers and other folk personally known, and/or the sheer magnitude of the phenomenon accumulated over time. Hearing opinions from savvy experts can't hurt either.

All in all, I don't think the choice in words makes a huge difference. Any group of people dealing with a subset of the human experience over a period of time develops their own vernacular. Most people realize that.

But... "clear communication" wasn't really your point in starting this thread, now was it? Your point was that "survivors need to lie." This whole discussion 'bout "word usage" sounds like yet another of your obfuscating smokescreens.

They won't believe them Ursus because most people can not relate (no experience) and the extreme vernacular used here is hard to grasp. What peers are you talking about, this isn't what I would consider mainstream folks.    

[DannyB II]

But a big step in getting people to listen is to try and make your story as credible as possible.

I fabricated a son

 

Sorry, folks, but I won't be lectured to about "lying" by this guy.

My friend you are not above this conversation by a long shot.

[Whooter]

I was there and would state under oath that what Shaggy's posted is EXACTLY what I experienced when I was in Straight.  I don't give a flying fuck what DannyBoi or Whooter think or how much they froth at the mouth.

Anne if you read my response to Shaggys post you would have seen that I thought it was very credible.  I didnt need to see his hand on the bible to sway my opinion.  Sometimes the way a person presents themselves and the language they use can assist in adding credibility to their story.  Some people come across as credible because of the words they chose and a sincerity in their approach.

This plays in to what confuses me.  When faced with an opportunity to be honest and just tell the truth some people will embellish and use words for the purpose of fooling someone into believing something that didnt happen.  If the truth (in itself) is bad in its own accord then why embellish it and risk being viewed as a liar?  Do you see what I mean?



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[Watchful Yeoman]

When faced with an opportunity to be honest and just tell the truth some people will embellish and use words for the purpose of fooling someone into believing something that didnt happen.

I fabricated a son

I only see Whooter doing this.  I have yet to see a single example of a survivor doing this.

[Watchful Yeoman]

When faced with an opportunity to be honest and just tell the truth some people will embellish and use words for the purpose of fooling someone into believing something that didnt happen.

I fabricated a son

I only see Whooter doing this.  I have yet to see a single example of a survivor doing this.

Maybe Whooter can explain to the rest of us why he has done this repeatedly since 2005.

[DannyB II]

My take on the subject is that nobody should bother answering you, of all people, about lying.  Nobody here should be lectured by a liar such as yourself about lying.

You've never been in a program, we know that.  You never had a son at Second Nature, we know that, too.  But you have lied about both, posing a program kid and "fabricating" a child you never had.  Why the hell should anyone humor you about lying?

and you have lied continuously about your interpretation of what Whooter said. You have no proof of intention so you make one up to explain your prejudice.
Listen you can't really believe anyone with any sense is taking you seriously, Anne is a clerk of all things, come on. So she can spell and write a sentence or two but as far as credibility, please. She has proven herself to be a loon.
Outside of your 6 or 7 folks everyone else thinks your a joke. This whole Whooter show, has been played a dozen times, your show is no different.
Folks come and read, see the bullshit about Whooter as they have seen for years now and they get turned off and move on. One thing they do notice is DJ has changed his name, one more time. So you keep up the legacy of sock puppetry here on fornits.

[Anne Bonney]

I was there and would state under oath that what Shaggy's posted is EXACTLY what I experienced when I was in Straight.  I don't give a flying fuck what DannyBoi or Whooter think or how much they froth at the mouth.

Anne if you read my response to Shaggys post you would have seen that I thought it was very credible.  I didnt need to see his hand on the bible to sway my opinion.  Sometimes the way a person presents themselves and the language they use can assist in adding credibility to their story.  Some people come across as credible because of the words they chose and a sincerity in their approach.

My response was to DannyBoi saying that it was an embellishment.

This plays in to what confuses me.  When faced with an opportunity to be honest and just tell the truth some people will embellish and use words for the purpose of fooling someone into believing something that didnt happen.  If the truth (in itself) is bad in its own accord then why embellish it and risk being viewed as a liar?  Do you see what I mean?

They don't embellish, that's your opinion of it.  There's no need to embellish it when the actual truth is quite bad enough.

[shaggys]

I wouldn't have a reason to lie about any of what I saw and went through personally at Straight inc. The truth is more than enough. I have a son who is the same age now that I was when I went into the program. Sometimes I look at him and I think about how I must have looked at that age, sitting in that miserable group. Thats the part that makes you just wanna break down and cry about the whole thing. I can't do that shit though. I have a life with people depending on me so I gotta maintain.
We sat in group and we stared straight ahead. On the wall directly in front of the group were the 7 steps. The only reading allowed.
If you moved your eyes to glance to the side or worse yet, maybe you ever so slightly turned your head then the person sitting behind you was expected to immediately put their index finger into the side of your head just above the ear and drag that finger along the side of your scalp until it ended up by your eye. Go ahead, try it at home and see how it feels. This is just one of the bizarre little abuse rituals that were part of everyday life in that program.

[Whooter]

They don't embellish, that's your opinion of it.  There's no need to embellish it when the actual truth is quite bad enough.

That is my point if they were escorted by an escort service why not just say that?  If that in itself is bad enough why embellish it to say you were kidnapped?  Are there any reports which support that these kids were kidnapped and amber alerts were put out on them?  Are there any trials in progress or concluded?

Do you see what I mean?  It might have "felt" like they were kidnapped, (that I can understand) but in reality they were not. There is just no evidence to support this that I have seen to date.   Unless this can be supported somehow this is more than just my opinion.



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[Shadyacres]

They don't embellish, that's your opinion of it.  There's no need to embellish it when the actual truth is quite bad enough.

That is my point if they were escorted by an escort service why not just say that?  If that in itself is bad enough why embellish it to say you were kidnapped?  Are there any reports which support that these kids were kidnapped and amber alerts were put out on them?  Are there any trials in progress or concluded?

Do you see what I mean?  It might have "felt" like they were kidnapped, (that I can understand) but in reality they were not. There is just no evidence to support this that I have seen to date.   Unless this can be supported somehow this is more than just my opinion.



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Unfortunately, the people who would ordinarily initiate the amber alert are the ones who called the kidnappers.  Oh, sorry Whooter, the armed goons who don't work for any law enforcement agency who burst into teenagers rooms in the middle of the night to handcuff them and take them into captivity.  Doesn't sound nearly as friendly as "escort service", does it?

[Whooter]

Whooter, everybody lies.  What is wrong with you?  I lie myself if people are not listening to me or I am trying to get peoples attention on a topic.  It doesnt mean that I lie about everything.

Shady, I understand this.  But the problem is how can the readers differentiate between your lies and the truth.  How do we know what is real or not?  This is the trouble that posters like yourself pose to us readers.  What we suppose to believe?



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[Whooter]

Unfortunately, the people who would ordinarily initiate the amber alert are the ones who called the kidnappers.  Oh, sorry Whooter, the armed goons who don't work for any law enforcement agency who burst into teenagers rooms in the middle of the night to handcuff them and take them into captivity.  Doesn't sound nearly as friendly as "escort service", does it?

So why dont people just come out and say it, ShadyAcres?  
"Escort Service sounds too friendly and I like to embellish it up a bit to try to describe how it really felt, just like Jim did with his gun shot wound."

Why not tell the truth and say escort service and then go on to describe how harsh the process was and how you were handcuffed and tossed into a car?  Why lie and try to fool people into believing that you were actually kidnapped?  Eventually they will find out that you were not kidnapped and then your credibility will be jeopardized.



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