Cataloging TheWho/John Reuben's Lies

[Troll Control]

Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.

Paul

If I recall the conversation at all I was referring to a kid I knew in public school who rubbed his feces all over the inside of the stall, so the teacher wouldn't let him use the bathroom after that and he crapped in his pants.  But I dont see that as a public school issue, I dont conclude from this that "all" public schools keep "all" the kids from using the bathrooms.

Its not my way of thinking.  I see it as an issue with the one student and his teacher and didnt reflect at all on the policies of the Public school system in the United States.



...

Whooter.... Whooter.... Whooter....

I know distractions are kinda like your thing, but I'm not talking about that.  I am talking about you telling someone who claims to have been starved, sleep-deprived, and force to shit their own pants at a program, that it was either because the staff were assholes, or that they did what they did only because he was an asshole who earned it.  

See... when you don t take time to think, Whooter, you can sometimes reveal things about who you really are, that maybe you wish you hadn't.

This makes you a less then ideal representatives of programs that are supposed to help teens.


Paul St. John

Exactly, the staff was being an asshole or the kid was being an asshole or both.  Just like the kid in public school.  If the kid wasnt doing anything wrong then the teacher was clearly being an asshole.  If the kid was rubbing his feces all over the inside of the stall then the kid was being an asshole and deserved to crap in his pants.

I think we have already addressed the various definitions of starved in this forum... one meaning that the kid was not allowed to eat pizza on pizza night and had to eat some crap the kitchen staff threw together.... sleep deprived could mean pulling an all nighter... or having a newborn in the house.

None of the definitions or causes were defined.. just I was forced to shit in my pants, starved and sleep deprived.  Is it an industry problem, kid problem, staff issue?  We dont know what the cause was, but because you dont like my thinking gives you the right to attack me for it?  Why not question the guy who was forced to crap in his pants and find out what he did wrong if anything?



...

Wow.... I can t imagine someone saying shit like this in real life.  It is so obvious that you are full of shit...

You should be a politician if you are not already.

Paul

Whooter thinks kids being forced to shit their pants by denial of bathroom use, kids being starved (a legal definition, BTW) and kids being kept awake for two or three days during marathon workshops just might be the kid's fault.  How could anyone be certain?  

He's an asshole child abuse promoter and the biggest phony on Fornits.

[Troll Control]

You have never heard any of us ask who you folks are...

If only that were true, Danny.  For years here on Fornits people (to name a few - Whooter, Ottawa5, KarenInDallas) have been acutely interested in finding out who I am and their overt, explicit, openly stated goal has been "to get DJ fired from his job." You haven't been here long enough to know this history.  

Not only do these people want to see me "discredited" on Fornits (obviously the truth hurts and they watched as a small number of us got HLA shut down which made them fear for their own precious programs), they also want me to be unemployed and unable to support my family.  You think I'm an extremist?  You ain't seen extreme, my friend.

I cant speak for Ottawa5 or Karenfromdallas but you can take me off that list.  Anyone who has read my posts know I dont work towards getting someone fired or discrediting them.  If there is a specific post which lead you to believe that was my intent you can put up a link and we can talk about it.



...

Soooo...what's the deal with this running dialogue with yourself replete with phony quotes and no links?  That's not an attempt to discredit someone.  It's just being phony! :beat:  :roflmao:  :bs:

[Troll Control]

Anyone who has read my posts know I dont work towards getting someone fired or discrediting them. If there is a specific post which lead you to believe that was my intent you can put up a link and we can talk about it.

See below.  No links to the OP, just a link to Whooter's post.  Let's talk about it, Whooter.  Why did you lie in this post to try to discredit me?

How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000.  If I knew that,  then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is"

You have thought that since I “knew where the real money was” then that meant I was an industry person.  But what it really revealed is that there is a really good chance that you never earned an MBA to not figure out basic business math like that.  Anyone with any business knowledge could figure that out in their head, DJ.  So you see you shot yourself in the foot by claiming only and industry person could figure this out and by saying that you showed us that you had no business degree.


Link



...

Whooter is what he accuses others of.  Funny, huh?  And this guy expects people to believe what he says for what reason now?

[Whooter]

Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.

After you edited your posts you wrote this:  which is your education history:

DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:

June 30 post on DJ's education

A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years.  Here is an example.  Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:

June 30, 2010

DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years

Why would you go back 5 years and started editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?

Just asking.  Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.

Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry?  Were you truthful about that too?  Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks?  Do you want to take a  look at that next?

See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ.  You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.



...

[Troll Control]

Anyone who has read my posts know I dont work towards getting someone fired or discrediting them. If there is a specific post which lead you to believe that was my intent you can put up a link and we can talk about it.

See below.  No links to the OP, just a link to Whooter's post.  Let's talk about it, Whooter.  Why did you lie in this post to try to discredit me?

How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000.  If I knew that,  then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is"

You have thought that since I “knew where the real money was” then that meant I was an industry person.  But what it really revealed is that there is a really good chance that you never earned an MBA to not figure out basic business math like that.  Anyone with any business knowledge could figure that out in their head, DJ.  So you see you shot yourself in the foot by claiming only and industry person could figure this out and by saying that you showed us that you had no business degree.


Link



...

Whooter is what he accuses others of.  Funny, huh?  And this guy expects people to believe what he says for what reason now?

Were you lying when you said you didn't act this way, Whooter?  It appears so.

[Whooter]

Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.

After you edited your posts you wrote this:  which is your education history:

DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:

June 30 post on DJ's education

A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years.  Here is an example.  Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:

June 30, 2010

DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years

Why would you go back 5 years and started editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?

Just asking.  Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.

Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry?  Were you truthful about that too?  Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks?  Do you want to take a  look at that next?

See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ.  You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.



...

[Troll Control]

I'll let you in on the joke now, Whooter, since you've embarrassed yourself so thoroughly.  Take a look.

Original post from March 27, 2005:

On 2005-03-27 08:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"you know what? Not everyone had a bad experience with DV. You need to take a look at yourself and see why you did.

I admit that there were some things that were a little over the top, but you're talking about a different time, different epidemic and different training.

A TC is not only governed by the founders, but also by law. At the time places like Synanon was founded, there were no governing laws. yes, it was all about brainwashing, brain shocking, or whatever you want to call it, to make a person get off drugs. Ever see the movie " A Clockwork Orange?" Stanley Kubrick had it right. That's what happened back then. There were no laws governing what was supposed to be done.

It's much easier to treat the underlying problem of the epidemic. case in point, when you go into a treatment facility such as the intake facility where you stay for 3 or more weeks, you have detoxed whatever drugs are in your system. DV and other TC's took that a step further. They then treated the underlying problem. Whether it was family problems, peer pressure, etc.

As i stated before, when i was in DV, the main addition was heroin. Older people addicted to heroin for so many years that a TC was there last hope. And it worked.

Today, people are paroled to TC's, people use it as a way to stay out of jail and don't put in the time they need to deal with all the other bullshit that comes with dealing with the problem.

I've seen how DV changed to the times. I've seen how they have to treat the crackhead as opposed to the heroin addict. You can't apply a philosophy of "responsible, Love, & concern or "act as if" to a crackhead who is trying to stay out of jail. Those are a crackhead's manipulation tactics. That's all they know.

So DV and other TC's have had to change their ways of thinking and treatment. And yes, even in terms of terminology, they've had to change.

For example: The DV philosophy, used to be begin "we are" Not I. They changed to back in 86 because of the new wave of abusers coming in, crackheads. What used to be called members are now called residents. Do you see my point, idiot. It's about changing the way you treat the person. You can't treat a crackhead the same way you treat a heroin addict. It doesn't work. Heroin addicts actually have a heart.

Now you want to talk about staff. I recall reading someone saying that the reason old school staff are trying to push out the more educated is because they are afraid. And to a point, that person was correct. They are afraid of seeing DV change in a way that's not about the mission. The mission was and still is solid. But laws change and epidemics change.

Hep C is what DV used to have to deal with heroin addicts. Now they also have to deal AIDS. There are all kinds of laws now that says what you can and can't do with someone who had AIDS.

I'll never forget the first person who was diagnosed with AIDS at DV. His name was Sammy. He became the poster boy ( for lack of a better term) but he changed the way DV thought in terms of treating someone who was ill.

Look, i'm not saying that DV and other TC's are the greatest. You get out what you put in. I did my time old school style and obviously had a better experience than you young bucks did, but take it for what it's worth. Look at this way. People in the social services industry are not in it for the money. They go into it believing that they can make a difference. What they find is that the system is so screwed up that they're just one little insignificant cog on that big wheel of bullshit that is every evolving to more bullshit and they see that after time they can do one of two things, go with the program or get out. That's my advice to you, accept the change, chalk it up to a bad experience and move on. One more thing.

So am i still drinking the Kool-AID? Damn right, because i don't have to deal with the bullshit that you spout about your bad experiences and why you couldn't get with the program. So, are u still smoking crack? and tell me, how long was it before your first relapse?"

Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.

Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident.  I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.

Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to, I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities.  This is not my opinion, this is fact.

Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," they "would understand."  Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter.  Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls.  Open your ass").  Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.

Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.

Conclusion:  You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.

Sad, yes.  True, indeed.

Same post quoted by Guest the same day (Guest's added his/her comments in parentheses in the quote of my post):

Link to identical text in guest post from the same day as my original post:

Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.

(obviously you had a bad experience whether you worked there or was a resident or you would still be working there. I'm going to assume that you left on your own free will either because of money, seeing things you didn't like, etc.. hence my words, bad experience and just to clarify, my term of "young buck" doesn't refer to your age, but at the time in which you were affiliated with DV. If I'm not mistaken you said you worked with DV in 95. I had been affiliated with DV since '82, which meant to ME that i'm closer to the old school style of the way things were done than you were. If that offended you, then i apologize.)

Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.

(Well, i'm proud that you're educated. I'm not on a soap box because i have never experienced DV or any TC as an employee, but hell, they must be doing something right classically educated employees are still there)

Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to,

( of course i'm going to see some things through rose colored glasses, i lived it, at some point couldn't see outside it, it was all i knew at the time and i can't apologize for that),

I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities. This is not my opinion, this is fact.
(and just out of curiosity, what if anything have you done about it? or did you just let injustices keep happening until you bailed?)

Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," (never ever did i say what he did was right. That never came out in any of my writing. Maybe you are just too blinded by your hatred of Frank, DV or TC's in general that you need to read between the lines of something that i didn't say)
they "would understand." Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter. Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls. Open your ass"). Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.

(I personally hated body searches. I didn't agree with them and there were a few times i refused to do them. My alternative was to not be admitted to the program. Look, being subjected to a full body search is/was never okay by someone who didn't know what they were doing. It was a lesson in humility that happened once. When you got there. If you happened to leave (AWOL) and come back, yes, it was done again. For protection of all. You don't see it that way and probably never will. But you know what, the person getting screened has done worse on the streets using drugs, so WTF)

Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.

When i was in DV, it was rare that they accepted anyone who committed a violent crime, who was court-ordered. The problem is that it's the norm now for a criminal to be court-ordered to a TC if they have drug abuse in their history. Whose fault is that, the TC's).

Look as i said before, TC's are not for everyone and definitely not for today's drug users. Everyone who enters a TC seems to be coddled now, even down to the term "hard core drug user" to "substance abuser", what the hell is that all about. and if crackheads and methamp users aren't the worse users, tell me who is?

Tell me something, are you still in social services industry, or did you give it up because you were fighting a losing battle?

Conclusion: You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.

(your conclusion is based on nothing, so i won't even comment on that further. other than to say you have the right to your opinion as i have the right to mine. You see it from a clinical standpoint and i see it from someone whose lived through it. Yeah, we are going to see it differently)

Sad, yes. True, indeed.

The text in both posts is identical.  A Guest's quote from 2005 is identical to my original post (oops).  I suppose now you're going to say the anonymous guest with no ability to edit posts magically became able to edit posts and also "altered" a post from five years ago to match my "altered" post, lols.  When are you going to learn, Whooter?  I'm a chess player and you're a checker player.

See, Whooter, you are so desperate to "get" me that I easily wound you up like a top, set you off and watched you spin, controlling your actions like I had a joystick in my hand.  Watched as you pulled out several identites and augured yourself into the ground, all while blissfully ignorant that the post was not changed at all. All I did in my original post was take out a period (which I reinserted today, for integrity's sake) so that the edit stamp would be there to get you drooling with delight thinking you cornered me on something and knowing full well you'd be too lazy to look one page ahead and see my post was quoted contemporaneously by a guest and we all know guest posts can't be edited.

Yeah, I shined you on for a bit, telling you I edited out my name so you would jump on that, poking fun at your "timeline," shifting the focus, etc. simply so you would go into overdrive with your compulsion, just to watch you make a fool out of yourself again.  Please feel free to go back and compare the text of both posts and tell me exactly how mine was "altered." You're too easy, man.  I hope you learned something from this exercise.  You played yourself again.  Keep flailing away.  It's funny.

[edited to add url at top of post - don't want Whooter getting all riled up over the edit stamp ; ) ]

Well, there goes that theory - post is identical as the guest quoted five years ago.  You still don't get it, Whooter.  I can get you to act this way any time I want.  I did it to you again today and here you are still trolling and making up phony "quotes."  You only damage yourself.  You're a phony troll.

[Troll Control]

"Fiduciary interest in Aspen Education"

"Chaired TTI meetings about 'where the real money is, the TBS industry'"

"Saw 'the screening process firsthand' and 'kids being rejected'"

"Had access to RobertBruce's 'treatment records from HLA'"

"Formed 'statistical group to assess the safety of TBSs'"

"Children are products, parents are customers"

Sorry, Whooter, but all of this does add up.  Maybe one bit here or there is an anomaly, but these facts plus many too more to list accompanied by your dogged defense of abusive Aspen programs and five years' worth of posting under several usernames to either promote abusive programs or degrade anyone who speaks out against them...?   It just doesn't fit your "just a regular parent" line.  No "regular parent" would behave like you do.

Whooter is a TTI industry man and Fornits troll.  Everyone should keep this in mind when reading his drivel.

This little post, with nothing but truth in it, set off Whooter on his latest trolling spree, as I knew it would.  I tell the truth about what he has admitted and he is kept busy for a whole day embarassing himself again and again.  He's easy to control because he has a sickness that is on display here now.  

Keep this in mind when he's trying to pretend to be "just a regular parent."

[Whooter]

Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.

After you edited your posts you wrote this:  which is your education history:

DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:

June 30 post on DJ's education

A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years.  Here is an example.  Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:

June 30, 2010

DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years

Why would you go back 5 years and started editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?

Just asking.  Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.

Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry?  Were you truthful about that too?  Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks?  Do you want to take a  look at that next?

See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ.  You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.



...

[Whooter]

How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000.  If I knew that,  then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is"

You have thought that since I “knew where the real money was” then that meant I was an industry person.  But what it really revealed is that there is a really good chance that you never earned an MBA to not figure out basic business math like that.  Anyone with any business knowledge could figure that out in their head, DJ.  So you see you shot yourself in the foot by claiming only and industry person could figure this out and by saying that you showed us that you had no business degree.


Link



...

[Troll Control]

I'll let you in on the joke now, Whooter, since you've embarrassed yourself so thoroughly.  Take a look.

Original post from March 27, 2005:

On 2005-03-27 08:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"you know what? Not everyone had a bad experience with DV. You need to take a look at yourself and see why you did.

I admit that there were some things that were a little over the top, but you're talking about a different time, different epidemic and different training.

A TC is not only governed by the founders, but also by law. At the time places like Synanon was founded, there were no governing laws. yes, it was all about brainwashing, brain shocking, or whatever you want to call it, to make a person get off drugs. Ever see the movie " A Clockwork Orange?" Stanley Kubrick had it right. That's what happened back then. There were no laws governing what was supposed to be done.

It's much easier to treat the underlying problem of the epidemic. case in point, when you go into a treatment facility such as the intake facility where you stay for 3 or more weeks, you have detoxed whatever drugs are in your system. DV and other TC's took that a step further. They then treated the underlying problem. Whether it was family problems, peer pressure, etc.

As i stated before, when i was in DV, the main addition was heroin. Older people addicted to heroin for so many years that a TC was there last hope. And it worked.

Today, people are paroled to TC's, people use it as a way to stay out of jail and don't put in the time they need to deal with all the other bullshit that comes with dealing with the problem.

I've seen how DV changed to the times. I've seen how they have to treat the crackhead as opposed to the heroin addict. You can't apply a philosophy of "responsible, Love, & concern or "act as if" to a crackhead who is trying to stay out of jail. Those are a crackhead's manipulation tactics. That's all they know.

So DV and other TC's have had to change their ways of thinking and treatment. And yes, even in terms of terminology, they've had to change.

For example: The DV philosophy, used to be begin "we are" Not I. They changed to back in 86 because of the new wave of abusers coming in, crackheads. What used to be called members are now called residents. Do you see my point, idiot. It's about changing the way you treat the person. You can't treat a crackhead the same way you treat a heroin addict. It doesn't work. Heroin addicts actually have a heart.

Now you want to talk about staff. I recall reading someone saying that the reason old school staff are trying to push out the more educated is because they are afraid. And to a point, that person was correct. They are afraid of seeing DV change in a way that's not about the mission. The mission was and still is solid. But laws change and epidemics change.

Hep C is what DV used to have to deal with heroin addicts. Now they also have to deal AIDS. There are all kinds of laws now that says what you can and can't do with someone who had AIDS.

I'll never forget the first person who was diagnosed with AIDS at DV. His name was Sammy. He became the poster boy ( for lack of a better term) but he changed the way DV thought in terms of treating someone who was ill.

Look, i'm not saying that DV and other TC's are the greatest. You get out what you put in. I did my time old school style and obviously had a better experience than you young bucks did, but take it for what it's worth. Look at this way. People in the social services industry are not in it for the money. They go into it believing that they can make a difference. What they find is that the system is so screwed up that they're just one little insignificant cog on that big wheel of bullshit that is every evolving to more bullshit and they see that after time they can do one of two things, go with the program or get out. That's my advice to you, accept the change, chalk it up to a bad experience and move on. One more thing.

So am i still drinking the Kool-AID? Damn right, because i don't have to deal with the bullshit that you spout about your bad experiences and why you couldn't get with the program. So, are u still smoking crack? and tell me, how long was it before your first relapse?"

Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.

Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident.  I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.

Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to, I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities.  This is not my opinion, this is fact.

Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," they "would understand."  Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter.  Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls.  Open your ass").  Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.

Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.

Conclusion:  You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.

Sad, yes.  True, indeed.

Same post quoted by Guest the same day (Guest's added his/her comments in parentheses in the quote of my post):

Link to identical text in guest post from the same day as my original post:

Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.

(obviously you had a bad experience whether you worked there or was a resident or you would still be working there. I'm going to assume that you left on your own free will either because of money, seeing things you didn't like, etc.. hence my words, bad experience and just to clarify, my term of "young buck" doesn't refer to your age, but at the time in which you were affiliated with DV. If I'm not mistaken you said you worked with DV in 95. I had been affiliated with DV since '82, which meant to ME that i'm closer to the old school style of the way things were done than you were. If that offended you, then i apologize.)

Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.

(Well, i'm proud that you're educated. I'm not on a soap box because i have never experienced DV or any TC as an employee, but hell, they must be doing something right classically educated employees are still there)

Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to,

( of course i'm going to see some things through rose colored glasses, i lived it, at some point couldn't see outside it, it was all i knew at the time and i can't apologize for that),

I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities. This is not my opinion, this is fact.
(and just out of curiosity, what if anything have you done about it? or did you just let injustices keep happening until you bailed?)

Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," (never ever did i say what he did was right. That never came out in any of my writing. Maybe you are just too blinded by your hatred of Frank, DV or TC's in general that you need to read between the lines of something that i didn't say)
they "would understand." Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter. Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls. Open your ass"). Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.

(I personally hated body searches. I didn't agree with them and there were a few times i refused to do them. My alternative was to not be admitted to the program. Look, being subjected to a full body search is/was never okay by someone who didn't know what they were doing. It was a lesson in humility that happened once. When you got there. If you happened to leave (AWOL) and come back, yes, it was done again. For protection of all. You don't see it that way and probably never will. But you know what, the person getting screened has done worse on the streets using drugs, so WTF)

Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.

When i was in DV, it was rare that they accepted anyone who committed a violent crime, who was court-ordered. The problem is that it's the norm now for a criminal to be court-ordered to a TC if they have drug abuse in their history. Whose fault is that, the TC's).

Look as i said before, TC's are not for everyone and definitely not for today's drug users. Everyone who enters a TC seems to be coddled now, even down to the term "hard core drug user" to "substance abuser", what the hell is that all about. and if crackheads and methamp users aren't the worse users, tell me who is?

Tell me something, are you still in social services industry, or did you give it up because you were fighting a losing battle?

Conclusion: You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.

(your conclusion is based on nothing, so i won't even comment on that further. other than to say you have the right to your opinion as i have the right to mine. You see it from a clinical standpoint and i see it from someone whose lived through it. Yeah, we are going to see it differently)

Sad, yes. True, indeed.

The text in both posts is identical.  A Guest's quote from 2005 is identical to my original post (oops).  I suppose now you're going to say the anonymous guest with no ability to edit posts magically became able to edit posts and also "altered" a post from five years ago to match my "altered" post, lols.  When are you going to learn, Whooter?  I'm a chess player and you're a checker player.

See, Whooter, you are so desperate to "get" me that I easily wound you up like a top, set you off and watched you spin, controlling your actions like I had a joystick in my hand.  Watched as you pulled out several identites and augured yourself into the ground, all while blissfully ignorant that the post was not changed at all. All I did in my original post was take out a period (which I reinserted today, for integrity's sake) so that the edit stamp would be there to get you drooling with delight thinking you cornered me on something and knowing full well you'd be too lazy to look one page ahead and see my post was quoted contemporaneously by a guest and we all know guest posts can't be edited.

Yeah, I shined you on for a bit, telling you I edited out my name so you would jump on that, poking fun at your "timeline," shifting the focus, etc. simply so you would go into overdrive with your compulsion, just to watch you make a fool out of yourself again.  Please feel free to go back and compare the text of both posts and tell me exactly how mine was "altered." You're too easy, man.  I hope you learned something from this exercise.  You played yourself again.  Keep flailing away.  It's funny.

[edited to add url at top of post - don't want Whooter getting all riled up over the edit stamp ; ) ]

Well, there goes that theory - post is identical as the guest quoted five years ago.  You still don't get it, Whooter.  I can get you to act this way any time I want.  I did it to you again today and here you are still trolling and making up phony "quotes."  You only damage yourself.  You're a phony troll.

It wasn't changed, Whooter.  That has been established.  You were just too lazy to check before you pulled out the aliases and went on your last trolling spree.  Now I got you to go on another today, just to show people what you are.  Your desperation to avoid your own words is on full display.  You are a desperate phony troll, buddy.

[Whooter]

Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.

After you edited your posts you wrote this:  which is your education history:

DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:

June 30 post on DJ's education

A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years.  Here is an example.  Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:

June 30, 2010

DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years

Why would you go back 5 years and started editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?

Just asking.  Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.

Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry?  Were you truthful about that too?  Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks?  Do you want to take a  look at that next?

See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ.  You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.



...

sting!!!!  wont go away.  lol

[Troll Control]

Even if what you were saying were even remotely true, which it isn't, we'd still be stuck with the fact that you have lied about yourself many times.  I just quote you.  You don't like it.  And you lose control.  

You have never provided a single post of mine that shows I lied.  I posted a dozen of yours today that prove you did.  All you can do is troll to try to make it go away, but it doesn't.  

I often wonder what it's like to be you - to have absolutely no control over your own actions.  I can make you do whatever I want whenever I want.  How?  Just link to a post of yours you desperately want to avoid.  Then you're busy all day trolling.  It's really not that deep.  Maybe you can try some twelve step programs?

Now you have a good night trolling and neglecting your family.  Do they wonder why you are on Fornits all day every day and all night every night?  Don't answer (not that you won't lols), it's rhetorical.

[Whooter]

How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000.  If I knew that,  then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".

I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA

Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do.  Your an industry shill.  I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.

Look, DJ, calm down.  You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy.  I just did the math for you thats all.  If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way.  I just think your wrong thats all.  Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.

Just stating my opinion, thats all.



...

[Whooter]

Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.

After you edited your posts you wrote this:  which is your education history:

DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:

June 30 post on DJ's education

A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years.  Here is an example.  Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:

June 30, 2010

DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years

Why would you go back 5 years and started editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?

Just asking.  Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.

Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry?  Were you truthful about that too?  Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks?  Do you want to take a  look at that next?

See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ.  You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.



...

sting!!!!  wont go away.  lol