Author Topic: Latest New York Times Piece  (Read 12151 times)

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Offline Jeff_Berryman

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hen I mount my horse, ALL THE WINDMILLS IN SPAIN TREMBLE!

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2003, 02:23:00 PM »
It's good to see that Tim is finally showing SOME accountability, though the report is STILL slanting toward the negative.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2003, 03:08:00 PM »
WWASP ABUSES KIDS MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY!!

YOU CANT HIDE FROM THE PUBLIC


WWASPS BEATS KIDS INTO SUBMISSION IF THEY DO NOT "COOPERATE".

TIME FOR FEDERAL ACTION, HAVE FUN
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2003, 03:11:00 PM »
The founder, Robert B. Lichfield, 49, called the accusations part of a difficult business. "When you have troubled kids and troubled parents ? any school or program that works with troubled kids has complaints," Mr. Lichfield said in a telephone interview. "We're no different."

To that I agree!  

For the vast majority of graduates and parents, it changed our way of communicating with each other which I know is the single most important value in our family.

It didn't damage our family, it was already damaged.  I take accountability for what led up to his being admitted to Spring Creek Lodge.

And for the vast majority of parents that attend the personal growth seminars, we have been given a gift that gave us the tools to have a successful family life.  Success is always a personal definition, but I do know, even if I tried, really tried, I could never be the same parent I was prior to our program experience. I'm not making the same mistakes with my other son.

I never felt sleep deprived, I had 8 hours of sleep a night, what I felt was a huge weight had been lifted from my back.  I had carried around a lot of garbage for a long time.  For those not willing to take a deep look at their own lives, I can see where the process of digging deep would be not only uncomfortable, but impossible.  

It only works for those that are willing to change. The lawyer that thinks her son was abused, question?  Did your son not choose to stay in the Hobbit?  If he wasn't willing to follow the rules he chose to hide out in the hobbit and write all day.  He wasn't open to working.  Neither were you and it's good that you chose to bring him home.  It's not for you.  It was for us.

We went the distance and graduated, both in our own program.  Over two years later, life is what it is - lots of learning and growing.

My son was never drugged and his FR was honest, telling me things I would have preferred NOT to hear.  They've changed some things since then, maybe for the better, maybe only better for the parents, but I would never change our experience.
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Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2003, 03:38:00 PM »
"It only works for those that are willing to change. The lawyer that thinks her son was abused, question? Did your son not choose to stay in the Hobbit? If he wasn't willing to follow the rules he chose to hide out in the hobbit and write all day. He wasn't open to working. Neither were you and it's good that you chose to bring him home. It's not for you. It was for us."

How DARE you presume to know why a program did not work for someone else.  That's fine that you say the program worked for you, but you're putting the responsibility on the other person for the program not working...that's such a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If this program doesn;'t work, it's just because YOU don't want to dig deep enough.  BULLSHIT.  This type of condescending attitude is so typical of "program people".  If someone disagrees with "the program" then they're not honest, or just resentful, or not willing to work the program".  I am so sick of that shit.  Surprise, that's another sign of a cult attitude.  Can't even conceive that there might be a flaw in their precious program.  When you HONESTLY look at the treatment modalities of these programs...they are taken DIRECTLY from known cults!!!  Isolation, repetition, control of information, peer pressure...all of it.  If you are forced into a group for a period of months or years and outside communication is severely controlled and the only thing you are exposed to are these people who keep telling you how much they care and how wonderful their lives are now that they've accepted the program day in and day out...it's almost inevitable.  They have no other frame of reference and are thus vulnerable to the brainwashing.  What is being billed as a cure is a killer and now people are finally taking a stand and saying NO MORE.
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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2003, 03:48:00 PM »
"When you HONESTLY look at the treatment modalities of these programs...they are taken DIRECTLY from known cults!!! Isolation, repetition, control of information, peer pressure...all of it. If you are forced into a group for a period of months or years and outside communication is severely controlled..."

Can you tell me what JAIL/ Prison / Military means in all of this?  Same, different, what?  Difference to me is that the WWASPS programs actually help anyone that wants to change - what's CULT about that?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2003, 03:50:00 PM »
P.S. - What's PERFECT?  Of course there are flaws, imperfections.  Maybe the poster already knows that and just assumed she knows life isn't perfect nor fair.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2003, 04:13:00 PM »
"...but you're putting the responsibility on the other person for the program not working."

Response: In other words, THEY are supposed to do it for you? If not YOU, WHO?

I've never seen anywhere that they say it's a cure or even a fix.  Clue me in, I don't know everything.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2003, 05:25:00 PM »
Gee,  I was beginning to miss having all you WWASPies around the last few days.  

Another month, another dubious program exposed.   Can ya smell what the Sous Chef is cookin'?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2003, 05:32:00 PM »
Denial. Denial. Denial.

WWASP is a profitable cult damaging hundreds of families each year. How greedy can parents be to just leave their children in the hands of WWASP after learning their disturbing past. How many more facilities need to close, how many more abuse cases, how many more news articles need to be written before parents realize what the truth really is.
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Offline MelissaR

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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2003, 05:45:00 PM »
I really want to read the article! I think I'm in it!!!!!!! But the link won't work!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2003, 05:48:00 PM »
If punishment worked effectively to change people's behavior, we wouldn't have recidivism following prison -- which we do at a rate of about 66%, varying depending on the crime and educ background of the offender.

If WWASP people are saying "it only works if you work it," then why do you need something tough?

The gentle programs only work if you work it, too-- but they at least do not harm people.

If WWASP people are such great believers in accountablity, why don't they cringe when they read the Lichfields' blaming low level employees for any abuse that may occur and blaming the regulators and journalists for previous closures and blaming everyone but themselves when people don't do well?

If everyone makes their own reality, the WWASP people clearly aren't very good at it-- and if you want a program that teaches personal responsibility, why are you defending one where accountability doesn't start at the top?

WWASP is desperately spinning-- we're not going to use the hobbit anymore, the hobbit is fine, tough is good, we're not that tough, we are tougher than anyone, it was rogue employees, no it was the media, no it was someone who was disgruntled because she was over 30 and not married, no it was the evil Costa Rican prosecutor, we can fix your kid, no we can't fix anyone, we're therapy, no we're not, we're behavior modfication, no we're an emotional growth school, a military school... come on!
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Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2003, 06:04:00 PM »
Jail and the military don't restrict access to the outside world/family/friends for months or years at a time.  Military personnel and even prisoners are allowed to read the paper, watch the news, write or call family and friends...and by the way, the military is VOLUNTARY.

No, no one is supposed to change my life for me...I'm responsible.  The point I was making was that no matter what the actual reason for someone "not making it" in the program (I hate to even use that phrase, just because someone leaves a program doesn't mean they haven't "made it") the program people will always say it was because they didn't honestly work it, or dig deep enough or whatever, placing all the blame on the individual, not even considering that maybe there is something wrong with the program or that there may be other reasons.  It's just like the AA shit of "rarely have we seen a person fail who has truly followed our path" or however it goes.  That just sets someone up PLUS it's a load of shit.

If whatever program you or your family was in worked and your lives are better because of it, great but those of us who have been there KNOW what it's like.  I am 38 years old and STILL have nightmares, trouble dealing with confrontation, anger control and I had NONE of those problems before I was put in there.  I've seen a lot of abuse in my life but none as sinister as that of what I went through in there.  I love the way they set the kids up not to be believed by the parents...'now your druggie kid may try and play on your sympathies or make things up to try and get out of here, but don't listen...it's just they're druggie tendencies'. So, if a kid is truly being abused, as many of us were, how are we supposed to get any help???  And all this was done under the cloak of "helping the kids".  What a crock of shit.  Go read the story on http://www.thestraights.com about Lulu Corter and tell me how much of her THIRTEEN YEAR incarceration was because she wasn't digging deep enough.

Wake up
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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2003, 07:49:00 PM »
Sorry Melissa - you're not newsworthy enough, apparently - you're not in it.   :wink:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2003, 07:51:00 PM »
cayohuesto - which WWASPS program were you in?
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