Do you think programs help troubled teens?

[Anonymous]

Curious George should get stove-piped in the ass by a horse.  That would help Curious George relax.

[Whooter]

Therapist: Hello Mr. Myers what I think is best is to recommend that Jimmy be placed in a residential treatment program, Somplace where he will be safe from others and himself.

Dad:What is this place a school of some type?

Therapist: Yes, sort of, they provide therapy and specialize in the types of needs that would benefit Jimmy.

DAD:Is this place local?

Therapist: Well, I have looked into it an the one I recommend and know to be successful is Aspen Ranch in Utah

DAD: Wow,that’s kind of far.

Therapist: They are exspensive so it would be a commitment so I need you to think about whether this is something you are willing to commit and follow through with.  Jimmy will get the help he needs there but it will be a long time away from home.  I will send you some information, a brochure and if you would like to speak with them or take a trip out there first they would be more than happy to accomidate you.
Give it some thought over the weekend and give me a call on Monday and we can get the ball rolling.  In the mean time try not to confront Jimmy on any of the issues until we speak.

Now what does this  Dad really know?  The average father doesnt know what TBS means or residential treatment.  Maybe his wife does if she watches Dr. Phil..... so he knows the name of the place?   Aspen Ranch, Utah.  The only other thing he knows is Aspen Ranch…..  So lets google that which is what any parent would do.

Page 1 we go from Aspen Ranchs web site down to

CRCHealth .com  
Everything in between is Aspen related.

Next:  lets google Residential Treatment
We get:
Circle tree ranch
American residential treatment association
Down to youth villages.com
So it is fair to assume it is an honest and thriving industry which is well know.  He isn’t a bad guy, look up the industry, but there wasn’t anything about straight, kids of NJ or brain washing, abuse…. No stories like we read here on fornits.

So why is this guy such a shit for placing his kid?  What warning signs did he ignore? He loves his son and wants him back in the fold and the only thing he is really sure of is it isn’t working the way it is going now.

What should he do differently?  and how do we reach him?

[Anonymous]

Contracts and such have been posted on Fornits repeatedly.

Any sane parent reading one would go FUCK NO.

[Anonymous]

Bear in mind parents are often intimidated or unaware what questions to ask.  In my opinion, I don't think Curious George remembers all questions that were asked.  The previous comment was not meant to humiliate CG.  In my humble opinion, it would be more productive to post a list of questions for parents to ask.  The aforesaid statement does not represent support for programs.

[psy]

Parents can ask as many questions as they like from a program -- even really good ones -- it doesn't mean they're going to get an honest answer, even if it's in writing.  I won't bother listing the BS my parents and myself were told.  Almost everything was either a flat out lie or a massive distortion -- all very deliberate.

The truth of the matter is that there is no way for parents, or anybody for that matter, to tell a "bad" program from a "good" one -- that is what makes them all unacceptably dangerous.  It's like playing Russian roulette on your kid.  By the times one finds out for sure it's generally far too late.

This isn't even mentioning the fact that many programs would go out of business if they were honest and open about what they provided.  They rely on deceptive marketing for operation and it's what allows the bad programs to suceed.  "Good" programs can't exist in the current program culture where a lack of ethics is absolutely required to stay above water.  For example, if a program doesn't pay ed-cons for referrals, they don't get kids.  If programs admit their "group" is not "group therapy", nobody would put their kid in the situation -- and so forth.  Programs love to talk out of both sides of their mouth.  Just look at Aspen which advertises to treat kids and then when held to medical standards turns around in court and claims it doesn't provide medical services.

A few things that could help to fix this situation is both education of parents and a willingness of those who have made mistakes to hold the programs accountable by suing them in civil court on the basis of fraudulent misrepresentation and/or malpractice, etc...  Without education parents won't realize until too late (statute of limitations in many states) and without people willing to hold them accountable they only ensure it will continue to happen to other families.  Programs need some incentive to be honest.  "We might get sued" is a pretty good motivation for most corporations.

Shit...  and the ultimate hypocracy is how they yell at the kids telling them to "get honest" and accuse them of being manipulators.

[AuntieEm2]

YA what she said! :notworthy:

so what I am reading is in the absence of data or facts you just make it up?

Ha. Yes, in the absence of legitimate data or facts, corporate programs are just making up the success rates they boast.

But we can trust multi-billion doallar investment companies...right? They wouldn't deceive and rip off vulnerable, gullible people just for profit..would they?

Auntie Em

[Anonymous]

The who ignored this comment I wonder why?

Most of these programs, whether they actually spell it out or not, use group peer pressure as a means of control, as well as a means of projecting "the program" down kids' throats.

Group peer pressure -- in such an environment, where there is no escaping it -- is actually a form of program-sanctioned bullying, regardless of whether you call it "positive peer culture," a "supportive therapeutic milieu," "brother's keeper," or what have you. The basic gist of it all boils down to the kid having no choice over whether or not to participate (if s/he wants to progress in the program and get the hell out of there), and the group-think being enforced by more or less the entire environment of peers.

Bullying does have a statistical correlation with increased risk of suicide.

[Whooter]

YA what she said! :notworthy:

so what I am reading is in the absence of data or facts you just make it up?

Ha. Yes, in the absence of legitimate data or facts, corporate programs are just making up the success rates they boast.

But we can trust multi-billion doallar investment companies...right? They wouldn't deceive and rip off vulnerable, gullible people just for profit..would they?

Auntie Em

You got that right.  Our local hospital has a sign up touting that it is one of the top 100 hospitals for cancer research and patient satisfaction.  Same crap the programs do, send out surveys and then the doctors count them out.  We all know they are just trying to drum up business.
We dont have any dependable studies that we can trust so we just dont know.  The next best thing is to call the program and ask to speak with parents who have had kids attend.  This way you can get a first hand scoop on the place and they will be able to relate to the way you feel.  People should do the same thing with hospitals, ask to speak with some former patients, never rely totally on these surveys,especially when it is your health or the health of your child.

[Anonymous]

^^^ the who obfuscating and avoiding once again so obvious

Suicide makes you uncomfortable doesnt it whooter?

[AuntieEm2]

The next best thing is to call the program and ask to speak with parents who have had kids attend. This way you can get a first hand scoop on the place and they will be able to relate to the way you feel.

Nice try, guest. But the parents the program will refer you to are pre-screened to deliver a positive report, and they will often receive free tuition or a kickback fee for their recommendation.

So one must at minimum encourage parents considering a program to read the sworn testimony before Congress by parents whose children DIED at the hands of corporate programs, and learn what they say about how they were lied to and manipulated into enrolling their children.
Parent testimony 1: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007CynthiaHarveyTestimony.pdf
Parent testimony 2: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007BobBaconTestimony.pdf
Parent testimony 3: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007PaulLewisTestimony.pdf

And you, too, any fool can see, are paid by a corporation to respond quickly to any criticism of a program. You, guest, have a profit motive, and you yourself have said we should not trust people like you!

I am just a lowly auntie whose niece was ripped away from a caring, loving family for more than three years (at a cost of more than a quarter million dollars). No one except a parent was allowed to see or talk to or write this child for three years--not siblings, not grandparents, not clergy, not teachers, and definitely not aunties with troublesome questions. Outcomes in this study of one? Abused child, ruptured family, broke parents, and a very profitable corporation.

Auntie Em

[Whooter]

I am just a parent, I have no profit motive and I was never pre screened by any program but received calls from parents all the time asking what my experience was (especially after the TV interview).  I told them the good with the bad.  I have spoken to other parents who report good and bad facets of the program.  Shortly after my daughter returned home a news crew showed up at my door asking for me to do and interview after a child in Texas (or somewhere down south) died after leaving a program.  I initially refused but after they came back the next day (or a different network) I agreed.  I spoke honestly about the program and reported the good along with the bad as most people would do.  Most people are balanced and honest.  You are use to the information here on fornits which is never positive or balanced in nature when the topic is programs.  Everything is coated with a negative spin.  You have been around this world long enough to know that there are really good people who work in programs, good staff people etc.  I know first hand because I have met them.... how often are they brought up?  How many discuss the good times and friends they made?  I think even you are able to realize this, auntieEm.

I am sure if I lost a child to a program I would not have anything nice to say about them even if the program was a good one so these parents would be just as bias and I dont blame them.  I understand that the parents the program recommends would be handpicked, but they are still parents who went thru the same process that that the calling parent went thru and would be able to provide valuable information.  Do you think a survivor here on fornits who was abused or didn’t do well would report the positive side of their stay in a program?  Do you think the reader gets a real and balanced view of what programs are all about?
We both know the answer to those questions.  So in the absence of data the next best thing is to speak with those who have experienced the programs first hand and had children attend them.

I am just a lowly auntie whose niece was ripped away from a caring, loving family for more than three years (at a cost of more than a quarter million dollars). No one except a parent was allowed to see or talk to or write this child for three years--not siblings, not grandparents, not clergy, not teachers, and definitely not aunties with troublesome questions. Outcomes in this study of one? Abused child, ruptured family, broke parents, and a very profitable corporation

We had a totally different experience so it is evident that programs vary widely or have improved over time.  It is safe to say we should avoid programs like the one your niece attended.

[Che Gookin]

I'd say its safe to avoid 99.9 percent of all program. I'll let you have your .1 percent as I'm feeling generous today.

[Whooter]

I'd say its safe to avoid 99.9 percent of all program. I'll let you have your .1 percent as I'm feeling generous today.

Considering that this is posted on fornits, I take this as a big, no I mean huge, step.  The skies are finally parting.  Someday we will hopefully get to the point where we are discussing the good and bad programs side by side and making a difference by exposing the abusive programs from a credible discussion of unbiased posters.  Fornits will become the "Onesource"® for program information and a database rich in credible information on programs that parents can tap into.  24 hour hot lines,  overnight info packages, a tire ranch "safe haven" in the desert designed by TSW for children who fall through the safety net.

Fornits Onesource® will head line on Oprah and expose doctor phil as a sellout.  Onesource® will eventually purchase PURE and task SS to investigate and spend 6 months in each program which is on the final stages of probation for abuse and as a verification process (required by new regulation) this phase will be documented via video tape and distributed thru the freedom of information act.

Oh, looking on the bright side makes my day!!!

[Anonymous]

Do you think a survivor here on fornits who was abused or didn’t do well would report the positive side of their stay in a program?

 Hello....When you are abused in a prograom there is no "positive side".  The abuse negates anything that could be considered positive.  And of course you make friends, even prisoners of war, concentration camp inhabitants and slaves make friends and try to and squeeze whatever "positive" they can out of their experience.   None of that excused abuse.

[Whooter]

Hello....When you are abused in a prograom there is no "positive side".  The abuse negates anything that could be considered positive.  And of course you make friends, even prisoners of war, concentration camp inhabitants and slaves make friends and try to and squeeze whatever "positive" they can out of their experience.   None of that excused abuse.

Exactly... the abuse negates anything positive that occurred there.  If you spoke to a person who went to a program who wasn’t abused you would get a more balanced account (nothing negated).  This person could tell you that the staff was nice but some were under qualified and some were over qualified and probably wouldn’t stay long... the food was okay, better than the food in highschool...... the place was too crowded but it looked like they were adding on new dorms.  I didn’t like my history teacher because he didn’t seem to know much and we had limited time on the computer to do our own research....

You just dont walk up to the kid who was raped by her teacher in public  high school and ask what she thought of the school... everything is negated by the rape, as you stated.
So the chances of getting a balanced picture of a program here on fornits is slim to none.