Author Topic: Do you think programs help troubled teens?  (Read 9653 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« on: September 28, 2009, 01:44:01 PM »
I think programs help troubled teens.  There are many Fornits members who are not open to that school of thought.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2009, 01:55:14 PM »
depends on how you define "help" and "troubled".  The truth is that if the troubled parents would get help for themselves way before their kids become "troubled"  there would be no need for "programs".
The problem with "programs" is that it is the kids who are punished for major parental fuck-ups.  This breeds a whole host of more "troubling" issues: rage at the injustice, abandonment at the realization when they leave what a waste it was because they are usually warehoused and not educated.  It is a one-size fits all "solution" for a while community of people who have distinctly different needs, learning styles and problems.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2009, 02:01:42 PM »
Quote from: "Troubled teens"
I think programs help troubled teens.  There are many Fornits members who are not open to that school of thought.
They reject that school of thought because they have knowledge of programs.  They have gone through the programs and understand them much better than an individual who only puts kids in programs.  Programs may help people like you financially but there is damned sure no evidence that programs help teens, troubled or otherwise.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2009, 02:05:45 PM »
I think it is a win, win gold mind for any parents who actually do have a child who needs help because these places are presently filled with kids whose only problem is misinformed or screwed up parents.  So if your kid is acting out then sending them to a program would be ideal because they will be around very well adjusted kids who have never done drugs or broke the law and are excelling academically which would be a great model for your children to be exposed to.  I believe this is the main reason that over 95% of the kids do extremely well after graduating.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2009, 02:18:36 PM »
There are parents who the best job they can.  In addition, there are children who make choices that ultimately place them in programs.  It is not always the parents fault.  Children should take responsibility for their actions.  This is a point of view a majority of Fornits members are not willing to entertain.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2009, 02:22:00 PM »
to the above two posters. WOW! you are misinformed. I'd like to know what constitutes "extremely well", how, and for how long the program keeps track of the students after graduation. If the success rate is as high as you say, why doesnt the entire world just create more programs just like it? hmmmmm......



there are some programs that do help troubled teens. and in case you havnt noticed, they are not listed anywhere on this site for a reason - because they are honest organizations that do more than just help kids.

for wildernesses, there's Outward Bound and National Outdoor Leadership School (NOLS). they both have excellent reputations and a history spanning back three or four decades. They are wilderness schools first, catering to all ages, from teens to geriatrics. They mainly cater to normal, un-troubled individuals, but they both have programs for troubled teens. I could imagine that sailing the carribian, trekking through alaska or patagonia, riding horseback through mongolia, climbing the rockies or paddling the boundary waters would be alot more therapeutic than anything offered by the programs and wildernesses that are ever mentioned on fornits. They are therapeutic to normal people - not just troubled teens - which is why they exist in the first place.  What's particularly interesting about these NOLS and OB, that to my knowledge, they have some programs where both the parents and the teen take part in an expedition, partially separated and partially together.

Then theres a whole variety of support groups. some are run by religious institutions, but most of them are non-religious regardless of affiliation. There are summer camps geared towards troubled teens. There are mentoring programs. There is private therapy. there are a million options for troubled teens that dont involve brainwashing, warehousing, and abuse. We dont take an issue with those institutions because they present no problems.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2009, 02:35:35 PM »
Boulder Creek Academy and CALO are good programs.  They help kids.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2009, 02:36:31 PM »
Quote from: "BCA"
Boulder Creek Academy and CALO are good programs.  They help kids.
that would be a Negative
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2009, 02:40:56 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "BCA"
Boulder Creek Academy and CALO are good programs.  They help kids.
that would be a Negative

Do you have proof CALO doesn't help troubled teens?
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2009, 02:50:13 PM »
Quote from: "Proof"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "BCA"
Boulder Creek Academy and CALO are good programs.  They help kids.
that would be a Negative
Do you have proof CALO doesn't help troubled teens?
Do you have proof that CALO does help troubled teens?

Usually when someone offers a product for consumer consumption, which claims to help a certain segment of the population, proof is offered as to the claims of its efficacy.

Where is proof of CALO's efficacy?
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2009, 03:01:47 PM »
So there is no proof it does and no proof that it does not.  So typically a person requests advice from professionals or those who have had kids that went thru the process.  The knee jerk reaction would be to call the school and ask to speak to other parents who have kids there so that you can ask them questions about the program and weigh the risks and/or determine if it is a good fit for your family.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2009, 03:03:08 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
I think it is a win, win gold mind for any parents  
Quote from: "Guest"

Its much more of a win, win gold mine (not mind) for the people who own and invest in these all fro profit places


Quote from: "Guest"
So if your kid is acting out then sending them to a program would be ideal because they will be around very well adjusted kids who have never done drugs or broke the law and are excelling academically which would be a great model for your children to be exposed to

Except that the "well-adjusted" kids are quickly twisted out of alignment in the programs and are more pissed at the injustice.  At least the not so "well-adjusted" know they did something that made their parents want to get rid of them.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2009, 03:12:22 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
I think it is a win, win gold mind for any parents  
Quote from: "Guest"

Its much more of a win, win gold mine (not mind) for the people who own and invest in these all fro profit places


Quote from: "Guest"
So if your kid is acting out then sending them to a program would be ideal because they will be around very well adjusted kids who have never done drugs or broke the law and are excelling academically which would be a great model for your children to be exposed to

Except that the "well-adjusted" kids are quickly twisted out of alignment in the programs and are more pissed at the injustice.  At least the not so "well-adjusted" know they did something that made their parents want to get rid of them.

No, I dont agree here.  The well adjusted kids are unphased by all of it and just focus in on their academics and serve as a good model to the kids who are acting out and at-risk.  This is good exposure for the well adjusted kids because it pulls them out of their books just enough for them to experience life around them.  It serves as a very good balance for everyone.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2009, 03:14:07 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
So there is no proof it does and no proof that it does not.  So typically a person requests advice from professionals or those who have had kids that went thru the process.  The knee jerk reaction would be to call the school and ask to speak to other parents who have kids there so that you can ask them questions about the program and weigh the risks and/or determine if it is a good fit for your family.
It costs a lot of money to send your child to CALO. It doesn't cost a dime to not send him or her. Big difference. How does CALO justify its asking price? Where is the proof of CALO's efficacy?

CALO engages in a pretense of operating within the mental health field. Shouldn't it have to offer proof of the success of its methodology? Perhaps more importantly, shouldn't it have to offer proof of its inability to inflict harm? Remember,

    First, Do No Harm.[/list]
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    Offline psy

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    Re: Do you think programs help troubled teens?
    « Reply #14 on: September 28, 2009, 03:27:57 PM »
    Quote from: "Troubled teens"
    I think programs help troubled teens.  There are many Fornits members who are not open to that school of thought.
    Defined "programs", "help" and "troubled".  If they're like most of the program discussed on fornits, no.  They don't help.  Even if they're "non-abusive"** and don't practices thought reform, you can't change a person in the long term unless they don't want to change themselves.  No matter how many graduates you claim are saved, that's anecdotal evidence and there are no independent studies done showing that residential treatment or wilderness or whatever actually works.
     
    Quote from: "Proof"
    Quote from: "Guest"
    Quote from: "BCA"
    Boulder Creek Academy and CALO are good programs.  They help kids.
    that would be a Negative

    Do you have proof CALO doesn't help troubled teens?

    But see there, you're reversing the burden of proof. Imagine if I went out and advertised perfumed toilet water (or at the very least plain water) as disinfectant brand A.  You claim it doesn't work. I then point to my many happy testimonials from customers who swear by the stuff.  You ask for studies.  I ask for studies that it doesn't work.  All this is avoid the simple fact that it's still fucking toilet water...  or snake oil, or whatever.

    If you want to be honest, instead of pulling a sucess rate number out of you ass, say "I can't prove it works, but I believe it does."  (of course no program is this honest since they couldn't compete against the schools that were lying about success and gaining parents as a result)

    ** this would require you to believe that forcing a person into confinement, often violently, without due process, is not abusive.
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