Author Topic: My son at Aspen Ranch  (Read 93656 times)

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Offline psy

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2009, 02:00:15 AM »
Can we please not have this thread degrade into another "we hate the who bla bla".  Just provide counterpoints and if you want to fantasize about killing the guy, there's a thread for that.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2009, 07:31:17 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
nobody said he should be silenced.  i just want to see all of his efforts here tied to his real identity so all of his friends (if he has any), his family (the ones who haven't been killed by AEG) and his colleagues can see what a really sick and deranged guy he is.  

Why dont you show us the way, "Guest"?  Have your posts tied together and then reveal your identity so your family knows what you write here and we know who you are.  Is this fair?  Why dont you ever ask survivors to have their posts tied together why is it always the posters who post positive results from programs that are chosen?  Why is it so difficult to tolerate an open forum where everyone gets a voice without discrediting those who disagree with you?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2009, 09:45:33 AM »
^TheWho^

Why do people continue to waste their time with this troll?
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Offline TheWho

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #78 on: September 05, 2009, 09:54:49 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
^TheWho^

Why do people continue to waste their time with this troll?

That last post was mine, not this "who" guy.  I should probably get a user name to avoid confusion.  I appologize.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #79 on: September 05, 2009, 03:59:55 PM »
Nigel, I was wondering (if you happen to find the time) if you could answer some questions for us.  There has been conflicting information circulating here on fornits about Aspen and other programs which has made choosing a program a bit confusing.  You may not know the answers right now but after visiting and speaking to your son maybe you could help to clarify for those parents considering placing their child at Aspen Ranch. If we could find out first hand if any of these are really true it would be a big help.  These may be just scare tactics to keep parents from placing their kids, but we would feel much better to know for sure.


1)     We heard that if a child doesn’t follow the rules they subject them to a restrictive diet or “starvation diet” consisting of a slice of cheese on white bread and water as their entire meal.  

2)   Kids are required to carry rocks around all day long instead of going to school.

3)   The kids are not allowed to use the bathroom or shower without a staff being present with them.

4)   Some kids are placed into a small isolation room for days if they break the rules.

5)   Staff monitors their phone calls and if they say they want to come home or say anything negative the call is terminated and the child is told they will have to stay in the program longer.

6)   Kids are restrained up to 14 times a day and medicated while under restraint.

7)   If they break a rule they are required to wear an orange jump suit.

8.)   Some kids are tied to their bed at nights.

9)   Kids are forced to sit in metal chairs for 18 hours straight with no bathroom break.

10)    The therapists have no degrees.

Thanks in advance.
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Offline psy

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #80 on: September 05, 2009, 04:24:03 PM »
I don't think any of that has been said specifically about Aspen Ranch.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #81 on: September 05, 2009, 04:37:41 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Nigel, I was wondering (if you happen to find the time) if you could answer some questions for us.  There has been conflicting information circulating here on fornits about Aspen and other programs which has made choosing a program a bit confusing.  You may not know the answers right now but after visiting and speaking to your son maybe you could help to clarify for those parents considering placing their child at Aspen Ranch. If we could find out first hand if any of these are really true it would be a big help.  These may be just scare tactics to keep parents from placing their kids, but we would feel much better to know for sure.


1)     We heard that if a child doesn’t follow the rules they subject them to a restrictive diet or “starvation diet” consisting of a slice of cheese on white bread and water as their entire meal.  

2)   Kids are required to carry rocks around all day long instead of going to school.

3)   The kids are not allowed to use the bathroom or shower without a staff being present with them.

4)   Some kids are placed into a small isolation room for days if they break the rules.

5)   Staff monitors their phone calls and if they say they want to come home or say anything negative the call is terminated and the child is told they will have to stay in the program longer.

6)   Kids are restrained up to 14 times a day and medicated while under restraint.

7)   If they break a rule they are required to wear an orange jump suit.

8.)   Some kids are tied to their bed at nights.

9)   Kids are forced to sit in metal chairs for 18 hours straight with no bathroom break.

10)    The therapists have no degrees.

Thanks in advance.
This is a very sneaky piece of obfuscation if there ever is one. The poster did, indeed, carefully craft the wording in some (but not all!) of these statements in an attempt to convey reasonable conjecture. The obsession with the orange jumpsuits, however, gives it away.

Obviously, if every single kid were subjected to the above, as some of the statements imply, whichever program they were describing would not last long (but longer than one might imagine, believe it or not).

The key here is understanding how compliance with the program is fostered, coerced, "encouraged," driven home (insert whatever verb you wish). All of the above listed "concerns" have happened to varying degree in one program or another, to one or a number of kids, at some time or another, just not generally to all or to all at the same time. [I'm not sure about the 14 restraints per day claim, however (I seem to remember having read about 6/day from someone at PV), and the sitting in a metal chair for "18 hours straight with no bathroom break" is a bit long (though I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it may have happened from time to time at Straight, Inc. or KIDS).]

Most of the above has happened, more or less, in WWASPs programs. Some of the aforementioned statements have happened with Aspen programs, as well as several other programs.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #82 on: September 05, 2009, 04:46:42 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Nigel, I was wondering (if you happen to find the time) if you could answer some questions for us.  There has been conflicting information circulating here on fornits about Aspen and other programs which has made choosing a program a bit confusing.  You may not know the answers right now but after visiting and speaking to your son maybe you could help to clarify for those parents considering placing their child at Aspen Ranch. If we could find out first hand if any of these are really true it would be a big help.  These may be just scare tactics to keep parents from placing their kids, but we would feel much better to know for sure.


1)     We heard that if a child doesn’t follow the rules they subject them to a restrictive diet or “starvation diet” consisting of a slice of cheese on white bread and water as their entire meal.  

2)   Kids are required to carry rocks around all day long instead of going to school.

3)   The kids are not allowed to use the bathroom or shower without a staff being present with them.

4)   Some kids are placed into a small isolation room for days if they break the rules.

5)   Staff monitors their phone calls and if they say they want to come home or say anything negative the call is terminated and the child is told they will have to stay in the program longer.

6)   Kids are restrained up to 14 times a day and medicated while under restraint.

7)   If they break a rule they are required to wear an orange jump suit.

8.)   Some kids are tied to their bed at nights.

9)   Kids are forced to sit in metal chairs for 18 hours straight with no bathroom break.

10)    The therapists have no degrees.

Thanks in advance.

The info given to HEAL was not "conflicting." The info was provided in the form of sworn testimony and is very actionable and not given lightly. If untrue, why does Aspen not file suit?
Well, because, as you know troll, it's all quite accurate.

You are a program troll "asking" your sockpuppet a "question" in effort to propagandize for Aspen Education Abusive Gulag Inc.

Here's that non conflicting sworn testimony again:
http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm

SURVIVOR REPORT #1 BY ANONYMOUS
I wish I knew where to begin. I will try to focus on the most disturbing experiences i can
remember but, like many other survivors of such programs i find myself having a hard time remembering everything that went on.  

For the first two weeks you arrive at Aspen Ranch you are placed on a level known as round-up.  During this period of time you are either silent in a basement, or outside doing manual labor (changing watering pipes, building fences etc).  You can not have any contact with your parents and get to talk to a therapist maybe once or twice.  

One July morning when I refused to go outside, the sheets were ripped out from under me and I was carried and thrown onto a staircase where two men put my shoes on picked me up and dragged me to the field where I was to work.  Afraid of any other forms of punishment,
I did.  Being physically threatened is a major way they get you to follow the rules.  

Every week you got to speak with your parents,  on speakerphone, with your therapist present for 20 minutes.  If you ever tried to tell your parents about the torture you were suffering through the conversation would be immediately terminated.  All letters were read before sent,
all incoming mail opened read and inspected before given to you.  The only contact allowed was to your parents and had to be positive.

 On top of whatever work project your team was assigned to each day you also had to participate in an hour long physical, no matter how physically drained you were.  People would sometimes pass out or break down begging to stop but, for the most part the physical went on for as long as the supervisor saw fit.  

The psychological abuse was never ending, if you were suspected of doing something wrong you would be forced to go into the basement and sit at a desk until you admitted what you were accused of.  We were often threatened to be sent to an out of country program where we were told there was no child labor laws, I still don't know if this program exists but, the mere threat was enough to keep most of us "in line".  

I could go on forever with stories of this sort.  My main point though, please do not put your child through this, two years later I am still suffering from the lies I was fed.
 Please protect my identity.  I know this is not a complete story but I think it gets the point across.  If you needfull name and dates for your own records I can let you know, thanks so much for raising awareness about such horrible programs.
 
SURVIVOR REPORT #2 BY ANON
These are all factual events that take place at aspen ranch everyday, these are events that have taken place and will continue to unless someone takes action soon. Everything in my statement is true and I give HEAL permission to use my statement.  I am a survivor of the aspen ranch school, located in Loa, UT.  A Theraputic Boarding school/ rehabilitation
center.....my ass.  

Aspen Ranch uses a physical restraint system called PCS (positive control system) which is actually FAR from positive. PCS includes a barrage or various pressure points and bent wrists, locked joints, and strained tendons. Once put into PCS submission you are held here by a minimum of 3 staff, you're pulse regularly checked to indicate your
level of anger.  You are normally on the ground (also known as "Carpet Time" for a norm of 45 minutes to an hour)  They use any method of getting you down, whether it be calmly asking you to cooperate with them or tackling you through a crowd of people onto concrete (which seems to be a staff favorite).

I have seen many of my friends at Aspen Ranch end up with broken wrists from PCS. I have myself lost the feeling in the tips of my fingers for days  as a result of being held in PCS
submission for over 3 hours.

Once you are PCSed (on top of everything) you have to go to R&R (redirection and recovery) more commonly known as the room where you where red sweat pants and sweat shirts even in the dead of the summer (in the Desert) to no avail.  

The "on campus" psychiatrist's prescribe you medications based on staff behavioral reports, without even consulting you to see how you feel about putting a new foreign substance into your body or checking past medical records (could be detrimental to your well being).   For example I myself was a bit ADHD according to staff, and the staff apparently thought that they were doing me a favor recommending that i be prescribed to ritalin (methylphindate), which
actually led to a number of seizures...too bad they didn't bother to  check to see if my family had a history of amphetamine related seizures.  thanks aspen ranch!!
-Anon
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #83 on: September 05, 2009, 04:51:35 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
I don't think any of that has been said specifically about Aspen Ranch.


Yes it has. Aspen Ranch of Aspen Education, Bain capital, CRC Health also physically abuses/tortures detainees.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #84 on: September 05, 2009, 05:57:29 PM »
Exactly, Thank you for posting those.  Those were a few I was refering to.  That is the type of information we have been getting here on fornits, but when we speak with other parents who had kids in aspen Ranch they didnt see any of that.  So is it because some kids experience this and others do not?  or has Aspen Ranch changed over time? or are the stories just isolated cases because of untrained Staff situations?  Is there any truth to these at all?

Getting Nigels perspective and first hand accounts would really help to clear up some of these questions.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #85 on: September 05, 2009, 06:19:00 PM »
Quote
If untrue, why does Aspen not file suit?

I always found this statement interesting.  To try to assume the statement “that just because no one is suing me than I must be telling the truth”.  This just isn’t true.  I could walk around saying that McDonalds uses Horse meat in their hamburgers all day long and I would not get sued.  I Could stand on a street corner and holdup a sign to the same effect and maybe get away with it too... but as soon as I start affecting local or regional sales figures then the police will start to move me along and harass me.... but still no law suit..  why?

Because a lawsuit isn’t a decision of passion it is based on the bottom line.  If I cause the local McDonalds to lose $5,000 in sales and it will cost them $10,000 to silence me then it wont happen.  Once you tip the scales where your actions are costing them more money then it costs to sue you then (and only then) will you be served.

So  dont believe that these people are telling the truth because they haven’t been sued.  It could be that they are not having an effect... (or big enough effect) who knows?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #86 on: September 05, 2009, 06:23:47 PM »
I went to Aspen and it was great! Before I went I was disrespectful and did a lot of drugs, cigarettes and alcohol. But when I got home my parents loved me and I have been sober since my fifteenth birthday. I wear my first 30 day chip around my neck as a reminder to how lucky I am.
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Offline NIGEL

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #87 on: September 05, 2009, 06:38:03 PM »
I will tell you what I know about the list.  These are the items I know about:

3)   The kids are not allowed to use the bathroom or shower without a staff being present with them.

The kids have privacy in the bathrooms, but they can't lock the doors.

5)   Staff monitors their phone calls and if they say they want to come home or say anything negative the call is terminated and the child is told they will have to stay in the program longer.

On the phone calls there is a therapist on the call.  The therapist did say that we weren't going to spend the whole phone call with pleas to come home, but rather work on things.

7)   If they break a rule they are required to wear an orange jump suit.

The kids wear an orange vest when they are deemed "at risk of running."  When I visited, I saw a young man with one on (they look like the vest that people wear when they are working on the side of the road).

10)    The therapists have no degrees.

I know that the therapists that are dealing with my son do have their degrees.  I met his main therapist and she seemed very professional and also very nice.  She has been good on the phone calls and my son hasn't complained about her.

The other items either don't take place, or haven't happened since my son has been there.  I am positive that my son will tell me what goes on and he won't be brainwashed.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #88 on: September 05, 2009, 07:34:08 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
This is a very sneaky piece of obfuscation if there ever is one. The poster did, indeed, carefully craft the wording in some (but not all!) of these statements in an attempt to convey reasonable conjecture. The obsession with the orange jumpsuits, however, gives it away.

Obviously, if every single kid were subjected to the above, as some of the statements imply, whichever program they were describing would not last long (but longer than one might imagine, believe it or not).

The key here is understanding how compliance with the program is fostered, coerced, "encouraged," driven home (insert whatever verb you wish). All of the above listed "concerns" have happened to varying degree in one program or another, to one or a number of kids, at some time or another, just not generally to all or to all at the same time. [I'm not sure about the 14 restraints per day claim, however (I seem to remember having read about 6/day from someone at PV), and the sitting in a metal chair for "18 hours straight with no bathroom break" is a bit long (though I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it may have happened from time to time at Straight, Inc. or KIDS).]

Most of the above has happened, more or less, in WWASPs programs. Some of the aforementioned statements have happened with Aspen programs, as well as several other programs.


Yes, I think that is an interesting point.  Many of the posts here are misleading.  If a poster comes on to fornits and starts asking if sending their child to Aspen Ranch is a good idea or if the place is safe we get posting like the 300 lb staff member who sat on a kid or a picture of the Hobbit isolation room or stories of kids having to carry rocks around all day or denied food.  Yes, these may have happened at one point or another in isolated cases,  but they don’t apply to the here and now and they don’t apply to Aspen Ranch.  They occurred in another time and another place.

Lets look at it another way.  It is like asking a neighbor if the local public school is any good and they start showing you photos and articles of a teacher who had sex with a student from another part of the country and defending her position by saying all public schools are alike.  Would this be a valid argument for not sending your child to public school?  I wouldn’t think so but it seems to be more accepted here on fornits as a position or bases for argument.

I think it is good to clarify that not all programs are alike and you cannot take an incident from one program and apply it to another.  Each place is independent and run differently.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #89 on: September 05, 2009, 07:45:31 PM »
Quote from: "NIGEL"
I will tell you what I know about the list.  These are the items I know about:

3)   The kids are not allowed to use the bathroom or shower without a staff being present with them.

The kids have privacy in the bathrooms, but they can't lock the doors.

5)   Staff monitors their phone calls and if they say they want to come home or say anything negative the call is terminated and the child is told they will have to stay in the program longer.

On the phone calls there is a therapist on the call.  The therapist did say that we weren't going to spend the whole phone call with pleas to come home, but rather work on things.

7)   If they break a rule they are required to wear an orange jump suit.

The kids wear an orange vest when they are deemed "at risk of running."  When I visited, I saw a young man with one on (they look like the vest that people wear when they are working on the side of the road).

10)    The therapists have no degrees.

I know that the therapists that are dealing with my son do have their degrees.  I met his main therapist and she seemed very professional and also very nice.  She has been good on the phone calls and my son hasn't complained about her.

The other items either don't take place, or haven't happened since my son has been there.  I am positive that my son will tell me what goes on and he won't be brainwashed.
Nigel.  Those questions were written by the same guests pretending to be Aspen Ranch parents.  His aim is to encourage you in your decision to keep your son there through deception and to make the rest of us look like crazy liars by imitating us and making wild exaggerated accusations (so you'll stop listening to *any* concerns, however valid).  How do I know this?  Because he has a very distinctive writing style and in his arrogance he can't help but sign his posts with certain distinguishing characteristics such as his signature mention of Orange Jumpsuits (as Ursus pointed out).  There are valid concerns about the Aspen program you have placed your child in but almost none of them were in that list of questions.  He's also a fan of responding to his own posts.  As Psy suggested, read up on Sockpuppeteering, Astroturfing, and Fraudiences.
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