My son at Aspen Ranch

[psy]

I am positive that my son will tell me what goes on and he won't be brainwashed.

Since it's largely a transparent process (See Singer's first condition), neither you nor he would know until a while after leaving the program.  Now you could say "well.. maybe brainwashing is a good thing if he starts behaving right".  Well.  The problem with that, ethics aside, is that thought reform ceases to function shortly after a person leaves the closed environment.  He might act changed for a while after getting home but will almost assuredly assume his old identity after a short period of time.  Real change comes from within, as I've said.  My advice, is to take him out and deal with him at home through therapy, volunteer activities he enjoys, sports, community service and so forth rather than waste your time and money on a program that will be ineffective at best and could very well leave him with lasting psychological scars at worst.

[TheWho]

Nigel.  Those questions were written by the same guests pretending to be Aspen Ranch parents.  His aim is to encourage you in your decision to keep your son there through deception and to make the rest of us look like crazy liars by imitating us and making wild exaggerated accusations (so you'll stop listening to *any* concerns, however valid).  How do I know this?  Because he has a very distinctive writing style and in his arrogance he can't help but sign his posts with certain distinguishing characteristics such as his signature mention of Orange Jumpsuits (as Ursus pointed out).  There are valid concerns about the Aspen program you have placed your child in but almost none of them were in that list of questions.  He's also a fan of responding to his own posts.  As Psy suggested, read up on Sockpuppeteering, Astroturfing, and Fraudiences.

I made that list up myself (no one elselike you are implying) because I was concerned about the information I was getting here.  Why do you try to belittle the questions?  You stated above that none of my questions relate to Aspen Ranch (I disagree with you), but why do you make that stement and then not add your specific questions that you say I left out?  I am open minded and would like to hear and discuss any questions that you have.  Why not pose them to Nigel?  Why make it look like a conspiracy all the time?

[Anonymous]

Why make it look like a conspiracy all the time?

If it isn't, ask Psy to link your posts together.  I'll be the first to apologize.  What have you got to lose if you're telling the truth?

[TheWho]

I am positive that my son will tell me what goes on and he won't be brainwashed.

Since it's largely a transparent process (See Singer's first condition), neither you nor he would know until a while after leaving the program.  Now you could say "well.. maybe brainwashing is a good thing if he starts behaving right".  Well.  The problem with that, ethics aside, is that thought reform ceases to function shortly after a person leaves the closed environment.  He might act changed for a while after getting home but will almost assuredly assume his old identity after a short period of time.  Real change comes from within, as I've said.  My advice, is to take him out and deal with him at home through therapy, volunteer activities he enjoys, sports, community service and so forth rather than waste your time and money on a program that will be ineffective at best and could very well leave him with lasting psychological scars at worst.

I agree that thought reform would be damaging to anyone who would be exposed to it in captivity.  But Behavior modification is totally different and is used throughout ones life, it is a slower process of letting the person embrace and understand a different way of doing things.  Think of it as potty training.  Potty training is Behavior modification.  At the end the child embraces, sees the benefits of dry pants and takes it on as his/hers own.  The child isnt damaged by it.  The childs quality of life is improved.  Its a slow process that is why the programs run as long as they do.

I wish you wouldnt confuse brainwashing with Behavior modification.  It is very misleading.

[Anonymous]

My advice, is to take him out and deal with him at home through therapy, volunteer activities he enjoys, sports, community service and so forth

Kids are sent to programs because they have serious behavior problems, the cause of which is usually not as simple as a lack of extracurricular activities. Is this really the best alternative to programs you have to offer parents? Sports and volunteer work?

[Ursus]

My advice, is to take him out and deal with him at home through therapy, volunteer activities he enjoys, sports, community service and so forth

Kids are sent to programs because they have serious behavior problems, the cause of which is usually not as simple as a lack of extracurricular activities. Is this really the best alternative to programs you have to offer parents? Sports and volunteer work?

LOL. Sometimes it's parental interpretation of "serious behavior problems," and sometimes it is even the kid's dysfunctional reaction to outright parental abuse. I'm not saying that this is the case with Nigel, he seems far more concerned and involved than the average program parent, but I'm bringing it up 'cuz there have been far too many cases just like said scenarios.

You seem to have an unusually dour and overly stereotyped image of who gets sent to programs, Guest. Programs will take anyone and everyone who can pay. After all is said and done, that is the be-all and end-all of what this industry is all about. All the rest is rationalizations for the misdeeds.

[Ursus]

I am positive that my son will tell me what goes on and he won't be brainwashed.

Since it's largely a transparent process (See Singer's first condition), neither you nor he would know until a while after leaving the program.  Now you could say "well.. maybe brainwashing is a good thing if he starts behaving right".  Well.  The problem with that, ethics aside, is that thought reform ceases to function shortly after a person leaves the closed environment.  He might act changed for a while after getting home but will almost assuredly assume his old identity after a short period of time.  Real change comes from within, as I've said.  My advice, is to take him out and deal with him at home through therapy, volunteer activities he enjoys, sports, community service and so forth rather than waste your time and money on a program that will be ineffective at best and could very well leave him with lasting psychological scars at worst.

I agree that thought reform would be damaging to anyone who would be exposed to it in captivity.  But Behavior modification is totally different and is used throughout ones life, it is a slower process of letting the person embrace and understand a different way of doing things.  Think of it as potty training.  Potty training is Behavior modification.  At the end the child embraces, sees the benefits of dry pants and takes it on as his/hers own.  The child isnt damaged by it.  The childs quality of life is improved.  Its a slow process that is why the programs run as long as they do.

I wish you wouldnt confuse brainwashing with Behavior modification.  It is very misleading.

Kids in programs aren't being potty-trained. They are, however, being subjugated to a regimen of behavior modification brought about by thought reform, aka thought coercion.

Your attempts to liken programs to potty-training are even more familiar than the orange jumpsuits, I afraid...  

[TheWho]

My advice, is to take him out and deal with him at home through therapy, volunteer activities he enjoys, sports, community service and so forth

Kids are sent to programs because they have serious behavior problems, the cause of which is usually not as simple as a lack of extracurricular activities. Is this really the best alternative to programs you have to offer parents? Sports and volunteer work?

LOL. Sometimes it's parental interpretation of "serious behavior problems," and sometimes it is even the kid's dysfunctional reaction to outright parental abuse. I'm not saying that this is the case with Nigel, he seems far more concerned and involved than the average program parent, but I'm bringing it up 'cuz there have been far too many cases just like said scenarios.

You seem to have an unusually dour and overly stereotyped image of who gets sent to programs, Guest. Programs will take anyone and everyone who can pay. After all is said and done, that is the be-all and end-all of what this industry is all about. All the rest is rationalizations for the misdeeds.

Actually, from what I have read, Nigel is more the typical program parent .  They are mostly the more concerned and involved parents.  If they were not then their kids would be home running amok or dead.  The kids are not there because they smoked some weed, skipped school a few times or the were the subject of abusive parents.  The kids have serious issues which could not be solved locally thru the school counselor, local therapist, hospital etc. and the program is sometimes the last option.

Not all programs will take your child just because you can demonstrate deep pockets and/or a willingness to pay.  Many of these places have very strict and defined criteria for acceptance.  They only accept the children that the particular program feels they have a high probability of helping.  If the program is too structured or not structured enough for a particular student or just not a good fit then they are recommended to another place or outright rejected.

You can address a few of these questions to Nigel,also.  After he attends Aspen Ranch a few times and meets the other parents he will be able to tell if they just sent their kids there so they could go on vacation or if they were sent there for good reason.  He may even be able to give us insight on the acceptance procedures that they use if you ask.

[Ursus]

Not all programs will take your child just because you can demonstrate deep pockets and/or a willingness to pay. Many of these places have very strict and defined criteria for acceptance. They only accept the children that the particular program feels they have a high probability of helping. If the program is too structured or not structured enough for a particular student or just not a good fit then they are recommended to another place or outright rejected.

Yep. I know how that goes. If one Aspen program is not the greatest fit, there sure is another one (or two, or three) that is. And they usually even have the Admissions Director's home phone number, to further facilitate and expedite that up close and personal, customized Aspen Ed experience.  

[TheWho]

Not all programs will take your child just because you can demonstrate deep pockets and/or a willingness to pay. Many of these places have very strict and defined criteria for acceptance. They only accept the children that the particular program feels they have a high probability of helping. If the program is too structured or not structured enough for a particular student or just not a good fit then they are recommended to another place or outright rejected.

Yep. I know how that goes. If one Aspen program is not the greatest fit, there sure is another one (or two, or three) that is. And they usually even have the Admissions Director's home phone number, to further facilitate and expedite that up close and personal, customized Aspen Ed experience.  

Yes, they do that and they also recommend outside the Aspen group if they feel it is a better fit then what their programs can provide.  They are also quick to tell you if your child just doesnt fit their programs or requires further testing prior to acceptance.
Most of the places have each others phone numbers whether they are Aspen Ed or outside the group.  Its very common

[blombrowski]

Yes, they do that and they also recommend outside the Aspen group if they feel it is a better fit then what their programs can provide. They are also quick to tell you if your child just doesnt fit their programs or requires further testing prior to acceptance.
Most of the places have each others phone numbers whether they are Aspen Ed or outside the group. Its very common

Guest, since you seem to have so much expertise in the subject.  Do these programs ever even consider suggesting to a parent that the help that they need can be provided at home with services that perhaps they haven't tried yet, that someone might not make a profit off of?  And please offer an example (no names please of the person, but please share the names of the programs involved) if you do.

[TheWho]

If you just walk in off the street with your kid and a suitcase of cash you will be turned away.  You wont even get past the receptionist.  They will allow you to take a tour, walk the campus on your own if you like.  We strolled around and spoke to various students so it is open like that.

As far as enrollment goes, if your child has not been evaluated they ask that you have your child independently evaluated by a licensed therapist or 24 hour observation at a local hospital, psych examination.  The doctor at the hospital and the program will evaluate if the program is a good fit and if the child has a high probability of being successful in the selected program.  You may apply for admission just prior to the evaluation, but will not get accepted until they talk with or get correspondence from a licensed doctor or therapist in your local area.

For wilderness I don’t believe it is a stringent.  They need you to have a full physical exam by the childs pediatrician and a signed release into the program by the same doctor.  You don’t need a psych exam as far as I am aware.

This is how it has worked to my knowledge.  I would be interested to know the process that Nigel had to go thru.  I understand that not all programs are the same and each may have a different process.

[try another castle]

Actually, from what I have read, Nigel is more the typical program parent .  They are mostly the more concerned and involved parents.  If they were not then their kids would be home running amok or dead.  The kids are not there because they smoked some weed, skipped school a few times or the were the subject of abusive parents.  The kids have serious issues which could not be solved locally thru the school counselor, local therapist, hospital etc. and the program is sometimes the last option.

They're paying you way too much.

lol.. re: program parents. thank god programs are here, because before that, teenagers were running amok and dying left and right. It's amazing we even have a working government full of people who survived their teenage years. They must have eaten their parents to carry on.

Not all programs will take your child just because you can demonstrate deep pockets and/or a willingness to pay.  Many of these places have very strict and defined criteria for acceptance.  They only accept the children that the particular program feels they have a high probability of helping.  If the program is too structured or not structured enough for a particular student or just not a good fit then they are recommended to another place or outright rejected.

Id love to see the list on that fucker. Id love to hear from one person whose kid was turned down and NOT referred to a sister school. I tire of the same vague story and general nebulous cum-dribblings with no names, dates, etc. since you're merely vomiting up shitchunks about the policy of the anal-rape-palace you are shilling for as you post on this forum. I don't even bother to ask for this info any more, because it's like asking santa claus to give hitler a train for christmas. ("You have enough trains Adolph. How about a nice oven? Girls like a man who can cook.")

If you just walk in off the street with your kid and a suitcase of cash you will be turned away.

Really? Did that happen? If it hasnt, then it seriously needs to. Where's Tom Green when you need him? I totally want to play the game of how sketchy a parent and child could pretend to be before they are flatly refused with no referrals.




k. that's all the dance Im going to do on that.

[TheWho]

Id love to see the list on that fucker. Id love to hear from one person whose kid was turned down and NOT referred to a sister school. I tire of the same vague story and general nebulous cum-dribblings with no names, dates, etc. since you're merely vomiting up shitchunks about the policy of the anal-rape-palace you are shilling for as you post on this forum. I don't even bother to ask for this info any more, because it's like asking santa claus to give hitler a train for christmas. ("You have enough trains Adolph. How about a nice oven? Girls like a man who can cook.").

There were actually 2 kids who were turned down in my daughters group when they were attending SUWS of the Carolinas together.  They didnt attend an Aspen Program... one ended up in Maine somewhere the other went down south (HLA?).  So you see you are wrong, Castle.

So you see it is okay to be skeptical about what program parents have to say about their experiences? You need to be able to take the same skepticism when we view and critic your posts, as survivors, when you post them.  Remember, no crying foul because we may think you are exaggerating or not being totally truthful with your stories and accounts of your time inside of the program.

[try another castle]

k.. just so I have the logistics straight... your daughter was in SUWS. Two other girls in SUWS got turned down by aspen. (Im assuming this is following the regular rigmarole of sending a kid to wilderness and then they put in placement.) They were referred to one of the aspen schools. (which one?) Got turned down. (was there any skuttlebutt about the reasons?) and ended up in maine (elan, maybe?) and the other in the south, mayble HLA.

And as for being wrong. I never said it never happened. I was pissing and moaning about how tired I am of hearing about this with such little evidence.

So, thanks for giving me something more than the party line. Im curious to know what this facility's reasons were, if you know. also, which facility was this?