My son at Aspen Ranch

[Anonymous]

Why didn't you just send him to the church of Scientology. ? Or the army? Or maybe even nambla?

[Anonymous]

Absolutely bizarre.  Your whining is wretched.  You have stated very clearly that your child suffered from depression as diagnosed by mental health professionals, so your response was to send the child to a tough-love program rooted in fraud and composing one of many aspects of an organization that has demonstrated a tendency to harm children.  Grow up, grow a spine, and face the fact that you fucked over your child.  This Nigel-watch is slightly more ridiculous than updates on an exorcism.

[Whooter]

Absolutely bizarre.  Your whining is wretched.  You have stated very clearly that your child suffered from depression as diagnosed by mental health professionals, so your response was to send the child to a tough-love program rooted in fraud and composing one of many aspects of an organization that has demonstrated a tendency to harm children.  Grow up, grow a spine, and face the fact that you fucked over your child.  This Nigel-watch is slightly more ridiculous than updates on an exorcism.

Why not be happy for the child and the family.  Why are you always focused on yourself?  First you say all programs over medicate and now you are questioning why Aspen Ranch isnt medicationg this child.
You are not interested in learning the truth or understanding how this place works at all.  Its obvious you are not interested in the kids who go there. Are you not happy that the therapists (2 of them licensed) are speaking to the childs therapist back home?  Are you not happy that he is moving forward?  Are you happy that the therapists have a plan for him?
Do stories of programs helping kids take you out of your comfort zone?  You can go read some horror survivor stories later to get you head back on straight but try to think outside yourself for once to see what really happens inside Aspen Ranch today. Open your mind a little and let some truth in.  It will only hurt for a little while I promise.

[Troll Control]

Do stories of programs helping kids take you out of your comfort zone?

Nope.  Especially this one, which happens to be phony.  A yarn.  A fable.  Why should I be compelled by your sock puppet?

[Anonymous]

First you say all programs over medicate

Where was this said? I don't see it.

[Anonymous]

Sorry NIgel-What you have done here is clever and creepy.  You have provided enough information to make yourself into a generic parent as the industry would like them to be seen.  You have avoided providing any information that would allow anyone  to begin with your son's actual problem as seen by professionals and then look at how aspen is handling that problem.  Your use of industry expressions like "self medicate" is a give away and your refusal to answer any question that make you, your wife and your son into real individuals is the heart of the matter.
   I am happy to respond in a serious way if you respond to the specific questions I asked in a specific way.  You don't have to care whether I do or do not but if you don't you should not complain about being called a shill.
   This is a forum consisting mostly of kids and adults that have been hurt by the tough love industry.  Many have been hurt badly and had their families ripped apart and despite the limitations imposed by this anonymous format and the profanity and nonsense and self indulgent crap that is so easy to post it also consists of heart felt stories filled with details and angst written by real people trying to make their ways through iife, often without their families that they lost in their adolescent years.  
   Using this forum as a shill for Aspen or a similar business by feigning sincerity and pretending to be what you are not is creepy.  And so I am clear I would be happy to discuss all of these issues here including the bona fides of the Aspen treatment model with the same degree of anonymity that you seek as long as you will provide specific anonymous details about your son.  The one you might start with is what the contract you signed with Aspen says about your son's diagnosis of a mood disorder-depression- and their treatment of it?  Did they write down that he had a mood disorder and that they were treating it without medications?  
  I believe there is a reason you won't do it and it has nothing to do with privacy and if you do not respond in a serious way I will explain it for you in the posts to come.

[Whooter]

Sorry NIgel-What you have done here is clever and creepy.  You have provided enough information to make yourself into a generic parent as the industry would like them to be seen.  You have avoided providing any information that would allow anyone  to begin with your son's actual problem as seen by professionals and then look at how aspen is handling that problem.  Your use of industry expressions like "self medicate" is a give away and your refusal to answer any question that make you, your wife and your son into real individuals is the heart of the matter.
   I am happy to respond in a serious way if you respond to the specific questions I asked in a specific way.  You don't have to care whether I do or do not but if you don't you should not complain about being called a shill.
   This is a forum consisting mostly of kids and adults that have been hurt by the tough love industry.  Many have been hurt badly and had their families ripped apart and despite the limitations imposed by this anonymous format and the profanity and nonsense and self indulgent crap that is so easy to post it also consists of heart felt stories filled with details and angst written by real people trying to make their ways through iife, often without their families that they lost in their adolescent years.  
   Using this forum as a shill for Aspen or a similar business by feigning sincerity and pretending to be what you are not is creepy.  And so I am clear I would be happy to discuss all of these issues here including the bona fides of the Aspen treatment model with the same degree of anonymity that you seek as long as you will provide specific anonymous details about your son.  The one you might start with is what the contract you signed with Aspen says about your son's diagnosis of a mood disorder-depression- and their treatment of it?  Did they write down that he had a mood disorder and that they were treating it without medications?  
  I believe there is a reason you won't do it and it has nothing to do with privacy and if you do not respond in a serious way I will explain it for you in the posts to come.

When my daughter was enrolled we had no such clause in the contract stating whether or not my child would be medicated.  The reason is because there is no way to know how each child is going to respond.  A hospital doesnt determine ahead of time what medication you will be taking.  It is determined by need and the outcome of the procedures, body weight at the time and other factors.  Each child is different, some are taken off medication completely and others are placed on new medications.  Unless there were religious beliefs which required that your son or daughter not be medicated this is the only reason I can see for having a clause like that in there.

Secondly you are trying to bully Nigel into giving the answers you want by threatening to label him as a "shill" if he doesnt.  What if we were to ask a survivor about the happy times and positive effects the program had on them and they refused to respond.  Could we call the survivor a liar?  Maybe label them with an unpleasant title?  Disregard their story as an attempt to blame the program on their failed life and unhappiness?  Or should we just allow each person to tell the details they way they are most comfortable with?

Nigel seemed sincere enough when he stated he wanted to keep some information private to protect his son and possibly identity.  He responded to your post and you should respect his right to tell his story in his own way the same as you would anyone else here.  Would you like it if we threatened you if you didn’t answer specific questions?  Is what you are doing right?

Why dont you try to rephrase your question to Nigel if you would like more detail or are interested in a different aspect.....

also "self medicate" is not an industry term (you need to get out more).  This is a common expression used throughout the therapeutic community and has been for decades.

[Anonymous]

Sorry guest- you are right - self medicated is a typical term used by the "therapeutic community" along with a lot of other terms which it chooses not to define like "therapeutic community."  It is  not a term used by kids that smoke grass or take pills to get high and it is not a term used by their parents either.
     What every legitimate medical or "therapeutic" institution that provides services does is begin with a diagnosis- ususally a differential diagnosis- comes to a conclusion about the actual diagnosis and then provides traetment for that diagnosis. That treatment is then put in writing as applicable to the diagnosis and "informed consent" warnings are given.  My initial question to NIgel simply asks him to indicate what the Aspen diagnosis for his son was and whether the contract he signed indicated that his son was being treated for the diagnosis that the professionals concluded his son had.  It is an easy question.  
    But this is easy. NIgel can answer my questions or I will go away.  He can decide.  I played this same game with either a different or the same industry shill several years ago when he was trying to distinguish between good and bad facilities that purport to treat kids and as soon as we got to a list of specifics he lost interest and retreated to generalities.  Either way is ok with me.  I am sure there are worse things to be in life then being an industry shill but going on a Board like this one to do it just seems particularly creepy to me.

[Whooter]

Sorry guest- you are right - self medicated is a typical term used by the "therapeutic community" along with a lot of other terms which it chooses not to define like "therapeutic community." It is not a term used by kids that smoke grass or take pills to get high and it is not a term used by their parents either.

Its okay, no need to appologize to me.  I agree they are not terms used by kids or typical parents.  I never used them myself until I was a parent and had a child in therapy.  But this was way before my child entered a program.

What every legitimate medical or "therapeutic" institution that provides services does is begin with a diagnosis- ususally a differential diagnosis- comes to a conclusion about the actual diagnosis and then provides traetment for that diagnosis. That treatment is then put in writing as applicable to the diagnosis and "informed consent" warnings are given. My initial question to NIgel simply asks him to indicate what the Aspen diagnosis for his son was and whether the contract he signed indicated that his son was being treated for the diagnosis that the professionals concluded his son had. It is an easy question.

That is a nicer way to put it.  I think it would be easy enough to answer.

But this is easy. NIgel can answer my questions or I will go away. He can decide.

That is what is nice about an open forum.  I have had people ask me personal questions and some I refused to answer.  Some people went away, others stuck around and called me names and hung signs and labels on me.  It depends on the type of person you are.  I ask people questions off and on here and if they dont want to answer me I dont resort to name calling or categorizing them with derogatory terms. But everyone is different.


 

I played this same game with either a different or the same industry shill several years ago when he was trying to distinguish between good and bad facilities that purport to treat kids and as soon as we got to a list of specifics he lost interest and retreated to generalities.

A little advice may be not to approach it like a game.  This isn’t a game to Nigel as it wasn’t for me.  If it is games you want go off to another forum which excepts that.  Most of us here are interested in the industry and take the current events very seriously.  We have either had kids in programs are deciding or are kids who attended programs.  None of us approach it lightly.

Either way is ok with me. I am sure there are worse things to be in life then being an industry shill but going on a Board like this one to do it just seems particularly creepy to me.

Do you see that you prejudge people? call them names?   Then you expect them to be open and honest with you?  I can see why you were not successful with the previous parent you spoke of.
Try to loosen up, share a little about yourself to Nigel and have a little give and take.  It may help you to attain your goals.

[Anonymous]

sorry nigel/guest
the questions I asked were reasonable and had nothing to do with privacy.  The forum is anonyomous- remember.
I will return when you answer the specific questions I asked.  I will check periodically.  Bye
Until then you can keep earning your living as a shill and I will keep doing what I do.

[Whooter]

sorry nigel/guest
the questions I asked were reasonable and had nothing to do with privacy.  The forum is anonyomous- remember.
I will return when you answer the specific questions I asked.  I will check periodically.  Bye
Until then you can keep earning your living as a shill and I will keep doing what I do.

Ha,Ha,Ha I think it is a safe guess that our friend does not make a living in public relations.  Take care "Just wondering"... interesting characters that come and go here.

[psy]

Please answer my specific questions.  Otherwise the only reasonable conclusion is that you are a shill for aspen and what you are doing here is dishonest.

Look.  I hate to take the "other side" but that plain doesn't make sense.  His writing style doesn't match Whooter's anyway, and his is pretty distinctive.

There are good reasons why he might not want to mention details of his kid's stay, among which is the possibility that the program might identify him by those details.

[Ursus]

Please answer my specific questions.  Otherwise the only reasonable conclusion is that you are a shill for aspen and what you are doing here is dishonest.

Look.  I hate to take the "other side" but that plain doesn't make sense.  His writing style doesn't match Whooter's anyway, and his is pretty distinctive.

There are good reasons why he might not want to mention details of his kid's stay, among which is the possibility that the program might identify him by those details.

The possibility of Aspen Ranch identifying Nigel's son is not necessarily a bad thing, though I do admit it is a gamble.

On the plus side, it might make program personnel behave more responsibly and to be a little less coercive in their treatment of him. This was usually the case at Hyde when dealing with very involved and proactive families. Knowing that the spotlight is on ya can sometimes cause people to clean up their act somewhat.

[Ursus]

Nigel, do you know if Aspen Ranch is using an "emotional growth curriculum" called Lifesteps?

They were considering using it in 1998. At the time, other Aspen programs which were already using it were Mount Bachelor Academy, Copper Canyon Academy, NorthStar, and Academy at Swift River.

It appears that, as of 2007, select students at Aspen Ranch may be being transported to Copper Canyon for these workshops.

As you must know, Mount Bachelor Academy is now no longer, in large part quite probably due to their reluctance to reveal the specific contents of these seminars / workshops. There is certainly a huge economic factor in all this, to be sure, but ... quite frankly, I don't think Aspen Ed nor its corporate parent CRC Health want anything to do with any state or federal agency telling them how to run their programs. This has always been the mantra, so to speak, of the "parent-choice" industry.

Amongst 23 other charges, the Oregon DHS determined that:

7. MBA violated OAR 413-215-0076(3) regarding behavior management in that MBA required students to engage in an "emotional growth" curriculum, included but not limited to the Lifesteps program that was punitive, humiliating, degrading, and traumatizing. The "emotional growth" curriculum included, but was not limited to, sexualized role play in front of staff and peers, requiring students to say derogatory phrases about themselves in front of staff and peers, requiring students to reenact past physical abuse in front of staff and peers, permitting staff to engage in the usage of derogatory names, phrases and ridicule of students, and deprivation of sleep.[/list]

Doesn't all this stuff raise any red flags for you yet?

[NIGEL]

Nigel, do you know if Aspen Ranch is using an "emotional growth curriculum" called Lifesteps?

They were considering using it in 1998. At the time, other Aspen programs which were already using it were Mount Bachelor Academy, Copper Canyon Academy, NorthStar, and Academy at Swift River.

It appears that, as of 2007, select students at Aspen Ranch may be being transported to Copper Canyon for these workshops.

As you must know, Mount Bachelor Academy is now no longer, in large part quite probably due to their reluctance to reveal the specific contents of these seminars / workshops. There is certainly a huge economic factor in all this, to be sure, but ... quite frankly, I don't think Aspen Ed nor its corporate parent CRC Health want anything to do with any state or federal agency telling them how to run their programs. This has always been the mantra, so to speak, of the "parent-choice" industry.

Amongst 23 other charges, the Oregon DHS determined that:

7. MBA violated OAR 413-215-0076(3) regarding behavior management in that MBA required students to engage in an "emotional growth" curriculum, included but not limited to the Lifesteps program that was punitive, humiliating, degrading, and traumatizing. The "emotional growth" curriculum included, but was not limited to, sexualized role play in front of staff and peers, requiring students to say derogatory phrases about themselves in front of staff and peers, requiring students to reenact past physical abuse in front of staff and peers, permitting staff to engage in the usage of derogatory names, phrases and ridicule of students, and deprivation of sleep.[/list]

Doesn't all this stuff raise any red flags for you yet?

Yes I am aware of what has happened at MBA and yes it has raised some serious red flags.  I have asked about it and my son's therapist has stated that they don't use any sort of therapy that even remotely resembles what was reported at MBA.  I have looked over all the info in the parent handbook I have and nothing comes up that suggests they might.  I have asked my son many questions about what goes on in his group therapy sessions and nothing he has said has made me feel concerned.  That being said, I am keeping as close an eye on everything that I can and I am going to continue to ask questions.  
What is consumng most of my time and thoughts right now is my son's deep desire to come home.  I am sure that any parent can understand the pain my wife and I are experiencing.  We want the best for him and are seeing some improvement in many different areas, but it is very hard to leave him there.  As I have stated before, we are seeking advice from many different people and we are going to make a decision fairly soon on whether or not we are going to bring him home or put our trust in The Aspen Ranch and leave him there for a while longer.  I go out over Thanksgiving and get to spend some decent time with him.  I hope to have a better handle on the whole situation following my visit.