AJAX 13

[ajax13]

Speaking of calling AARC, two of my pals are still waiting for Natalie Oldcomer to get back to them about their records from AARC.  Neither of these people saw a psychiatrist throughout their stay in AARC, and both are grads. 

[Anonymous]

well surprise, surprise AJAX does ANOTHER side-step and brings on Chicken-shit and some one identifying themsleve as the new honoured guest!!

and don't  'your buddies' know how to use the telly either?

Chicken shit certainly has an appropriate name, though - just as incompetent at picking up a telephone and using it as Ajax and 100% of all 2 year olds living in Calgary. Also, if you could read a bit VAUSE'S CREDENTIALS have been substantiated througho out this thread and a few others. It is your budd - AJAX (the true chicken-shit) who refuses to answer any direct questions about anythiing and won't enlighten us on his credentials that make him some expert in reading evaluation literature or addiction research. Somehow you morons seem to compeletely miss that VERY IMPORTANT fact. But oh well, I never assumed I was arguing with anyone with an IQ over 75.

[Anonymous]

well surprise, surprise AJAX does ANOTHER side-step and brings on Chicken-shit and some one identifying themsleve as the new honoured guest!!

and don't  'your buddies' know how to use the telly either?

Chicken shit certainly has an appropriate name, though - just as incompetent at picking up a telephone and using it as Ajax and 100% of all 2 year olds living in Calgary. Also, if you could read a bit VAUSE'S CREDENTIALS have been substantiated througho out this thread and a few others. It is your budd - AJAX (the true chicken-shit) who refuses to answer any direct questions about anythiing and won't enlighten us on his credentials that make him some expert in reading evaluation literature or addiction research. Somehow you morons seem to compeletely miss that VERY IMPORTANT fact. But oh well, I never assumed I was arguing with anyone with an IQ over 75.

Please, continue to call attention to the fact that you can't or won't answer the questions directed towards you.  And just to head it off, Ajax isn't claiming to treat anyone for anything so whatever education/experience he has/has not, is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.  If you simply cannot distinguish between the two, continuing this with you w ould be fruitless and a waste of my time.

[Anonymous]

Dear 'please'
please tell me when Ajax has answered a question directly and Pa-leezz try to get yer wee brain to understand that IF ajax had ANY kind of education in the field of treatment research and/or evaluation he would be qualified to JUDGE what ARRC requires to be legit and what Vause requires to be legit. SO IT IS PERFECTLY legitimate and relevant to the discussion at hand for anyone  to ask ajax what HIS credentials are. Other people have on here.

If you would take the time to look at how this thread began the discussion was started as a request from AJax to establish what qualifies him to judge eveluation research and post secondary education institutions and programs. NOw if he had any sort of experince attending those sorts of places he might; if not he certainly is not competent to do so. Mind you he proves that over and over again without even telling us what kind of edcuational experience he has. So in essence one could assert it is a moot point . . .  However, it it so interesting how ajax continues to evade everything that he can't deal with . . . . .

[Anonymous]

Dear 'please'
please tell me when Ajax has answered a question directly and Pa-leezz try to get yer wee brain to understand that IF ajax had ANY kind of education in the field of treatment research and/or evaluation he would be qualified to JUDGE what ARRC requires to be legit and what Vause requires to be legit. SO IT IS PERFECTLY legitimate and relevant to the discussion at hand for anyone  to ask ajax what HIS credentials are. Other people have on here.

You don't have to have a formal education to ask pointed and direct questions.  Again, the focus here is Vause and AARC.  They are the ones who have direct effect and control over kids lives.  For profit.  THEY are the ones who owe a direct answer instead of all the dancing around the issue.

If you would take the time to look at how this thread began the discussion was started as a request from AJax to establish what qualifies him to judge eveluation research and post secondary education institutions and programs. NOw if he had any sort of experince attending those sorts of places he might; if not he certainly is not competent to do so. Mind you he proves that over and over again without even telling us what kind of edcuational experience he has. So in essence one could assert it is a moot point . . .  However, it it so interesting how ajax continues to evade everything that he can't deal with . . . . .

You're so deep into the Kool Aid, I fear you may be lost forever.

[TheWho]

You don't have to have a formal education to ask pointed and direct questions.  Again, the focus here is Vause and AARC.  They are the ones who have direct effect and control over kids lives.  For profit.  THEY are the ones who owe a direct answer instead of all the dancing around the issue.

No you don’t need a formal education to ask questions, I agree.  But unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it the research results stand until such time as there is a formal challenge to Dr. Patton or a peer review is asked for or you could present your own study.  I don’t think ajax should be ashamed that he has no formal degree but at the same time attacking someone’s credentials doesn’t help any either unless you can weigh them against established requirements.  Until such time as a Benchmark, of some sort, can be established then we have to accept status quo.  Vause cant be expected to adhere to everyones wishes, it would be impossible (i.e. one person would want a masters degree, another a PhD etc.)… who decides?  Ajax?  A board should be established (if it is not all ready) and they should define the standard that best fills the job description.



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[Anonymous]

deal all
   I am more and more confused.  Who, have you read the study? Have you seen it? Has the study been printed in one of the journals in the field for peers to review?  How does one get to see it?  Miller newton bragged about his studies.  They were referenced in books he wrote that were published by prominent publishers. The studies did not exist or were nonsense.  Given aarc's pedigree, which is undeniable even by those who believe it does good work, asking to have the study available somewhere for public viewing is a reasonable request, isn't it.
  And who, no personalities or discussions about the motives pf the questioner.  This is just about the study.

[TheWho]

deal all
   I am more and more confused.  Who, have you read the study? Have you seen it? Has the study been printed in one of the journals in the field for peers to review?  How does one get to see it?  Miller newton bragged about his studies.  They were referenced in books he wrote that were published by prominent publishers. The studies did not exist or were nonsense.  Given aarc's pedigree, which is undeniable even by those who believe it does good work, asking to have the study available somewhere for public viewing is a reasonable request, isn't it.

 

No I haven’t seen the entire study or have run a crossed it in any journals.  It would be great to review the raw data but that info is typically not released unless you are doing a follow-up report or peer review.  Asking for the review to be made public is a reasonable request.

And who, no personalities or discussions about the motives pf the questioner.  This is just about the study.

I am with you on this one, (and I think it applies to many here) wouldn’t that be great if we could all keep this whole discussion just focused on the study/AARC instead of taking pot shots at peoples education, weight or health issues.  I am all for just focusing on the issues.

[ajax13]

Judge Cook Stanhope is morbidly obese.  That is not a pot shot.  It is indicative of a serious mental health issue.

[Anonymous]

so where is the study?  I am not asking for raw data.  Just the study.  Can we see it?  If they have extraordinary results treating serious drug addicts it is important that their results be made known so they can help others.  Where is the study?  Why hasn't it been published?  And again who- you have said that what matters is the truth and you try toappear reasonable.    The truth is that the leader of aarc was trained by the leadedr of Kids and  the leader of Kids made numerous false claims.  Those are facts that no one disputes.  That deos not mean that the leader of aarc is a fraud but it certainly means that it is fair to have questions about claims of a study by aarc?  You have said that people/parents need to do research so they can make intelligent choices.  Can you help me out here?  

[TheWho]

Judge Cook Stanhope is morbidly obese.  That is not a pot shot.  It is indicative of a serious mental health issue.

Its a medical issue, could be mental health, thyroid, genetics.  Where is the report which indicated it was due to mental health.
If you are trying to debate on a serious level why would you bring up peoples medical issues.  Why does it matter if a person is sick, has cancer, going bald or weight issues?  I dont see the connection, what is wrong with you?

[TheWho]

so where is the study?  I am not asking for raw data.  Just the study.  Can we see it?  If they have extraordinary results treating serious drug addicts it is important that their results be made known so they can help others.  Where is the study?  Why hasn't it been published?  And again who- you have said that what matters is the truth and you try toappear reasonable.    The truth is that the leader of aarc was trained by the leadedr of Kids and  the leader of Kids made numerous false claims.  Those are facts that no one disputes.  That deos not mean that the leader of aarc is a fraud but it certainly means that it is fair to have questions about claims of a study by aarc?  You have said that people/parents need to do research so they can make intelligent choices.  Can you help me out here?  

I would probably start by contacting Dr. Pattons’ office and ask where or if the report has been published.  If it hasn’t been published then ask how you could get a copy of the full report.

@ Ajax,  Why are peoples medical conditions so important to you?  You seem to want to gain understanding into AARC and a study they released, but you make these odd posts about what you feel a person medical state is.  I don’t see the connection.  You would be surprised how many people sit on the board of major corporations and hospitals who are suffering from cancer, heart conditions and are trying to overcome major medical obstacles but they continue to contribute their time and expertise.  Many of these people would rather be productive then sit at home dwelling on their condition.  You should feel lucky you do not have this challenge in your life right now.



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[Anonymous]

no who
you are cheating
Where is the study
Why don't you ask someone, anyone for it
You express concern about people making good choices
Here is your chance
It is tangible
A program says it has a study to support claims of helping adolescent drug addicts
It is the successor to a program that made fraudlulent claims of studies
Maybe you are spending your time challenging the manners of a person who has called a fraud a fraud.  Maybe he should be thanked.  Maybe he is frustrated because he is telling the truth and having trouble finding people to listen because folks like you want to talk about the truth not look for it.

This is pretty simple if you really care about kids and familes.
Find the study!!!

[TheWho]

no who
you are cheating
Where is the study
Why don't you ask someone, anyone for it
You express concern about people making good choices
Here is your chance
It is tangible
A program says it has a study to support claims of helping adolescent drug addicts
It is the successor to a program that made fraudlulent claims of studies
Maybe you are spending your time challenging the manners of a person who has called a fraud a fraud.  Maybe he should be thanked.  Maybe he is frustrated because he is telling the truth and having trouble finding people to listen because folks like you want to talk about the truth not look for it.

This is pretty simple if you really care about kids and familes.
Find the study!!!

Looks like someone saved me some work... here is the link.

http://proxify.com/p/011010A0000110/http:=2f=2ffornits.com=2fsmf=2findex.php=3ftopic=3d25625.0

But,unfortunately, I have never seen facts change anyones point of view here on fornits.  Everytime a study is posted no one believes the outcome (unless it is negative of course).  People are always asking for outcome studies, but they never read them or learn from them when presented.  I had always found that interesting, but never quit understood why.  Its the only way any of us can continue to learn and grow.

I will need some time myself to review the study, but it seems to be done independently with the help of the Butler Center for Research so it is going to have some solid credibility that the numbers are solid with an approved statistical approach.

Just Wondering,Let me know what you think.



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[Anonymous]

When a study is requested by the program, most likely funded by the program (anon donor, riiiiight) and the founder and director are part of the team doing the study, it tends to call said study into question.  For most people with critical thinking skills still intact anyway.