Author Topic: level of education attained by program parents and...  (Read 13532 times)

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Offline TheWho

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #75 on: December 17, 2007, 03:57:53 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Based on what?  And you still fail to see the point.  Child abusers will be MORE HIGHLY CONCENTRATED in TBS's because they can ply their trade and get away with it.  It's simple.  There's just no way for victims to respond to the abuse.  You think CM's don't KNOW this?  If so, you're dumber than I originally thought.


You can believe what you want.  I have seen the types of people that TBS's attract for employment, the total opposite of prison systems.  If you would rather be in prison or send you kid there that is your choice.  I just know differently.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #76 on: December 17, 2007, 04:00:11 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Guest"
I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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Offline Anonymous

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #77 on: December 17, 2007, 04:04:24 PM »
The staffs' "abusiveness"at a program is irrelevent, in the same way the  concentration camp staff "abusiveness" is irrelevent. Like concentration camps, the majority of these programs, asr, cedu, desisto, etc. practise systematic torture.

The torture will be dealt out by detainees in order to be allowed to leave, and in an attempt to avoid being tortuered themselves. The staff will over see the torture as concetration camp gurads oversaw torture. They think of it as their job, tough, but necessary, cruel, but for the greater good.

In my experience, not all the staff was "sadistic", rather, they were vulnerable people (former drug addicts and prostitues or abducted teens, who were so traumatized, they continued to stay in the hell into which they were tossed, as a way of revictimizing themselves, and others) who were used by the program leaders as cogs in an abuse machine, and didn't really understand what they were doing. So, this issue is largely moot
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #78 on: December 17, 2007, 04:10:04 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
The staffs' "abusiveness"at a program is irrelevent, in the same way the  concentration camp staff "abusiveness" is irrelevent. Like concentration camps, the majority of these programs, asr, cedu, desisto, etc. practise systematic torture.

The torture will be dealt out by detainees in order to be allowed to leave, and in an attempt to avoid being tortuered themselves. The staff will over see the torture as concetration camp gurads oversaw torture. They think of it as their job, tough, but necessary, cruel, but for the greater good.

In my experience, not all the staff was "sadistic", rather, they were vulnerable people (former drug addicts and prostitues or abducted teens, who were so traumatized, they continued to stay in the hell into which they were tossed, as a way of revictimizing themselves, and others) who were used by the program leaders as cogs in an abuse machine, and didn't really understand what they were doing. So, this issue is largely moot


Ha,Ha,Ha,  Fornits brings out the best in people, thats for sure.  You gotta love this place.  great post.  You must be the same guy who posted above and who posted the typhoon/Duct tape post.
Good job, you are too funny!!



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #79 on: December 18, 2007, 07:42:09 AM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""
The staffs' "abusiveness"at a program is irrelevent, in the same way the  concentration camp staff "abusiveness" is irrelevent. Like concentration camps, the majority of these programs, asr, cedu, desisto, etc. practise systematic torture.

The torture will be dealt out by detainees in order to be allowed to leave, and in an attempt to avoid being tortuered themselves. The staff will over see the torture as concetration camp gurads oversaw torture. They think of it as their job, tough, but necessary, cruel, but for the greater good.

In my experience, not all the staff was "sadistic", rather, they were vulnerable people (former drug addicts and prostitues or abducted teens, who were so traumatized, they continued to stay in the hell into which they were tossed, as a way of revictimizing themselves, and others) who were used by the program leaders as cogs in an abuse machine, and didn't really understand what they were doing. So, this issue is largely moot

Ha,Ha,Ha,  Fornits brings out the best in people, thats for sure.  You gotta love this place.  great post.  You must be the same guy who posted above and who posted the typhoon/Duct tape post.
Good job, you are too funny!!



...


TheWho thinks child abuse is just the funniest thing going.
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Offline Antigen

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #80 on: December 18, 2007, 11:28:22 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Botched Programming""
Quote from: ""Guest""
from what i saw at HLA, most parents were liberal arts college grads, suburban middle-class, many with their own small bussinesses. There were also quite a few upper-class families, i wont mention specifics, but many parents were c.e.o's or were on the boards of big hotel chains, food companies, designer labels, banks, international shipping and real estate companies.

Now that you picked up on this, it will not amaze you that these are the parents that the program's salesmen target. This way they can use the line...."What kind of price tag can you put on your child's life."[/color]

Mom and dad both postal workers. Dad had driven trucks and done AC and refrigeration repair while Mom stayed home with her soaps. We were not affluent but grandma and grandpa were. They were also in tight with the Shriners, AA and certain political/business figures allegedly affiliated with the Mad Monk. Jack Slesinger lived upstairs from grandpa and grandma. There was a picture of me at about age 4 or 5 at the helm of his yacht all dressed up in sailor garb. I wonder if my mom threw it out along with all of the other 'clutter' her 'therapist' told her was holding her back.

Quote
I've always thought that the high price tags of program are a "guilt" self-punishing mechanism for the parents. They feel "guilty" that they are abandoning and destroying their kids (they're aware of this at a certain level) so they use the high money expenditure to punish themselves for their transgression, thusly absolving themselves of the guilt.

Mom tried this on me once. I told her if she had only asked me I could have saved her lots of money, time and trouble.

Quote from: ""other guest""
Quote
Also, if they are spending a great deal of money on a program they can tell themselves they are sacrificing for their kids. This helps them hide the reality of their abuse from themselves

+666 insightful. This explains quite a bit of it.

Combine the above with "It's expensive, so it must be good", "your kid will DIE if he doesn't get HELP NOW, so you have to PAY OR ELSE", and the "Oh, we sent him to a posh school for kids like him, very expensive" factors, and you get a pretty cohesive picture.
[/quote]

I've kept pretty quiet about this till now, hoping I'd be able to have some contact w/ my niece through the family while she runs the gauntlet. I just spoke w/ my sister in law the other day. and remembered what a foolish idea that really is when she started telling me that my niece is a whole lot better, but not quite ready yet after 18 months. Then she said that she'd just go right back to what she was doing if she pulled her out too soon--"Your kid will DIE...". I told her that would only be true if she and the program pounded it into the kid's head so she believed it and that I'd heard the same rap from hundreds of parents, including my own, over the last 30 years or so. My niece was supposed to have her second two week home visit since she'd been there.

Everything was still cool enough till she started talking about how my brother had abandoned the kid. Now that pissed me off! My brother may be a phenomenal fuckup in many ways, but to say that he wilfully abandoned his daughter when, in reality, it took the bitch 3 separate legal actions to sever contact was just beyond the pale! After I opened my mouth, it finally dawned on me that, to a large degree, her induction into the program has more to do with a dirty and protracted divorce than anything at all to do with her daughter.

I wonder how many program parents are divorced? I remember being piqued by how many adopted kids there were and how many with scoliosis. I think those are common threads more than money. Lest we forget, there's a booming public sector market that doesn't require the parents to pay a dime. Martin Lee Anderson died on his first day of "therapy" in one of those. His family were not game for it, but my understanding is that other state funded programs like Eckerd Youth Alternative and the STAR Academies operate on basically the same parent group structure as the Seed and Straight, Inc. No big surprise there, since Florida Department of Law Enforcement and Drug Free America Foundation have always been in tight w/ the 'colorful' characters on Florida's political stage.

I think money is part of it, guilt is part of it, I've met some of the most sadistic, dark, insidious mindfucker parents imaginable. That's probably a lot of it too. But there's a simpler, more practical explanation that covers most of it all by itself. Stepcraft and the rest of the ToughLove hate group is a cult. It started out that way in the daze of Bill Wilson and has remained so through the daze of Nancy Reagan, Dr. Phool and some thousands of little tin god types on the level of the Who, Lon Woodbury and how many others.

When I explained my weird history to a good friend from Haiti, she listened patiently till I was done and I asked her what she though. "Yeah, zombie", she said. Then she explained how certain unscrupulous shamen would make slaves of people in a desperate state for various reasons--young orphans, terminally ill or just shell shocked from life in the wild parts near the Dominican border. They did this by convincing the mark that they had magic to save them from whatever trouble.

It's an old scam, old as the hills. But people continue to fall for it if they are desperate and haven't had sufficient experience with real community.
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Offline jjpinks

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Re: level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #81 on: December 18, 2007, 04:03:29 PM »
These are my answers for my parents at the time that they put me away.
Quote from: ""Guest""

What level of education have you attained? What was your major?
What do you do for a living?

Father=business major (V.P. Sun Trust Bank SW Fl.) Mother=Teacher with a doctorate


Thought that I would add my $.02 in this post.
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Offline AuntieEm2

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #82 on: December 18, 2007, 04:37:04 PM »
Antigen wrote:
Quote
I've kept pretty quiet about this till now, hoping I'd be able to have some contact w/ my niece through the family while she runs the gauntlet. I just spoke w/ my sister in law the other day. and remembered what a foolish idea that really is when she started telling me that my niece is a whole lot better, but not quite ready yet after 18 months. Then she said that she'd just go right back to what she was doing if she pulled her out too soon--"Your kid will DIE...".
Really sorry to hear this. It must break your heart.

Yes, I think any kind of family trauma or conflict can be a catalyst to a parent's decision to send his or her child to a program. Look at the self-assessment forms they use! This one from Aspen Achievement Academy:
 
http://www.parentcheckin.com/assessment/assessment.asp?progid={3A6498E6-146C-4D7A-BF60-4B036B164C9F}

(Sorry, don't know why the URL function is not working for me just now.)

If you browse the AAA site, no matter what problem you say your child has, it points you to the same assessment form. And, oh Lucky Winner, what might our very first question be?
Quote
Has your child had recurring problems due to...Any traumatic events or changes in his /her life? (i.e. abuse, divorce, death,etc.)
So I think you are right on the money when you point to divorce, and I would suggest any trauma or conflict may be viewed by the programs as a sales opportunity.

Very next question?
Quote
Has your child had recurring problems due to...Inability to manage anger?

How can a kid win? I mean really, how? Get abused, have your parents divorce, have one of your parents die, but don't get angry?

It's healthy and normal for a child to be angry about traumas and conflicts like that. Adults certainly show extreme emotions under those circumstances.

Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Oz girl

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #83 on: December 18, 2007, 05:07:32 PM »
I dont know if this is a question for another forum but I am interested in what makes some parents run for the hills and others stay with it for years and sometimes multiple programs even when there is no evidence of it working.
I would imagine that if you were not well off and you committed a large sum of money to a program you would be reluctant to not at least give it an honest go for a few months. But to keep your kid in for more than a year when they are getting dropped down some levels I find more hard to fathom. So I can strongly see the cult argument

Ginger I recall you once saying your dad eventually came to see Straight and the seed differently to your mum. What do you think turned him around? afterall you were not the only kid in your family to go through this.
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Offline Anonymous

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #84 on: December 18, 2007, 05:35:58 PM »
I killed both of my parents before going into the program...

Just kidding...
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Offline Anonymous

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #85 on: December 18, 2007, 06:46:18 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
I killed both of my parents before going into the program...

Just kidding...


I killed both of my parents after going into the program, and I still get the giggle fits thinking about it.

No, seriously. Giggle fits. My friends are like "Dude, you're fucking giggling", and I'm all like "What, no I'm not", and they go "You're thinking about when you killed your parents, aren't you?" and I go "yeah" and then they say it's giggle fits.

Oh well, I don't want a cure.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #86 on: December 18, 2007, 07:30:45 PM »
You should help others deal with their issues...  :wink:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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yo
« Reply #87 on: December 18, 2007, 07:55:31 PM »
Quote
I killed both of my parents after going into the program, and I still get the giggle fits thinking about it.


No, we're still here.


and everyday is living hell. just finish us off, quickly. the guilt will otherwise.
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Offline Anonymous

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #88 on: December 19, 2007, 03:43:59 AM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
I dont know if this is a question for another forum but I am interested in what makes some parents run for the hills and others stay with it for years and sometimes multiple programs even when there is no evidence of it working.
I would imagine that if you were not well off and you committed a large sum of money to a program you would be reluctant to not at least give it an honest go for a few months. But to keep your kid in for more than a year when they are getting dropped down some levels I find more hard to fathom. So I can strongly see the cult argument

Ginger I recall you once saying your dad eventually came to see Straight and the seed differently to your mum. What do you think turned him around? afterall you were not the only kid in your family to go through this.


From what i've read (not that I'm an expert on your life ginger- me stranger) Ginger's parents are far out on the spectrum of "cult" involved parents.

The parents who leave their kids there a LONG time do so because they don't want anything to do with their kids, Putting your kid is a socially acceptable was of abandoning your children.
Other parents, straight out, want to PUNISH their kids, and keep them their for that reason. There is a spectrum of "evil" to program parents. They range from "decent parents" whose kids go voluntarily- the whole family is duped, (They sound great when they describe themselves) all the way to parents of adopted/ inherited (divorce) kids they couldn't care less about, or are actively interested in destroying

Remember, parents who are involved with these places, aren;t mentally fit
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Offline Anonymous

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #89 on: December 19, 2007, 03:45:45 AM »
do you think if parents are in the "arts" they are less likely to put their kids away?
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