Author Topic: level of education attained by program parents and...  (Read 13473 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2007, 05:12:30 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
programs in general were worse back then
They continue to improve is many peoples point.  So we shouldn’t be using examples from 10 to 30 years ago to define todays schools.
there are schools which are worse now....like TB or casa by the sea, or the numerous "boot camps" just across the border in mexico.

Quote
Quote
2 : to subject to confinement
I agree with this.  This could also mean confined to ones bedroom for a week or being grounded.  But people typically don’t call it incarcerated.  I think the terminology is a little off.
There is a differenece between grounding and being shipped off to a faraway place that you physically cannot leave. When one is grounded, they may still leave the house, and although the consequences may be severe from your parents, they will not involve the millitary hellicopters, search dogs, the risk of death due to exposure, or arrest due to not having an ID or running away. Also, you are forgetting how many kids are COURT ORDERED to programs. yes, they use helicopters. At HLA, they used their connections and proximity to the ranger base for help with finding runaways. and if the cops saw you, they arrested you and took you back, regardless of how legal it is to do so.

Quote
Quote
of course in most "traditional" boarding schools a majority of students are "warehoused"
So warehoused means having a bunch of kids together in one place.  They could be warehoused at school or at summer camp, or warehoused in a wilderness program or church group, warehoused at a local high school for the day.
So warehousing doesn’t seem to be an issue but the length of time does.

The parents intentions, distance from home, freedom within the warehouse, the child's willingness to go, ability to leave, along with the length of time are all factors which determine warehousing and the degree of incarceration.

It's possible to have kids which are technically "warehoused" in the same institution with kids who are there for other reasons.

one must go to school. there is no way around it, and choosing not to home school a child is even preferable. sending a child away becouse you dont want to deal with them, and want to be able to spend more time bangin your new husband/wife, or if you are simply unable to get control over your kids, are all intentions which seperate a kid going to a boarding school or summer camp, or tbs, (under which they fall into the "warehoused" category), from the kids that go to boarding school for the education and kids that enjoy summer camp.


stress positions are considered a form of torture. anyone going to deny the use of stress positions in tbs's?



I was tortured recently at a place that had been open for 30 years, and was shut down not long after I left. The place practiced systematic torture of the sort the communist thought reform prisons practiced.

Of course this isn't the topic.

Every topic is hijacked by the child torturer and turned into a question of "does abuse happen" "can you really call that abuse"

Doesn’t this qualify as spamming? Can't the child torturer be banned?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2007, 04:37:29 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
programs in general were worse back then
They continue to improve is many peoples point.  So we shouldn’t be using examples from 10 to 30 years ago to define todays schools.
there are schools which are worse now....like TB or casa by the sea, or the numerous "boot camps" just across the border in mexico.

Quote
Quote
2 : to subject to confinement
I agree with this.  This could also mean confined to ones bedroom for a week or being grounded.  But people typically don’t call it incarcerated.  I think the terminology is a little off.
There is a differenece between grounding and being shipped off to a faraway place that you physically cannot leave. When one is grounded, they may still leave the house, and although the consequences may be severe from your parents, they will not involve the millitary hellicopters, search dogs, the risk of death due to exposure, or arrest due to not having an ID or running away. Also, you are forgetting how many kids are COURT ORDERED to programs. yes, they use helicopters. At HLA, they used their connections and proximity to the ranger base for help with finding runaways. and if the cops saw you, they arrested you and took you back, regardless of how legal it is to do so.

Quote
Quote
of course in most "traditional" boarding schools a majority of students are "warehoused"
So warehoused means having a bunch of kids together in one place.  They could be warehoused at school or at summer camp, or warehoused in a wilderness program or church group, warehoused at a local high school for the day.
So warehousing doesn’t seem to be an issue but the length of time does.

The parents intentions, distance from home, freedom within the warehouse, the child's willingness to go, ability to leave, along with the length of time are all factors which determine warehousing and the degree of incarceration.

It's possible to have kids which are technically "warehoused" in the same institution with kids who are there for other reasons.

one must go to school. there is no way around it, and choosing not to home school a child is even preferable. sending a child away becouse you dont want to deal with them, and want to be able to spend more time bangin your new husband/wife, or if you are simply unable to get control over your kids, are all intentions which seperate a kid going to a boarding school or summer camp, or tbs, (under which they fall into the "warehoused" category), from the kids that go to boarding school for the education and kids that enjoy summer camp.


stress positions are considered a form of torture. anyone going to deny the use of stress positions in tbs's?


I was tortured recently at a place that had been open for 30 years, and was shut down not long after I left. The place practiced systematic torture of the sort the communist thought reform prisons practiced.

Of course this isn't the topic.

Every topic is hijacked by the child torturer and turned into a question of "does abuse happen" "can you really call that abuse"

Doesn’t this qualify as spamming? Can't the child torturer be banned?


What is the name of the place you went to?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2007, 05:46:59 PM »
It was called Straight Inc. by The Sea:

http://fornits.com/SIBS
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #63 on: December 15, 2007, 06:18:32 PM »
so, what's your point?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #64 on: December 15, 2007, 06:48:35 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
so, what's your point?


The one at the end of my longsword.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2007, 07:58:24 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
programs in general were worse back then
They continue to improve is many peoples point.  So we shouldn’t be using examples from 10 to 30 years ago to define todays schools.
there are schools which are worse now....like TB or casa by the sea, or the numerous "boot camps" just across the border in mexico.

Quote
Quote
2 : to subject to confinement
I agree with this.  This could also mean confined to ones bedroom for a week or being grounded.  But people typically don’t call it incarcerated.  I think the terminology is a little off.
There is a differenece between grounding and being shipped off to a faraway place that you physically cannot leave. When one is grounded, they may still leave the house, and although the consequences may be severe from your parents, they will not involve the millitary hellicopters, search dogs, the risk of death due to exposure, or arrest due to not having an ID or running away. Also, you are forgetting how many kids are COURT ORDERED to programs. yes, they use helicopters. At HLA, they used their connections and proximity to the ranger base for help with finding runaways. and if the cops saw you, they arrested you and took you back, regardless of how legal it is to do so.

Quote
Quote
of course in most "traditional" boarding schools a majority of students are "warehoused"
So warehoused means having a bunch of kids together in one place.  They could be warehoused at school or at summer camp, or warehoused in a wilderness program or church group, warehoused at a local high school for the day.
So warehousing doesn’t seem to be an issue but the length of time does.

The parents intentions, distance from home, freedom within the warehouse, the child's willingness to go, ability to leave, along with the length of time are all factors which determine warehousing and the degree of incarceration.

It's possible to have kids which are technically "warehoused" in the same institution with kids who are there for other reasons.

one must go to school. there is no way around it, and choosing not to home school a child is even preferable. sending a child away becouse you dont want to deal with them, and want to be able to spend more time bangin your new husband/wife, or if you are simply unable to get control over your kids, are all intentions which seperate a kid going to a boarding school or summer camp, or tbs, (under which they fall into the "warehoused" category), from the kids that go to boarding school for the education and kids that enjoy summer camp.


stress positions are considered a form of torture. anyone going to deny the use of stress positions in tbs's?


I was tortured recently at a place that had been open for 30 years, and was shut down not long after I left. The place practiced systematic torture of the sort the communist thought reform prisons practiced.

Of course this isn't the topic.

Every topic is hijacked by the child torturer and turned into a question of "does abuse happen" "can you really call that abuse"

Doesn’t this qualify as spamming? Can't the child torturer be banned?

What is the name of the place you went to?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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level of education attained by program parents and...
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2007, 08:08:31 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
so, what's your point?

The one at the end of my longsword.

Arrr.. where be me cutlass?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Botched Programming

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« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2007, 11:33:22 AM »
Quote from: ""Botched Programming""
So you do admit that abuse still happens in todays time in programs then????


Hey Who...... I did not see a response to this question. You replied on all my other post.

Are you scared to answer this question????
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Botched Programming

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« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2007, 01:27:49 PM »
Quote from: ""Botched Programming""
Quote from: ""Botched Programming""
So you do admit that abuse still happens in todays time in programs then????

Hey Who...... I did not see a response to this question. You replied on all my other post.

Are you scared to answer this question????


Who.....We are still awaiting your reply!!!!!![/color]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2007, 01:36:05 PM »
Quote from: ""Botched Programming""
Quote from: ""Botched Programming""
Quote from: ""Botched Programming""
So you do admit that abuse still happens in todays time in programs then????

Hey Who...... I did not see a response to this question. You replied on all my other post.

Are you scared to answer this question????

Who.....We are still awaiting your reply!!!!!![/color]


I believe abuse happens everywhere kids are likely to go.  This includes our school systems, summer camp, church, home environment and programs.  I think what we need to look at is where the abuse occurs and decide if it is systemic or not.  Any institution is going to hire the wrong person eventually and that person will do harm.
One of the keys is to look at the schools hiring practices and the pool of people they hire from and bounce this off of any screening process that they have documented which could weed out any potential abusive employees.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2007, 02:37:04 PM »
the who, your failure to think of, mention, or take intrest in the following point indicates your participation in the industry.

the point..
what needs to be looked at is what kind of environment, conditions, rules, and other factors are more likely to generate staff-student abuse/sadism/powertripping and ALSO student-student abuse.

true, certain people are more likely to abuse kids than others. unfortunately, it's pretty hard to screen out who will participate in a abuse in any given situation. please refer to the stanford prison experiment (for the xthousanth time).  No you cant use your data for this, because if the programs were surveyed, the data would be biased, and experiments would involve too many resources, and would never get funding. It must be done by a panel of knoweldgeable psychiatrists, psychologists, historians and philosophers. Most people have the common sense to know that for example, "disclosure therapy", is more damaging than helpfull. you just dont have the moral fibre to understand that prolonged emotional abuse is equal or paramount to actual physical abuse. your statistics dont mean shit when it comes down to emotional abuse.

eliminating child abuse, as with anything, is impossible. what is possible is decreasing the probability of such an occurence. programs have a very very high probability of abuse. there are no official, acurate stats on what kind  of and how much abuse happens in, say, prison. but everyone knows that if you go to prison, you risk getting raped, beaten, killed, joining a gang for life, etc. everyone knows it's the prison environment - not all that different from a program environment. likewise, everyone knows that programs are abusive, just not on the same level. it's common sense that you are more likely to emotionally or physically abused in a program than in summer camp, because the environment, rules, ideology, kids, and activities generate a lesser probability of abuse happening.  

if you take a deep look into this, and dig deep into your heart for that one little grain of compassion you may have buried in there.....you'll realize that nearly all of these programs perpetuate abuse on every level. screening out people with records and drug testing aint gonna do jack shit.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2007, 03:03:10 PM »
Quote
the who, your failure to think of, mention, or take intrest in the following point indicates your participation in the industry.

the point..
what needs to be looked at is what kind of environment, conditions, rules, and other factors are more likely to generate staff-student abuse/sadism/powertripping and ALSO student-student abuse.

true, certain people are more likely to abuse kids than others. unfortunately, it's pretty hard to screen out who will participate in a abuse in any given situation. please refer to the stanford prison experiment (for the xthousanth time).
Look I have responded to this many times.  Even the people running the experiment admitted it was flawed because the guards felt like they needed to play a part or act like guards did in the movies.  They carried sticks and put on mirrored glasses.  The in mates felt they should organize or strike, which they did, because they felt this would be what would be expected…etc.  it wasn’t conclusive.

Quote
No you cant use your data for this, because if the programs were surveyed, the data would be biased, and experiments would involve too many resources, and would never get funding. It must be done by a panel of knoweldgeable psychiatrists, psychologists, historians and philosophers. Most people have the common sense to know that for example, "disclosure therapy", is more damaging than helpfull. you just dont have the moral fibre to understand that prolonged emotional abuse is equal or paramount to actual physical abuse. your statistics dont mean shit when it comes down to emotional abuse.
I agree, you get no argument from me,  but I am not tracking emotional abuse.  There is no data available and even if there was it isn’t tracked in the public sector so there would be nothing to compare it to.

Quote
eliminating child abuse, as with anything, is impossible. what is possible is decreasing the probability of such an occurence. programs have a very very high probability of abuse. there are no official, acurate stats on what kind of and how much abuse happens in, say, prison. but everyone knows that if you go to prison, you risk getting raped, beaten, killed, joining a gang for life, etc. everyone knows it's the prison environment - not all that different from a program environment. likewise, everyone knows that programs are abusive, just not on the same level. it's common sense that you are more likely to emotionally or physically abused in a program than in summer camp, because the environment, rules, ideology, kids, and activities generate a lesser probability of abuse happening. if you take a deep look into this, and dig deep into your heart for that one little grain of compassion you may have buried in there.....you'll realize that nearly all of these programs perpetuate abuse on every level. screening out people with records and drug testing aint gonna do jack shit.


Your thinking is flawed, because in a prison environment the guards (for the most part) are not pursuing a career in helping kids or careers in mental health (and for the reasons I stated above).  Almost all the staff who left the program (where my daughter attended) were going back to school to further their education (masters) in the mental health field.  The people in the mental health field are not very likely to abuse kids.  So this environment would be safer than any public school setting.
Prisons are designed to keep bad people from getting back into society.  TBS’s are designed to get kids back on track, keep them safe…etc.  There is a huge difference.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2007, 03:10:54 PM »
Quote from: "TheWhore"
Quote
The people in the mental health field are not very likely to abuse kids. So this environment would be safer than any public school setting.


Where did you get this disinformation from?  Child abuse cross-cuts every segment of society, from teachers to cops to mental health professionals to professional athletes.  

One thing you neglected to mention is that child abusers very often seek out positions where they can control and abuse their victims.  To a child abuser, there is NO BETTER PLACE than a "TBS" to find plentiful victims who can't report the abuse or won't be believed.[/u]

What you're saying above is like saying "Church is safe because priests wouldn't harm children."  We all know THAT's a crock of shit, just like your mangled inductive reasoning.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2007, 03:36:58 PM »
Quote
Child abuse cross-cuts every segment of society, from teachers to cops to mental health professionals to professional athletes.
I already stated that.. here:
I believe abuse happens everywhere kids are likely to go. This includes our school systems, summer camp, church, home environment and programs. I think what we need to look at is where the abuse occurs and decide if it is systemic or not. Any institution is going to hire the wrong person eventually and that person will do harm.
One of the keys is to look at the schools hiring practices and the pool of people they hire from and bounce this off of any screening process that they have documented which could weed out any potential abusive employees.


http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=301246#301246

Quote
One thing you neglected to mention is that child abusers very often seek out positions where they can control and abuse their victims. To a child abuser, there is NO BETTER PLACE than a "TBS" to find plentiful victims who can't report the abuse or won't be believed.

 Day care settings, church youth groups, schools, boarding schools, mental health facilities.....  Child abusers will go where the kids are and TBS’s are no different.  But TBS’s,I believe, they are safer because of the employees that they attract.
Quote
What you're saying above is like saying "Church is safe because priests wouldn't harm children." We all know THAT's a crock of shit, just like your mangled inductive reasoning.


No, I am not, I am saying TBS’s are safer than Prison and the public sector school systems.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #74 on: December 17, 2007, 03:45:39 PM »
Based on what?  And you still fail to see the point.  Child abusers will be MORE HIGHLY CONCENTRATED in TBS's because they can ply their trade and get away with it.  It's simple.  There's just no way for victims to respond to the abuse.  You think CM's don't KNOW this?  If so, you're dumber than I originally thought.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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