level of education attained by program parents and...

[TheWho]

programs in general were worse back then

They continue to improve is many peoples point.  So we shouldn’t be using examples from 10 to 30 years ago to define todays schools.

2 : to subject to confinement

I agree with this.  This could also mean confined to ones bedroom for a week or being grounded.  But people typically don’t call it incarcerated.  I think the terminology is a little off.

of course in most "traditional" boarding schools a majority of students are "warehoused"

So warehoused means having a bunch of kids together in one place.  They could be warehoused at school or at summer camp, or warehoused in a wilderness program or church group, warehoused at a local high school for the day.
So warehousing doesn’t seem to be an issue but the length of time does.

[Anonymous]

:roll:

WE NEED TO COMPARE MONTHS OF TORTURE TO ORDINARY CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES AGAIN

PEOPLE AREN'T LISTENING TO THEWHO ANYMORE

OK LETS DO IT ANONYMOUSLY

And what the hell do you mean that they were worse in the '50s? There were no fucking programs in the '50s! There were abusive reform schools and orphanages, to be sure, but the advent of using pseudo-psychological cult techniques on children didn't happen until Synanon.

[Anonymous]

but the advent of using pseudo-psychological cult techniques on children didn't happen until Synanon.

Self-correction: I meant in the secular sense. Religious groups have been doing this since at least a few hundred years after Christ.

[TheWho]

:roll:

WE NEED TO COMPARE MONTHS OF TORTURE TO ORDINARY CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES AGAIN

PEOPLE AREN'T LISTENING TO THEWHO ANYMORE

OK LETS DO IT ANONYMOUSLY

And what the hell do you mean that they were worse in the '50s? There were no fucking programs in the '50s! There were abusive reform schools and orphanages, to be sure, but the advent of using pseudo-psychological cult techniques on children didn't happen until Synanon.

Dont be so harsh on the guy.  I believe what the poster was trying to say was that it was alot worse back then.  You cant compare abusive reform schools to the TBS of today.

As far as torture goes, I think most people would require a little bit of proof before they would believe that one.



...

[Anonymous]

Funny.  TheWho writes the post anonymously and then says "Take it easy on the guy..."  At least four posts of the last ten are TheWho posting anonymously.  Sheesh.

[Anonymous]

To return to the original topic:

The amount of education received by program parents has only one value:

NOT ENOUGH.

Otherwise they wouldn't be program parents.

QED!

[Botched Programming]

Dont be so harsh on the guy.  I believe what the poster was trying to say was that it was alot worse back then.  You cant compare abusive reform schools to the TBS of today.

As far as torture goes, I think most people would require a little bit of proof before they would believe that one.



...

Hold on a minute....[/color]

Who, the way you are trying to present this is like it happened centuries ago. Fact being Straight Inc did not shut down until the late 80's and there have been many copy cat programs that used the same model and methods that Synanon, Straight, Seed, Kids Helping Kids, Growing Together (Which this one just recently has closed or so they say within the last 2 years). So it is not even like it has been decades ago.

The fact remains that there are programs out there that operate using the same abusive "Behavorial Modification" techniques as the forementioned programs.

And the fact remains that they still use manipulation tactics on the parents as well as the kids.

So please advise parents of the truth.....

[TheWho]

Dont be so harsh on the guy.  I believe what the poster was trying to say was that it was alot worse back then.  You cant compare abusive reform schools to the TBS of today.

As far as torture goes, I think most people would require a little bit of proof before they would believe that one.



...

Hold on a minute....[/color]

Who, the way you are trying to present this is like it happened centuries ago. Fact being Straight Inc did not shut down until the late 80's and there have been many copy cat programs that used the same model and methods that Synanon, Straight, Seed, Kids Helping Kids, Growing Together (Which this one just recently has closed or so they say within the last 2 years). So it is not even like it has been decades ago.

The fact remains that there are programs out there that operate using the same abusive "Behavorial Modification" techniques as the forementioned programs.

And the fact remains that they still use manipulation tactics on the parents as well as the kids.

So please advise parents of the truth.....

All programs use "Behavior Modification".  Every school in America, every sports team use it.  What we are trying to separate out is the abusive programs of the past.



...

[Botched Programming]

All programs use "Behavior Modification".  Every school in America, every sports team use it.  What we are trying to separate out is the abusive programs of the past.



...

How far back are you considering the past to be??

Take a minute to read this article and see what the date is on this. After this happened it still took a while for them to close or relocate under a different name.

So here is a little proof that abuse is not acient history.

http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2004-12 ... -together/

[TheWho]

All programs use "Behavior Modification".  Every school in America, every sports team use it.  What we are trying to separate out is the abusive programs of the past.



...

How far back are you considering the past to be??

Take a minute to read this article and see what the date is on this. After this happened it still took a while for them to close or relocate under a different name.

So here is a little proof that abuse is not acient history.

http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2004-12 ... -together/

Thats the kind of stuff I am talking about.  We need to shut those places down and put them out of business.  Many here at fornits spend their time moaning about programs not allowing kids to have a cell phone or being forced to clean the hallway or own rooms and calling this abusive.

I dont know why people dont put their effort towards the programs which are abusing kids.


...

[Botched Programming]

So you do admit that abuse still happens in todays time in programs then?

[Oz girl]

"What it takes to pull me through" is a hopelessly sanitized puff piece.

The only place that anyone, ever, talks about what really goes on are sites like Anti-WWASP, ISAC, The .info Network, and Fornits.

Look at how pathetic this guy is. Just LOOK at it. He's talking to people who have actually been there and keeps going "No, no, no, here's what you're supposed to believe!" anyway.

It's like he thinks he can outweigh all of Fornits if he keeps spouting enough bullshit.

Uh, no. The only people interested in revealing the truth are Fornits members and their kin, the only reason the programs aren't shrouded in secrecy are because of sites like this one, and despite how much time you put into it, no one will go back to believing bullshit after having seen reality. You lose; get the fuck out.

I would agree that it was vehemently pro program in that he sure brought the tough love philosophy but it was also illuminating if you looked at it with any clarity. I do not know if the who actually read it before he recommended it. The fact that he was supposed to be following a group of the schools best and brightest, its rehab superstars says it all as from this "successful" group
-A girl whos dad sent her to prevent teen pregnancy got pregnant in her first yr of university
-A girl whos suicidal tendencies were ignored in favour of a disturbing public humiliation threw herself in front of a bus and ended up in a mental hospital
-A boy who was sent for drug rehab overdosed and nearly died
-Another boy did die of alcohol poisoning in his first yr of university

Of these kids who were apparently so succesful they were tagged the guru group there was a 30% failure rate immediately after the kids left school. The idealistic young teacher who left after a single yr said the only thing she loved about ASR was the kids. I wonder how bad it was for the rest of the school.

Getting back to the topic of parents, I wonder if it really matters what level of education there is. Perhaps the question is what they thought they would get out of it or what they were sold? Peace? a break from a kid they are struggling to cope with? help for their kid?vengeance? It could be any number of things.

[Botched Programming]

One last thing before I log off........

Why are these programs not listed in the wonderful matrix with the stats???

This article talked of abuse, attempted suicides, etc. the same info you post.

http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2004-12 ... -together/

[TheWho]

One last thing before I log off........

Why are these programs not listed in the wonderful matrix with the stats???

This article talked of abuse, attempted suicides, etc. the same info you post.

http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2004-12 ... -together/

No the matrix covers the same information the NCES collects...suicides and Homicides

[Anonymous]

programs in general were worse back then

They continue to improve is many peoples point.  So we shouldn’t be using examples from 10 to 30 years ago to define todays schools.

there are schools which are worse now....like TB or casa by the sea, or the numerous "boot camps" just across the border in mexico.

2 : to subject to confinement

I agree with this.  This could also mean confined to ones bedroom for a week or being grounded.  But people typically don’t call it incarcerated.  I think the terminology is a little off.

There is a differenece between grounding and being shipped off to a faraway place that you physically cannot leave. When one is grounded, they may still leave the house, and although the consequences may be severe from your parents, they will not involve the millitary hellicopters, search dogs, the risk of death due to exposure, or arrest due to not having an ID or running away. Also, you are forgetting how many kids are COURT ORDERED to programs. yes, they use helicopters. At HLA, they used their connections and proximity to the ranger base for help with finding runaways. and if the cops saw you, they arrested you and took you back, regardless of how legal it is to do so.

of course in most "traditional" boarding schools a majority of students are "warehoused"

So warehoused means having a bunch of kids together in one place.  They could be warehoused at school or at summer camp, or warehoused in a wilderness program or church group, warehoused at a local high school for the day.
So warehousing doesn’t seem to be an issue but the length of time does.

The parents intentions, distance from home, freedom within the warehouse, the child's willingness to go, ability to leave, along with the length of time are all factors which determine warehousing and the degree of incarceration.

It's possible to have kids which are technically "warehoused" in the same institution with kids who are there for other reasons.

one must go to school. there is no way around it, and choosing not to home school a child is even preferable. sending a child away becouse you dont want to deal with them, and want to be able to spend more time bangin your new husband/wife, or if you are simply unable to get control over your kids, are all intentions which seperate a kid going to a boarding school or summer camp, or tbs, (under which they fall into the "warehoused" category), from the kids that go to boarding school for the education and kids that enjoy summer camp.


stress positions are considered a form of torture. anyone going to deny the use of stress positions in tbs's?