Heritage RTC in Provo

[Nihilanthic]

And this is why Niles will never leave Florida like he wants. Because he is wasting his time on me, and the Who (sorry, I almost forgot to mention you!)!!!!

This in response to...

Do they keep kids without problems there anyway against their will?

Do they isolate ANYONE from the outside world, or legal representation?

Do they only hold people there captive who have a medical need to be?

LGATs? Restraints? Levels?

Sorry, I don't care if its Hogwarts, but those things can't be justified anywhere, even if they give everyone hookers and blow at the end of the day.

Now, she's completely dodging my attempts to find some actual information a get a valid question responded to, and then throwing in an ad-hominem attack to both try to discredit me to others and try to psychologically attack me.

AND she tries to call in TheWho to help her?

 :rofl:

Sorry but spending a minute of my time to try to illustrate what a "programmie" is and how they act and try to evade questions, manipulate facts and communication, for the help of a LOT of other people is definitely not a waste of time nor is it impeding on any of my goals.

So, again, why exactly is denying children due process, holding those without problems in the program anyway, using a level system, LGATs, or restraints as punishment, or simply asking about them in the context of a program you give your approval of spewing hate and "Wasting time so I won't achieve my goals"?

Seriously, just because YOU were a bad child and in a program that was not as bad as wwasps, does not mean it is good (nor, that it isn't, which is what I am trying to find out...) nor does it justify that program which was "Good" to you while you were "Bad" keeping kids there without due process or who don't need to be there at all.

Now, I'm sure you'll just try to shit all over this too...

[TheWho]

No one is beating you up Niles, relax.  I dont think CCM was refering to those questions when she mentioned your hatred....did you just get out of church?

Here is your typical response/post:

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=284452#284452

You spread racial slurs all over the board, everytime you visit and thats what you do, be honest with yourself.  Dont try to pretend you are part of some debate club by posing someone elses questions.

Now get back to your on-line poker, leave the discussing to us.  Hey!!  Dont give me that look again.

[Nihilanthic]

Exactly right. I called Sue a Jew on Encyclopedia Dramatica!

www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Sue_Scheff

Its called "satire".

Nowhere in that thread did I use any racially offensive term, though. At any rate, "nigger" isn't even racist, technically. It is offensive.

rac•ism

Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Hrm.

nig·ger

Pronunciation: 'ni-g&r
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of earlier neger, from Middle French negre, from Spanish or Portuguese negro, from negro black, from Latin niger
1 usually offensive; see usage paragraph below : a black person
2 usually offensive; see usage paragraph below : a member of any dark-skinned race
3 : a member of a socially disadvantaged class of persons

Ginger says "Teens are the current niggers". Is she racist?

No.

Anyway, given the current bedfellows of PMSgirl and TheBumblefuck, I now bring you back to your regularly scheduled trolling in lieu of answering a simple question about if PMSGirl's program kept kids there who didn't need help anyway!

 

[lorrispickelmire]

I read all of these links and it makes me sad, and more than that it makes me angry.  While we as survivors are fighting amongst each other a whole new generation of kids is being abused, mentally and physically, young mothers are having their babies taken away from them forcibly, and 20 years from now, this generation will be sitting around dealing with manic depression, insomnia, etc. because the memories are just too damn painful.  OR, here is a novel idea, we put on our Big Boy and Big Girl panties and discuss this crap like adults and come up with a solution.  Anybody want to play that game for a while?

[Nihilanthic]

Fine with me.

So, CCMgirl, does your approved program keep kids without due process or those who clearly do not need any "help"?

[lorrispickelmire]

How many teens do you know that wake up any given morning and say I want to leave everything familiar to me, and go somewhere were strangers are going to control my every waking moment?  Of course they are there against their wills, but that goes back to this countries idea that children are property.  You don't need their consent in this country to hold them under lock and key, they don't have rights to freedom of speach or religion or anything else.  Animals have more rights and protections in this country than children do.

[Nihilanthic]

There ARE cases where people need to be kept in a actual treatment facility when unstable against their will.

Obviously, what fornits calls a "program" or "duck farm" (quackery and warehousing...) is no such place.

At any rate, I do wish CCMGirl would clarify whether or not her earmarked program kept kids who clearly didn't need it, or if they had actual due process and not just an edcon's approval.

[CCM girl 1989]

Fine with me.

So, CCMgirl, does your approved program keep kids without due process or those who clearly do not need any "help"?

In regards to Heritage, the kids are evaluated on a daily basis by staff members in their end of shift logs, which are then given to the therapists of these children, for them to review. That makes it so when the therapist meets with the child they are not only talking about their past problems at home, but the problems they are having in the program.

As far as before they go in, sometimes the school is going on the parents word, that their child needs help, and not by the courts ruling. Sometimes that is due to the fact that, the parents are trying to nip the problem in the bud before it gets the juvenile system, and gets extremely messy.

So, I guess that you could say that there are kids that have not been ordered by the court, or by another governing type of agency, to be placed there.

But, I would have to say, that all the kids I came across there needed some type of therapy, or treatment, and benefited from it. You are trying to group this school in with some of the schools that are very well known to be abusive. I'm not going to let that happen. Parents need to have safe places to send their kids, to get the help that they need.

You just want to let kids run wild, and if it kills people, or hurts the public, who cares?!! Not to mention hurting themselves.

[mamala]

most of their clients are from california on an iep driven placement to a nps that has to be certified by the state and have a master contract with the appropriate selpa. they are not court ordered. those children are monitored by several agencies as well as their parents. a small amount of short termers are utah juvenile justice cases. those children always have a lawyer and due process. under all of those circumstances, there is due process and facility licensing and oversight. not to say that they are not idiots in some or many capacities, all mormons with a sheltered and ignorant view and knowledge of everything possible and the standard of ALL their care is lower than a lot of professionals that are not employed by institutions.

i think you guys are talking about the for profit places, who may not be licensed, where the real abuse is going on.

[Che Gookin]

not to say that they are not idiots in some or many capacities, all mormons with a sheltered and ignorant view and knowledge of everything possible and the standard of ALL their care is lower than a lot of professionals that are not employed by institutions.

i think you guys are talking about the for profit places, who may not be licensed, where the real abuse is going on.

Correction maám.... Abuse can happen just as easily in a licensed facility as it can an unlicensed facility.

Kids have died in licensed facilities.
Kids have been beaten in licensed facilities.
Kids have been mentally abused in licensed facilities.

As to the bolded portion of your above quote could you please elaborate on what makes the staff of Heritage providers of lower quality care?

[mamala]

it could, but it doesn't.

the low quality of care, based on malpractice law standard of care, involves failing to read charts, prescribing controlled substances without regard to hx, failing to provide state of the art or even good diagnostic critieria and methods psychiatricaly, pharmacologically, educationally, medically, therapeutically. failure to regard individual or even have average knowledge of any culture, religion other than mormon. violation of religion and disability civil rights. inexperienced therapist, administration and teachers who have no knowledge of sped law, techniques, methods, strategies, implementations, assessments etc. either therapeutically or academically. inadequate staff (not a single medical psychiatrist or even psychologist) with inadequate education and training who have no knowledge of appropriate therapeutic care, treatment and case management.

want more?

[Anonymous]

In a long-winded way, I think your answer to Niles' question was "yes."

Fine with me.

So, CCMgirl, does your approved program keep kids without due process or those who clearly do not need any "help"?

In regards to Heritage, the kids are evaluated on a daily basis by staff members in their end of shift logs, which are then given to the therapists of these children, for them to review. That makes it so when the therapist meets with the child they are not only talking about their past problems at home, but the problems they are having in the program.

As far as before they go in, sometimes the school is going on the parents word, that their child needs help, and not by the courts ruling. Sometimes that is due to the fact that, the parents are trying to nip the problem in the bud before it gets the juvenile system, and gets extremely messy.

So, I guess that you could say that there are kids that have not been ordered by the court, or by another governing type of agency, to be placed there.

But, I would have to say, that all the kids I came across there needed some type of therapy, or treatment, and benefited from it. You are trying to group this school in with some of the schools that are very well known to be abusive. I'm not going to let that happen. Parents need to have safe places to send their kids, to get the help that they need.

You just want to let kids run wild, and if it kills people, or hurts the public, who cares?!! Not to mention hurting themselves.

[Nihilanthic]

In a long-winded way, I think your answer to Niles' question was "yes."

Fine with me.

So, CCMgirl, does your approved program keep kids without due process or those who clearly do not need any "help"?

In regards to Heritage, the kids are evaluated on a daily basis by staff members in their end of shift logs, which are then given to the therapists of these children, for them to review. That makes it so when the therapist meets with the child they are not only talking about their past problems at home, but the problems they are having in the program.

As far as before they go in, sometimes the school is going on the parents word, that their child needs help, and not by the courts ruling. Sometimes that is due to the fact that, the parents are trying to nip the problem in the bud before it gets the juvenile system, and gets extremely messy.

So, I guess that you could say that there are kids that have not been ordered by the court, or by another governing type of agency, to be placed there.

But, I would have to say, that all the kids I came across there needed some type of therapy, or treatment, and benefited from it. You are trying to group this school in with some of the schools that are very well known to be abusive. I'm not going to let that happen. Parents need to have safe places to send their kids, to get the help that they need.

You just want to let kids run wild, and if it kills people, or hurts the public, who cares?!! Not to mention hurting themselves.

She sounds like a god damned program apologist.  :roll:

So does the therapist decide when they go home, OR IS THERE A LEVEL SYSTEM YES/NO? Yanno, the whole "fix problems that need captive fixing or send them home" concept of "ethical treatment"... *sigh*.

As far as before they go in, sometimes the school is going on the parents word, that their child needs help, and not by the courts ruling. Sometimes that is due to the fact that, the parents are trying to nip the problem in the bud before it gets the juvenile system, and gets extremely messy.

So you're going to ignore every single person who was thrown into a program because their parents wanted them to be thrown in, due to edcons fucking with thier heads, genuinely being mistaken, or simply wanting them gone, and not needing a REASON to keep them there?

Wow lets slap everyone in the fucking face who was unnecessarily put through a program becuase CCM Girl thinks its "nipping it in the bud". You sound like a STRAIGHTling saying if theyre not a druggie yet, they will be!

I also like how you basically skirted the whole "due process" question so well but basically admitted that there isn't any... and forewent answering the "level" question or what the criteria for release are!

But, I would have to say, that all the kids I came across there needed some type of therapy, or treatment, and benefited from it. You are trying to group this school in with some of the schools that are very well known to be abusive. I'm not going to let that happen. Parents need to have safe places to send their kids, to get the help that they need.

Now, think about this. You were a teenager. A program survivor. And a self-admitted "bad kid", but you approve of this program!Through rosy retrospection you're giving them an archaeo-diagnosis when you have no credentials to do so, no formal education at all, just your own program experience and the foregone conclusion that its a good program, so everyone there needed to be there, right?

I mean, never mind their rights being trampled, no due process, and nothing wrong with them except mommy and daddy think (possibly because an EdCon convinced them!) that the kid had to be there, they got something out of it, by golly, and years of isolation and solitude are A-OK and robbing years of their teens is now OK becuase CCM Girl in her infinite wisdom said they had something to get out of it and SOMEONE said they should be there, JUST incase.

Parents need to have safe places to send their kids, to get the help that they need.

Why not find out if they need any fucking help in the first place, and sometimes the help they need can't be found at a program? Ever consider that?

Regardless, just because mommy said so doesn't mean anybody but mommy needs some help. And for that matter, just because you say you think some kids need help, doesn't necessarily mean anyone but you does, CCMGirl.

[Anne Bonney]

As far as before they go in, sometimes the school is going on the parents word, that their child needs help, and not by the courts ruling. Sometimes that is due to the fact that, the parents are trying to nip the problem in the bud before it gets the juvenile system, and gets extremely messy.

THAT!!!   ^^^^^^^^^   That right there!!  You don't see the danger in that?  These kids are having their adolescence stolen from them for what they might do?   Heritage 'takes' kids based solely on the parents word?  No diagnosis?

But, I would have to say, that all the kids I came across there needed some type of therapy, or treatment, and benefited from it. You are trying to group this school in with some of the schools that are very well known to be abusive. I'm not going to let that happen. Parents need to have safe places to send their kids, to get the help that they need.

I'm not saying that Heritage is just like Straight or Tranquility Bay.  That doesn't mean its not dangerous and abusive.  You don't have to be smacked around to be abused or damaged.  You know that.

You just want to let kids run wild, and if it kills people, or hurts the public, who cares?!! Not to mention hurting themselves.

Yep.  Ya got me.  That's what I want.  Do you forget that quite a few of us survivors are also parents?  I've got two grown kids.  I know what its like to be scared senseless, believe me.  Programs are NOT the answer.

[TheWho]

Now, think about this. You were a teenager. A program survivor. And a self-admitted "bad kid", but you approve of this program!Through rosy retrospection you're giving them an archaeo-diagnosis when you have no credentials to do so, no formal education at all, just your own program experience and the foregone conclusion that its a good program, so everyone there needed to be there, right?

Now, think about this. You were a teenager. A program survivor. And felt you were a "good  kid", but you Disapprove of this program! Through tainted retrospection you're saying the school was ineffective when you have no credentials to do so, no formal education at all, just your own program experience and the foregone conclusion that its an abusive program, so no one  there needed to be there, right?



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