Another apology

[ZenAgent]

Let's make it simple:

NYRA is to CAFETY as PURE is to CAICA.

We all agree CAICA and Izzy are abominations, so why should CAFETY be viewed differently?  After all, Izzy still claims to be an advocate, despite defending the Whitmore and attacking parents.

You need to re-assess yourselves at CAFETY, I think you're in denial.  You can't see what's going on if your heads are stuck up your asses.

[Anonymous]

this forum is hosted by fornits

fornits links to amazon.com
 
if you search amazon.com for Mein Kampf you can buy it.

therefore this argument indirectly supports the rise of the fourth reich.

are you kidding me with that skewed logic?

link to link to link to link

if CAFETY denounces CACA and Izzy(which last time I checked they had quite some time ago)....and Alex stepped down....you all would find another reason to boycott them....because you don't like "the way" they say it.  


As for the HEAL argument....if people are going to question members of an organization for EVER working for an RTC....then I think there's members of this boycott that are just as dirty as those they are boycotting...no?

[Anonymous]

I think its very clear what the issue is.  NYRA links to CAICA.

I also think that CAFETY has had a whole lot of debate on the subject.  I will say that most of CAFETY does not agree with CAICA or PURE and does not want to be associated in any way.

Discussions are happening.  It takes a little time to figure out the best course of action.  Would it be nice if everyone could get together immediately and decide the best course of action? Sure. That can't happen due to people being spread around the country with various work schedules etc...

If you truly believe boycotting them will make a positive difference, then I applaud your sincerity. I hope it's not based on anything else.  You can be sure, though, that most of CAFETY holds your same view but will not act without thorough input and discussion.

[ZenAgent]

Are you aware of the decision making process that took place?

No.  It obviously wasn't well thought out.

Have you sent cafety an email asking for a reason behind the actions?

No.  I'd rather find out from someone I trust, like A START.

If the decision making process was explained to you, would you then feel more comfortable with the decision?

Would that change the fact it's wrong?

What I've been reading in these few threads is a sort of all or nothing approach.  See it my way, or we boycott.  I think that can lead to many more problems which need not arise.  Talking trash on Fornits is fun and all, but it seems more people than not are being accused without a good foundation being established first.   Do you really want to trash a whole group of dedicated individuals who you would probably get on with just fine in real life and share many of the same values, merely because of a link?

You contradict yourself.  You dismiss any dialog on Fornits as "trash", yet you do seem to take a boycott seriously, perhaps because of the number of registered users here, as opposed to the rather pitiful number on CAFETY.

We keep pointing out the foundation...you keep digging new holes.  And who the hell are you?

[nimdA]

Well get on it Blommie. The quicker you have this discussion the sooner I can change my sig.

[Anonymous]

Cafety could easily solve this matter by denouncing the child-for-profit referral industry and letting people know  they will not link to nor endorse any other organzation that tolerates this disgusting practice in any way, shape or form.

How hard is that?

[ZenAgent]

Cafety could easily solve this matter by denouncing the child-for-profit referral industry and letting people know  they will not link to nor endorse any other organzation that tolerates this disgusting practice in any way, shape or form.

How hard is that?

Exactly.  If CAFETY doesn't, why shouldn't they be listed on ISAC's watch list, alongside PURE and CAICA?

[nimdA]

Pretty damn hard apparently.

Blombro came up here on Fornits and stated that Alex's connection to Isabelle was public knowledge, and they didn't do much about it.

In fact it is also pretty well known that Alex was supporting Isabelle for a lot longer than a couple months.

CAFETY has had plenty of time to clean up their house.

Now all of the sudden it is boycott time and yall are squealing and whining?

Bullshit.. You've all had months, and that is plenty of time to deal with the problem.

Apparently you all have had the balls to do it is what the problem seems to be.

[Anonymous]

Cafety could easily solve this matter by denouncing the child-for-profit referral industry and letting people know  they will not link to nor endorse any other organzation that tolerates this disgusting practice in any way, shape or form.

How hard is that?

Cafety has....the only thing that is even still at issue is the connection to another organization that links to another.....and the connection of the chairman of that organization on cafety's board.

the fact that it hasn't happened in a couple days....since people have work schedules to accomodate doesn't mean the issue won't be dealt with further.  

calm down and stop jumping to conclusions that have no merit. If no solution is made, or if when a decision is made you still disagree, then do what you want....but merely attacking people that up until recently you had respect for in many regards is just plain stupid.

[Anonymous]

Zen Agent:

Guest wrote:

Are you aware of the decision making process that took place?


No. It obviously wasn't well thought out.

Guest wrote:
Have you sent cafety an email asking for a reason behind the actions?


No. I'd rather find out from someone I trust, like A START.

Guest wrote:
If the decision making process was explained to you, would you then feel more comfortable with the decision?


Would that change the fact it's wrong?

Guest wrote:
What I've been reading in these few threads is a sort of all or nothing approach. See it my way, or we boycott. I think that can lead to many more problems which need not arise. Talking trash on Fornits is fun and all, but it seems more people than not are being accused without a good foundation being established first. Do you really want to trash a whole group of dedicated individuals who you would probably get on with just fine in real life and share many of the same values, merely because of a link?


You contradict yourself. You dismiss any dialog on Fornits as "trash", yet you do seem to take a boycott seriously, perhaps because of the number of registered users here, as opposed to the rather pitiful number on CAFETY.

We keep pointing out the foundation...you keep digging new holes. And who the hell are you?

I would suggest that you talk to them about their decision making process if you are truly concerned enough to boycott them.

You say you don't think the decision making process was well thought out, yet you have no idea what it was/is.  How's that work? You don't even know if it's over yet.  Is this boycott because CAFETY doesn't work fast enough for you?

You haven't asked cafety why they are doing what they are doing, yet you take the word from organizations like HEAL and random people on Fornits? Something is wrong with that. It's always best to get word first hand before you jump to conclusions.

I did not dismiss any dialog on fornits as trash, I said quote "Talking trash on Fornits is fun and all..." which was intended to the people talking trash...on fornits... I did not say everyone on fornits talks trash.  Please do not mince my words.

[nimdA]

Cafety could easily solve this matter by denouncing the child-for-profit referral industry and letting people know  they will not link to nor endorse any other organzation that tolerates this disgusting practice in any way, shape or form.

How hard is that?

Cafety has....the only thing that is even still at issue is the connection to another organization that links to another.....and the connection of the chairman of that organization on cafety's board.

the fact that it hasn't happened in a couple days....since people have work schedules to accomodate doesn't mean the issue won't be dealt with further.  

calm down and stop jumping to conclusions that have no merit. If no solution is made, or if when a decision is made you still disagree, then do what you want....but merely attacking people that up until recently you had respect for in many regards is just plain stupid.

Actually I haven't had much respect for CAFETY with their foot dragging over the Kevin August episode.

And this has been ongoing for months, NOT just a couple of days.

Nice try, better luck next time.

[Anonymous]

TS Waygookin

Now all of the sudden it is boycott time and yall are squealing and whining?

Bullshit.. You've all had months, and that is plenty of time to deal with the problem.

Apparently you all have had the balls to do it is what the problem seems to be.

I'm pretty sure this boycott has no bearing on CAFETY.  Clearing things up is my motivation for this, not some boycott by a few members on fornits.  I appreciate the activist spirit, but CAFETY does not function on donations through its website and it won't stop giving presentations and working to stop the abuse at the facilities.  It would be preferable that everyone understood the mission, but it is not necessary to placate every single person, especially if they are being a bit unreasonable.

[nimdA]

Well if it doesn't affect cafety at all why are you over here doing damage control?

[Anonymous]

Cafety could easily solve this matter by denouncing the child-for-profit referral industry and letting people know  they will not link to nor endorse any other organzation that tolerates this disgusting practice in any way, shape or form.

How hard is that?

Cafety has....the only thing that is even still at issue is the connection to another organization that links to another.....and the connection of the chairman of that organization on cafety's board.

the fact that it hasn't happened in a couple days....since people have work schedules to accomodate doesn't mean the issue won't be dealt with further.  

calm down and stop jumping to conclusions that have no merit. If no solution is made, or if when a decision is made you still disagree, then do what you want....but merely attacking people that up until recently you had respect for in many regards is just plain stupid.

Actually I haven't had much respect for CAFETY with their foot dragging over the Kevin August episode.

And this has been ongoing for months, NOT just a couple of days.

Nice try, better luck next time.

While I could be wrong, was it not many of the same people you're actually bashing that were on the same offensive with you on the Kevin August issue....ultimately getting the change that was wanted?  Maybe some direct communication with those same people would have been the way to start....I'm sure you have their email's rather than expect them to follow each forum rant......might be a faster way to get whatever point you want addressed taken to the board meetings.

Again though...that would involve more than just shit slinging. Might actually be productive...wouldn't want that right?

[Anonymous]

Well if it doesn't affect cafety at all why are you over here doing damage control?

I answered that before you asked it... in case you missed it:

Clearing things up is my motivation for this, not some boycott by a few members on fornits

It should also be known that the many people are of the view that people like Kevin (in the anti-wwasp case) are not inherently wrong, just possibly misguided at the time or made a poor decision.  It is in the community's best interest to allow for the person to fix their own issues.  In Anti-Wwasp's case, that's exactly what happened. Kevin apologized to everyone and stopped referring.  Give it a little time...