Inside the head of a shithead parent

[psy]

Cindy accept it, you've been owned. Continue to believe your own programmed delusion if you like but at the very least recognize you're the only one. Deborah provided the stats for the year you seem so fixated on, we've all given you numerous examples of kids who were killed in TBS's, and still you want to pretend it isnt so. If the subject matter wasn't so morbid it would almost be comical, you stomping your little feet trying desperatly to split hairs.

"Did the little bastard die on a thursday? Was he wearing a clown costume? Had he eaten pudding that day? If not then he wasn't murdered it was a preventable homicide"

You're no different then the sick fucks who kill these kids, claiming things like "sickle cell" or "excitable heart syndrome".

Continue to delude yourself for our amusement if you like but you've lost, accept that or move on. Either way parents will now see one more reason why they shouldnt send their kids to these dangerous places.

Thanks for bring this topic to the forefront Cindy. You've been a big help.

You are welcome!!!

Well Thanks for your contribution, Bob, I think, what did you contribute again?.  I can see I hit a nerve with all that dialog you gave us.  Did you ever find another data point for our data set like you mentioned?
Didn?t think so.........
Only kidding, the data speaks for itself, anyway, I think that is the point you missed.  I am just providing it for you.  Sorry if it hurts your perception of TBS's, though.

Hey lady.  I know a kid where i went who comitted suicide in program.  (that's not counting the many, many attempts)  That's one. And i know another one who did just after "graduation".  So somewhere you're perception of things is off.  I think most kids who went to program know at least one suicide.

Btw.  Why do you people continue to feed this troll.

[TheWho]

I don?t think many kids have much of an option until they turn 18, most kids will stay where they are unless they are being abused or feeling threatened or unsafe, in this case they would just pack up and leave, never look back, without any plan at all.

If most kids dont have a real option to leave till they are 18, then they are not free to go at any time at all. Thus they are living in a prison. it just does not have barbed wire fences.

Well I think it is like any place else, boarding school, living at home either way you dont have any otpions until you are 18,  I think it could be called a prison is you like.  But it goes for everyplace a kid is until he is of age.

[Charly]

OzGirl-  The same could be said by a teen living in the home. Many teens hate their parents and home life, but really can't live on their own so they stay.  In my view, if they stay in the home, they have to adhere to basic rules and show consideration for other family members.  Having to live at home due to lack of options isn't a whole lot different from being at a TBS where you theoretically can walk off, but where would you go?  A boy posted on the Carlbrook thread a long time ago (Ben Sturgess) who did just that- he walked off when he  turned 18, and admitted that Carlbrook was better than the life he had on his own at that point. He hated Carlbrook and found it worthless in his case, but it was a bed and walls at least, which was more than he had on his own.

[Charly]

Sorry, Who.  We cross-posted.

[RobertBruce]

You are welcome!!!

Well Thanks for your contribution, Bob, I think, what did you contribute again?. I can see I hit a nerve with all that dialog you gave us. Did you ever find another data point for our data set like you mentioned?
Didn?t think so.........
Only kidding, the data speaks for itself, anyway, I think that is the point you missed. I am just providing it for you. Sorry if it hurts your perception of TBS's, though.

*YAWN* Cindy you couldnt hit a nerve if it had a bullseye drawn on it. You seem to be familiar with the old addage "The truth hurts"? You've had the truth thrown at you many times, it would appear that we are the ones hitting the nerve with you. If you would just accept the way things are and the truth about things it would be much easier for and much less painfull. As to my data, I'm sorry you missed the multiple examples thrown at you already but we cannot make it any simplier for you. Maybe if we drew some pictures for you. Would that help? You are right about one thing though:

the data speaks for itself

That it does Cindy that it does. Hence why we were proven to be right and you were proven to be wrong. You seem to have forgotten your claim that no kids were murdered in TBS's. Are you going to claim that after the numerous examples provided to just today alone that your claim can still somehow stand? If so you really are dumber than I thought, and may want to see a nuerologist and a psychologist as soon as possible.

Now that the issue of kids being murdered in TBS's has been settled if you have a seperate point you'd like to bring up I'd be more than happy to embarr....err umm I mean discuss the matter with you.

Oh and....

Sorry if it hurts your perception of TBS's, though

Oh it didn't, in fact it only reinforced my perception that has apparently always been dead the fuck on. Honestly Cindy I had no idea how many kids had been murdered at these places until you came around. Thanks again sunshine.

[psy]

OzGirl-  The same could be said by a teen living in the home. Many teens hate their parents and home life, but really can't live on their own so they stay.  In my view, if they stay in the home, they have to adhere to basic rules and show consideration for other family members.

That's reasonable.  As long as the rules are reasonable.  For example:  If a parent decided that a daughter could not date anybody until the age of 25... that would be ... just begging for a pregnancy.

Having to live at home due to lack of options isn't a whole lot different from being at a TBS where you theoretically can walk off, but where would you go?  A boy posted on the Carlbrook thread a long time ago (Ben Sturgess) who did just that- he walked off when he  turned 18, and admitted that Carlbrook was better than the life he had on his own at that point. He hated Carlbrook and found it worthless in his case, but it was a bed and walls at least, which was more than he had on his own.

Yeah that happens. Living on the streets is no party... and program appears to provide a way out.  It's a mirage most of the time (unless you'd make a good sucess story)... but when you're cold and hungry it sounds allright.  especially since the (usually verbal/emotional) abuse becomes normal after a while.

[TheWho]

At least we agree,Bob, that the data speaks for itself and to date this what we have, if this proves your case great! :


Time frame:  July 1, 1999 thru June 2000  (52,000,000 students)

At School --- 21 school associated Deaths  (16  Homicides .00003%, 6 suicides .000012%)

Away from school  (2,124 Homicides 0.0041%, 1,922 Suicides 0.0037%)



And estimated a population of 30,000 kids.

So At TBS?s the results would be:

At School  ---   0 (0 Homicides, 0 suicide)

Away from School ? 1 (0 Homicides 0%, 1 Suicide 0.0033%)


So from a TBS vs National average the TBS?s had much lower rates of Suicides and Homicides for the same time period ?at school? and about the same ?away from school.?

[Anonymous]

I didn't intend to respond any more to this shit, but it's just so easy...

There are 30,000 kids at programs, Who. Not at TBSes. And you're totally forgetting the fact that TBSes send kids away to wilderness programs to be killed.

Time frame: July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 (52,000,000 students)

At School --- 21 school associated Deaths (16 Homicides .00003%, 6 suicides .000012%)

Away from school (2,124 Homicides 0.0041%, 1,922 Suicides 0.0037%)

And estimated a population of 30,000 kids.

So at programs the results would be:

At School --- 17 school associated Deaths (17 Homicides .056%, 0 suicides = 0%)

Away from School ? 1 (0 Homicides 0%, 1 Suicide 0.0033%)


So from a program vs National average the programs had much higher rates of Suicides and Homicides for the same time period ?at school? and about the same ?away from school?, even though programs never let the kids out.

[Anne Bonney]

This was just posted over on the Straight forum.  Maia's good.  She's got the parents pegged.

http://www.thesunmagazine.org/373_Szalavitz.pdf

[TheWho]

The battling data!!!!   My final offer!!!

Time frame: July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 (52,000,000 students)

At School --- 21 school associated Deaths (16 Homicides .00003%, 6 suicides .000012%)

Away from school (2,124 Homicides 0.0041%, 1,922 Suicides 0.0037%)



And estimated a population of 30,000 kids.

So At TBS?s the results would be:

At School --- 0 (0 Homicides, 0 suicide)

Away from School ? 1 (0 Homicides 0%, 1 Suicide 0.0033%)


So from a TBS vs National average the TBS?s had much lower rates of Suicides and Homicides for the same time period ?at school? and about the same ?away from school.?

[Anonymous]

program parents are out on full PR control trying to justify the unjustifiable... its obvious they arent trying to convince anyone here other than themselves.

[RobertBruce]

At least we agree,Bob, that the data speaks for itself and to date this what we have, if this proves your case great! :


Time frame:  July 1, 1999 thru June 2000  (52,000,000 students)

At School --- 21 school associated Deaths  (16  Homicides .00003%, 6 suicides .000012%)

Away from school  (2,124 Homicides 0.0041%, 1,922 Suicides 0.0037%)



And estimated a population of 30,000 kids.

So At TBS?s the results would be:

At School  ---   0 (0 Homicides, 0 suicide)

Away from School ? 1 (0 Homicides 0%, 1 Suicide 0.0033%)


So from a TBS vs National average the TBS?s had much lower rates of Suicides and Homicides for the same time period ?at school? and about the same ?away from school.?

Cindy Cindy Cindy youre like a child...a blind brain dead child but a child none the less. I've made it abundantly clear to you that the matter we are currently addressing dealt with your claim that no kids had ever been murdered at TBS's. If you need help with this just ask, there's really no shame. Now as it stands I and others have proven you wrong several times over, we've given you a number of examples of kids who were in fact murdered at TBS's. Again if you need help just ask.

This other matter you're so obsessed...from the look of things Deborah and Milk have effectivly shut you down on that matter as well. Since you've shown you hate to acknowledge when you've been proven wrong I'm wondering why youre even still pressing the issue. Afterall you've already lost.

[TheWho]

Sorry,Bob, I think I have been very clear with my position that homicide, suicide, rape and crime in general is going to happen anywhere where people and kids are, there are no exceptions.  If you have a post where I state otherwise let me see it and I will rescind it.

As for the data at hand, Deborah and I went thru this a year ago and came to an impasse on some deaths that occurred that were not classified as homicides but she felt they should have been included.  I thought a reasonable solution would be to create a category called ?Preventable Deaths? which may include restraints etc.
You may say you win, I win it doesn?t matter to me.  Data is data, if you want to include wilderness data , it can be expanded to include other types of schools also.  I only contend that the data I presented compares TBS to Public schools, that?s what we were working on and that?s what the data speaks to.

I am sorry if this upsets so many people, but we just cant fudge the data to please peoples agenda, you will lose credibility and the data will be useless.

[Anonymous]

click back 50 pages and you can't tell the diffenrece between this conversation and then. you are all going in circles.. and you think a parent is going to get this far in a thread? lol.. dont pretend you are having these discussions for the benefit of others.. it gets old.

[Oz girl]

OzGirl-  The same could be said by a teen living in the home. Many teens hate their parents and home life, but really can't live on their own so they stay.  In my view, if they stay in the home, they have to adhere to basic rules and show consideration for other family members.  Having to live at home due to lack of options isn't a whole lot different from being at a TBS where you theoretically can walk off, but where would you go?  A boy posted on the Carlbrook thread a long time ago (Ben Sturgess) who did just that- he walked off when he  turned 18, and admitted that Carlbrook was better than the life he had on his own at that point. He hated Carlbrook and found it worthless in his case, but it was a bed and walls at least, which was more than he had on his own.

And here is the thing. Most reasonable homes do not run like TBS. Because to take Carlbrook and ASR as examples the rules are in no way reasonable, simple and fair in the way that they are with most decent parents. They are often complex, odd and difficult for a  teen to follow. If the goal is to get a rebellious teen to understand that rules exist for the good of society, then it makes not sense to ban things like wholesome friendships which ASR has a documented history of doing. it makes no sense to ban reading and instead force a kid to book "appointments" with his peers every night where he is told what can and cant be discussed. It makes no sense to ban exercise when the kid is an athlete or force it to the point of exhaustion on a recovering drug addict. it certainly makes no sense to punish a kid and socially ostricise them when they leave a school with their parents permission because they are "letting the team down" as Carlbrook did to your son.