Cross Creek Manor WWASP -- Telling the Truth

[Anonymous]

As I understand it, they are punished for masterbating.

[Nihilanthic]

Ok, um... you realize what you just said?

"It's an evironment that is so intoxicating. It's easy to get caught up in the positivity and growing. However, once out of the program they don't have the same system. Because of that a lot of kids that haven't picked up the skills will fail. I've seen a lot of my peers fall flat on their face. I didn't due to the fact that I knew what I was up for. I knew I wasn't going to be monitered and graded. CCM was safe and I knew it. If I made a mistake the worst case scenario was dropping levels and starting over."

That really implies a lot of the things we're here and not liking, Perrigaud.

"Intoxicating environment" and "caught up in the positivity and growing" implies a lot about what we've heard about the seminars. Not the least of which is the manipulation (and brainwashing) that its accused of.

And.. busted back levels to 'start over' for not being perfectly compliant is unrealistic and coersive.

Finally that whole falling on their face in the real world becuase the program's unvierse is so differnet (if you fall for it instead of playing along to get out) is another problem.

All of this has still not been addressed! Why do you have to practically fall for the program like a religion for it to work? I dont need to believe in jack to go to a dentist.

For myself, I do not believe in any revelation. As for a future life, every man must judge for himself between conflicting vague probabilities.
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-01-13 10:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

"hi everyone,

I got a awkward question, maybe it isnt permissible, but I see the importance of that:

How do the kids in WWASP treatment handle their sexuality? Is there any privacy left for this? (I can't imagine they tolerate this in public.)

Sorry if you think that question better not to mention.

"

As far as I know, youre forced to make confessions about it because *EVERYONE* has apparently done something or entertained inappropriate fantasies. IF you dont have any, you make them up.

The sexes are apparently segregated on some level,  and its not a good idea to even look at the other sex.

And like the anon said, I've heard from a mom of a child who used to be in wwasps who found out that her child was punished for masturbating in private but being caught. That was when she pulled him out, if I remember correctly.

Basically in WWASPS its an exploited vulnerability and something thats not allowed to properly grow and develop, from what I've heard.

The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060007761/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Alexander Solzhenitsyn

[Anonymous]

According to program apologists, it's not allowed, and punished.
You can read their direct comments in this thread:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... t=10&Sort=

Here's a story about how 'Displays of Public Affection' are dealth with. DPA being a hug or consoling someone who was sad not to go home during a holiday.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =220#31994

[Perrigaud]

Niles,
  Here we go again. Ok, if you go to a concert it's easy to get caught up in the ambiance. People collectively can set a mood that is influential. If I attack a girl in the program I could get lowered levels and lose privelages. In the real world I could go to court and get sued for assault. I could even maybe go to jail. I didn't say needing to be "perfectly compliant". Please the program knows people have bad days, weeks, months etc. Stop hyping it up!
"Caught up in the positivity and growing" I knew you would have something to say about that. But, ready for this? That's what goes on whether it's by everyone of not. I'm just saying that that is what the ambiance is. Like you didn't know that. Here's some more: We worked on ourselves to better our lives. More? Ok! I came out a better person. You ok? Of course not. Keep ranting. I feel for those cases of abuse and wish there were some way to help them.
Make no mistake. I am going off of my own experience and will not discredit other's be it negative or positive.
if you listened to what I was actually conveying you would understand that I was referring to the ambiance. This is common knowledge to even the most ignorant person (regarding the ignorance of what goes on in the program). Everyone knows that it's supposed to be a positive environment. So, go ahead and get in a tizzy about it if you wish. But don't dramatize what I say.
And that's so true for why people who graduate fall on their face. Other reasons would be that they were just going along until they got out. It was all a facade.
Example: It's easy to get caught up in the ambiance when at church. It's easy to start saying things like: Yeah I'm going to live a pure life and so on. However, when not in church how easy is it to follow that path of life? [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-14 01:58 ]

[Nihilanthic]

Perrigaud, no offence, but considering I still really dont know how you got better and there still is a lot of mystery about day to day operations of the program and how semianrs work (the details are from those who DONT like it, remember that 30+ page thread called how about some damn answers?) excuse my skepticism.

I still dont know anything more than a general vague sense of you having 'gotten better'!

This isnt an attack on *YOU* just the ridiculous lack of information. Sheesh. The subway I go to is accredited and has to put on the wall their sanitation grade - which happens to be 101% - and say that I accused said subway of being unsanitary - they'd go check!!!

Plus, I can more or less see what goes on in a restaurant.

The programs are too secretive and too vague. They seek to retain the kid from their parents too much (albeit thats a good way to get tuition $$$, its UNETHICAL) and they take people who prolly dont need it.

 

The fatal pedagogical error is to throw answers, like stones, at the heads of those who have not yet asked the questions.

                               
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22Paul+Tillich%22&btnG=Google+Search' target='_new'>Paul Tillich

[Perrigaud]

All you got to do is ask me questions. Go ahead ask away. I'll answer. How I got better? I'll write an extensive report on me when I can.

[chi3]

perri,
when were you in the program? what years? did you "graduate" the program or were you pulled? if you went back to another school, was it private or public? did your credits transfer? does anyone know of anyone who has only been out of the program a short period of time? were the seminars as difficult when u were there? did they make you tell the deepest secret in front of the whole group? was this information used against you? did you see anyone who was verbally abused while there or at the seminars? wow! that's a lot, sorry, but you said ask!

thanks for your help!

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-13 01:19:00, Perrigaud wrote:

It's easy to get caught up in the positivity and growing. However, once out of the program they don't have the same system. Because of that a lot of kids that haven't picked up the skills will fail. I've seen a lot of my peers fall flat on their face.

Well... I think there's also a lot about the Program that's decidely not positive or conducive to real growth. But I understand completely what you're saying about getting caught up in it all. We could discuss that just about forever and probably never come to an agreement. I think it'll just take you some time to sort it out. Maybe not. Maybe I just missed the point and will never get it as OWC and others insist. But, in all honesty, I think you'll realize at some point that a lot of kids graduate ill-equipped for the real world because the Program is not designed to do that. It's not an oversight, it's intentional.

But, be that as it may, I have a much simpler question for you. Based on people you know, how many program graduates succeed after the Program?

Ok, I guess that's not such a simple question because it depends so much on how you define success. But lets say, for the sake of argument, success means doing better than marginal at work, school and getting along w/ parents. Avoiding drug problems and legal problems. Just the typical, everytown American definition of "not a failure".

When parents ask for references from Teenhelp or from an edcon, they're given a list of people to contact who all seem to believe that the Program has worked a miracle and that they (or their son or daughter) has made a stunning turn-around. What's more, they all seem to believe, sincerely, that this is the usual result.

What's your take? Estimate how many kids you met in the program, how many graduated, how many didn't, how many you know about and, of those you know, how many are at least moderately successful afterward.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright

[Anonymous]

I was getting ready to have jaw surgery a few years back.  The doctor gave me the names of three patients who had wonderful results AND the names of two who did not.  I thought that was one of the best things he could have done.  Why is it that these places can't (won't) do the same??  My doctor was obvioulsy confident enough in his skills and respectful enough of me to know that no one has THE answer.  He knew this was an important decision and he wanted me to have ALL the information before making up my mind.  He encouraged me to get a second opinion, to talk to the people for whom the surgery was unsuccessfull.  If these programs have nothing to hide, then why not have an open policy???

[Perrigaud]

I am a graduate. I graduated from Browning Academy and went on to do the college program and had no troubles. All of the people I kept in contact have no grudge against the program. Only one person I know out of all my program friends were against it. 5 of them did not graduate. 6 did. 2 were pulled. 4 are from Casa.

Success-wise. Well Out of the 11 2 are not doing well.

I entered the program in the end of 99 and graduated in 2001. It was about 22 months.

Yes the seminars were challenging. At that point we were used to discolsing our secrets, fears, issues and such. My fears and issues were challenged but not held against me.

About 75% of the kids I know of (including those I don't communicate with) are doing well. That 25% are in jail, doing drugs, or just up to the same stuff if not worse. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-15 15:21 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-15 15:15:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"I am a graduate. I graduated from Browning Academy

Browning Academy does not physically exist. Since this is the first time you've mentioned it (you always say you graduated from CCM), this is another lead in that direction.

[Nihilanthic]

"Yes the seminars were challenging. At that point we were used to discolsing our secrets, fears, issues and such. My fears and issues were challenged but not held against me."

Bullshit.

First... "At that point we were used to discolsing our secrets, fears, issues and such."

Thats complete, total, 100%, unadulterated, stinky bullshit. Its unnecessary unethical and potentially damaging. You seem to have a strong constitution but doing well DESPITE something isnt exactly a good thing for the program you were put into. Forced disclosure is only necessary for interrogation or to break down and bring about vulnerability and regression.

Maybe when you can disconnect from it and look from it from a 3rd person POV, or talk to a unbiased psychologist you'd understand it. But considering how people come out of that kind of seminar, you're not going to be convinced otherwise until it wears off and you can think freely of it.

Dont tell me I dont know what I'm talking about, I know two friends fucked from a kairos seminar. Yeah, I shouldnt be yelling at you, but I'm pissed off. I'm not chewing you out I'm CHALLENGING YOU :grin:

Which brinsg me to this turd: "My fears and issues were challenged but not held against me."

What a polite, sugarcoated PC way of saying they told you you were wrong and told you how to think otherwise! Challenged but not held against you. Hah! Thats just as amusing as the pentagon saying they dont use napalm anymore but yet use another sort of fuel-air incendeary ordinance.

Saying thats not "Napalm" is like saying "Jelly" is not "Jam".

And please, dont feed me a line about perceptions or the 'end result'. Youre a case where you have a strong will and came out of it. But torment and making strong willed people survive is not something that should be celebrated or even tolerated. Its needless and more about your fortitude than any kind of help. All your peers falling on their faces should speak for itself.

When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
--
Anonymous . . . for obvious reasons

[Deborah]

8th step states that Browning doesn't physically exist.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0g8bp/the8 ... /id69.html

But, they certainly appear to:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2 ... academy%22

Explain.

http://www.teenpaths.org/financial.htm
Notes on applying for your loan:
Part of the application will ask what school will be paid. In the field "School to be Paid", please be sure to list "Browning Academy" (Code 003948kn) City: St. George State: UT. The Browning Academy choice is applicable to any school in our program. The average expense of completing one of our programs is $45,000 so you may want to utilize that amount when they ask for an amount requested. This covers an average length of stay equal to 15 months in the program. Just as an example, assuming interest rates as of May 2004 and a payback over 20 years; your monthly payment would be $299.48 (Remember, this estimate can change as interest rates change or if you choose a shorter payback term. However, this particular estimate is based on an annual percentage rate of 5.20%). Amount necessary can be more or less depending on which school you finally decide to send you child to.

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-15 15:15:00, Perrigaud wrote:

Only one person I know out of all my program friends were against it. 5 of them did not graduate. 6 did. 2 were pulled. 4 are from Casa.



Success-wise. Well Out of the 11 2 are not doing well.

Ok, I'm not asking how they all feel about the program. Just how they're faring at life. And I know it's only been a couple of years for you. But out of the 11 people you're in touch w/ only 6 are graduates and all but 2 are doing well enough. So graduating doesn't really seem to be an issue then?

About 75% of the kids I know of (including those I don't communicate with) are doing well.

How do you come by info about the ones you don't communicate with? Here's why I ask. I remember when our family was very much involved w/ The Seed. And I remember believing, unquestioningly, the 99% success rate story. It seemed obvious and unquestionable! We'd see oldtimers (graduates) who came to an open meeting once in awhile and talk about their latest accomplishments or parents would drop in and do the same. It seemed like almost everyone we'd ever seen on front row was now doing well out there.

Under normal circumstances, this would be good enough for a decent assessment. But there's one caveate; no talking behind backs! When someone was deemed not doing well and they didn't land up on front row (started over), they were never spoken to or of again. And I've heard the same thing from former WWASP families. Not only the kid, but the parents are shunned if they're not in compliance.

This sounds very much the same, Perrigaud. You must have seen at least dozens of kids go through your program while you were there. And you only speak w/ a dozen of them? What do you know about the rest?

Never let your sense of
    morals get in the way of
    doing what's right
--Isaac Asimov