More bullshit advice from ST

[Anonymous]

Didn't say I was.  I"m done with that.  It's exhausting.  I said that's why I was posting what I did.  Hopefully other parents will do as others have and see themselves and think twice.  

Can ya let up now or would you like to continue?

[ZenAgent]

I think it' great that parents are doing more to help their kids then in previous generations, we are a generation of parents who tend to direct our kids life and making sure they get treatment is part of this parental direction. Some times, it is over parenting and not letting our kids take the bumps in life, however I still have difficulty with this but I am getting better as I try harder to let her be.[/color]

You weasel...you're a "generation of parents who tend to neglect our kids life (sic)..."  You're afraid the kids might end up as fucked up as you are, or you're ashamed that your kids are emulating your own  vices.  Take responsibility for your kids, get into therapy with them and maybe discover the kids' problems don't come from "negative" friends, T.V., or their music.  The issues causing these "bumps" might be closer to you than you think.  If you love your kids, raise them.  Don't be a fucking cop-out and hand your kid over to a bunch of strangers who are hellbent on breaking his mind and spirit.  If that's the kind of parenting you want to do, just have your kid lobotomized...it's cheaper and yields the same result.  

You fucking disgust me.

[Nihilanthic]

A "lack of alternatives" doesnt mean doing something abusive and ineffective is a good thing.

[Anonymous]

You "fucking disgust me", too.  I'm glad we can agree on something. Mutual "fucking disgust".  
You have no understanding of what it means to be a parent (I see Deborah is posting as a guest and claims to be a great parent) and no understanding of the lengths parents have gone to before resorting to a residential program.  Why the assumption that parents have neglected their kids?  Why the assumption that parents are not willing to accept the blame for parenting mistakes which have contibuted to teen problems?  Are we too permissive as parents?  Absolutely.  Is it hard to enforce boundaries and hold the line with single parent households or households with two working parents?  Absolutely.  
The most loving thing that can be done at a certain point is a good residential program where family and personal issues can be explored by the teen.
If you weren't so angry and ignorant, you might get it instead of being in such a rage because your OWN existence is so pathetic. Interesting how it isn't any of the kids of ST parents who are on here bitching and moaning.  It's a generation of losers from days gone by.

[Anonymous]

You "fucking disgust me", too.  I'm glad we can agree on something. Mutual "fucking disgust".  
You have no understanding of what it means to be a parent (I see Deborah is posting as a guest and claims to be a great parent)

That wasn't Deb, dearie.  I'm an actual parent with actual kids.  One is 21, the other is 19 (well, in a few days she will be).  YOU are the one who is clueless as to what it takes to raise a kid.  You say that maybe you were too "permissive", or didn't "enforce the boundaries"....why is it always that?  Sure I made mistakes, I wasn't HARD enough on junior so I'll send him away where they can REALLY make him mind me.  :roll:  :roll:  It's got to do with spending time with them.  Encouraging their interests, setting realistic expectations for them, finding out what feeds their soul.  All you people ever mention is that you weren't tough enough or you let them get away with too much.  That's part of this whole fucking attitude towards kids that sucks.  Put 'em all in little boxes, pigeonhole them.  Soon enough you'll have robotic little yes-children.


The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.   --  Frank Zappa.

[Deborah]

(I see Deborah is posting as a guest and claims to be a great parent)

My last contribution to this thread was over a week ago. Did you happen to read it?
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... &start=105

What did you think about Behrens & Smoot's connections to the industry? Were you under the impression that it was an "independent" study prior to reading my message?
Did you think it was the least bit deceptive that their "study" is presented as an independent, third-party study?
Why were only 9 NATSAP programs in the survey?
All Aspen programs by the way.
And why would they attempt to apply their "findings" about a hand full of Aspen programs to the entire membership of NATSAP programs?
And further deceive the public by implying that NATSAP programs are licensed?
As a program parent did you ever confirm the credentials of the people working with your child? Did you confirm the program was licensed and monitored by the state? Did you check with CPS to see if any reports of abuse had been filed? Did you allow the program to sever contact between you and your child?

[Anonymous]

See?  Deb's much brighter and posts more eloquently than I do.  I shoot from the hip.

Excellent questions she's asked you btw.  I wonder if you'll have the guts to address them all.

[Anonymous]

I absolutely did check out every program I considered for my child. I checked credentials and references. I agreed with the methods of communication provided with my child. By the way, these angry teens aren't too interested in communicating with their parents, and certainly aren't interested in having their interests encouraged and having realistic expectations set.  You sound like a tired old psychology text book.  Do you really not GET the kinds of behaviors that were going on?  This isn't Seventh Heaven, sweetie, it's teens who are out of control, dangerous, threatening and totally estranged from the family.  Oh, yes, my dear child, let's sit down and discuss your goals and how things went in algebra class today. What planet are you on?

[Deborah]

YOU are the one who is clueless as to what it takes to raise a kid.  You say that maybe you were too "permissive", or didn't "enforce the boundaries"....why is it always that?  Sure I made mistakes, I wasn't HARD enough on junior so I'll send him away where they can REALLY make him mind me.  :roll:  :roll:  It's got to do with spending time with them.  Encouraging their interests, setting realistic expectations for them, finding out what feeds their soul.  All you people ever mention is that you weren't tough enough or you let them get away with too much.  That's part of this whole fucking attitude towards kids that sucks.  Put 'em all in little boxes, pigeonhole them.  Soon enough you'll have robotic little yes-children.

I don't get any brighter or more eloquent than that. :wink:

[Anonymous]

I absolutely did check out every program I considered for my child. I checked credentials and references. I agreed with the methods of communication provided with my child. By the way, these angry teens aren't too interested in communicating with their parents, and certainly aren't interested in having their interests encouraged and having realistic expectations set.  You sound like a tired old psychology text book.  Do you really not GET the kinds of behaviors that were going on?  This isn't Seventh Heaven, sweetie, it's teens who are out of control, dangerous, threatening and totally estranged from the family.  Oh, yes, my dear child, let's sit down and discuss your goals and how things went in algebra class today. What planet are you on?

I give up.  You're hopeless.  If you really view teenagers like that, there's nothing else anyone can do.  I feel sorry for your kids.

I get all too well the kinds of behaviors you're talking about.  Like I said, I've raised 2.  Both without the benefit of a program even though I was being hounded to put the oldest one in by people just like you.  Thank GOD I knew better.

[Deborah]

***I absolutely did check out every program I considered for my child. I checked credentials and references.

Which program? References being? More than the Ed Cons do, which isn't saying much.

***I agreed with the methods of communication provided with my child. By the way, these angry teens aren't too interested in communicating with their parents, and certainly aren't interested in having their interests encouraged and having realistic expectations set.

If that's really the case, how is it that programs use contact with parents to motivate kids to "work the program"? So your kid's angry and you just give up? If that's the case, you fail the test your kid put you to.
Can you explain in graphic detail how exactly the strangers (21 year old interns?) at the program were able to get your kid to comply with their expectations, when you the parent couldn't? What methods did they employ?

***Do you really not GET the kinds of behaviors that were going on? This isn't Seventh Heaven, sweetie, it's teens who are out of control, dangerous, threatening and totally estranged from the family.

Interesting how the description of program kids changes depending on the argument being put forth. I assume you were describing your child? Now, how would other parents, with kids who are failing math or talking back, feel about their kid being warehoused with dangerous delinquents? I've never seen a program advertise that they take dangerously out of control kids. What threatening and dangerous behaviors was your child exhibiting?

***Oh, yes, my dear child, let's sit down and discuss your goals and how things went in algebra class today. What planet are you on?

That tone and attitude is not conducive to effective communication. Did the program teach you a different approach? Or did they teach your child to bark on que?

[Anonymous]

I think Fornits has taught YOU to bark on cue, Deborah. Woof woof.
Old dogs- no new tricks.

[Anonymous]

Excellent questions she's asked you btw.  I wonder if you'll have the guts to address them all.

Guess not.  Here they are again.

What did you think about Behrens & Smoot's connections to the industry? Were you under the impression that it was an "independent" study prior to reading my message?
Did you think it was the least bit deceptive that their "study" is presented as an independent, third-party study?
Why were only 9 NATSAP programs in the survey?
All Aspen programs by the way.
And why would they attempt to apply their "findings" about a hand full of Aspen programs to the entire membership of NATSAP programs?
And further deceive the public by implying that NATSAP programs are licensed?
As a program parent did you ever confirm the credentials of the people working with your child? Did you confirm the program was licensed and monitored by the state? Did you check with CPS to see if any reports of abuse had been filed? Did you allow the program to sever contact between you and your child?

While you're at it, could you please answer these too?

Which program? References being? More than the Ed Cons do, which isn't saying much.

Can you explain in graphic detail how exactly the strangers (21 year old interns?) at the program were able to get your kid to comply with their expectations, when you the parent couldn't? What methods did they employ?

Interesting how the description of program kids changes depending on the argument being put forth. I assume you were describing your child? Now, how would other parents, with kids who are failing math or talking back, feel about their kid being warehoused with dangerous delinquents? I've never seen a program advertise that they take dangerously out of control kids. What threatening and dangerous behaviors was your child exhibiting?

Thanks.

[Troll Control]

I think Fornits has taught YOU to bark on cue, Deborah. Woof woof.
Old dogs- no new tricks.

This dope is a plain ol' polemicist.  Just another shifty, shiftless prevaricator unwilling to specify the what's, where's, when's, why's and how's because to do so would show them in a light that they find upsetting.  You will get only dogma and inflammatory bullshit from this troll.

[Dr Phil]

You "fucking disgust me", too. I'm glad we can agree on something. Mutual "fucking disgust".
You have no understanding of what it means to be a parent (I see Deborah is posting as a guest and claims to be a great parent) and no understanding of the lengths parents have gone to before resorting to a residential program. Why the assumption that parents have neglected their kids? Why the assumption that parents are not willing to accept the blame for parenting mistakes which have contibuted to teen problems? Are we too permissive as parents? Absolutely. Is it hard to enforce boundaries and hold the line with single parent households or households with two working parents? Absolutely.
The most loving thing that can be done at a certain point is a good residential program where family and personal issues can be explored by the teen.
If you weren't so angry and ignorant, you might get it instead of being in such a rage because your OWN existence is so pathetic. Interesting how it isn't any of the kids of ST parents who are on here bitching and moaning. It's a generation of losers from days gone by.

I absolutely did check out every program I considered for my child. I checked credentials and references. I agreed with the methods of communication provided with my child. By the way, these angry teens aren't too interested in communicating with their parents, and certainly aren't interested in having their interests encouraged and having realistic expectations set. You sound like a tired old psychology text book. Do you really not GET the kinds of behaviors that were going on? This isn't Seventh Heaven, sweetie, it's teens who are out of control, dangerous, threatening and totally estranged from the family. Oh, yes, my dear child, let's sit down and discuss your goals and how things went in algebra class today. What planet are you on?

I think Fornits has taught YOU to bark on cue, Deborah. Woof woof.
Old dogs- no new tricks.

Were you this eloquent with your own children?