Author Topic: Sex and MMS  (Read 14997 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Sex and MMS
« on: July 22, 2006, 02:04:51 PM »
'm curious, how many of you all felt MMS had adverse effects on your concept of sexuality, sex, etc.  (as if society doesn't do this enough!)?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2006, 08:46:05 PM »
We were not allowed to have feelings towards any boys. If a relationship developed from a  home visit we were in the biggest trouble of all the trouble at that school. Also, we were not allowed to socialize outside MMS. Even when going to town we were not allowed to get out of the van. I guess for me, I had a fear of being caught with a male, and that left me with some sense that it was wrong to be with a male at all. Obviously promescuity follows close behind that sort of mentality. It was awful, we were deprogrammed and someone reprogrammed us horribly, if at all. We are totally equipt to take what you are saying and figure out what you want to hear before the end of your sentence. It comes natural. The thought of not doing so leaves you with a creepy fear. I got good at group, and it was not something I did on purpose either. I really felt proud of myself in group because I was learning to co-exist well. Now, the things we said in group sounded good, but not because we were doing enough helpful therapy that it is something that just 'evolved'. It was because we were broken down, exercised to the point of physical exhaustion, and emotionally stripped... and then comes in regression therapy conducted by a forestry major. Yeah, I would call that mind fuck

SM
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2006, 10:06:41 PM »
what was regressive therapy?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2006, 12:35:31 PM »
It is regression therapy. Do you remember the case of the young boy that was seeking psychiatric help for minor issues and came out with implanted memories of sexual abuse? It was John Mercer's form of regression therapy. He would relax us, talk us into a hypnotic state, and then walk us through events. The problem is that we would chronically 'make up' events so that we would not be without topic in group. See, if we did not say anything of significance in group then we were picked on, given work crew, and publically humiliated for however long John decided to make us the group focal point. The girls back that too, I know I did. It was nice to have the focus on someone else for a change. So, that leaves us in an environment where nobody could trust the next person because we would HAVE to turn on each other to save ourselves. Regression therapy was something he did to ' take us back'. Oddly enough every person who took part in that process came out with traumatic memories. Whether the memories were real or fake, the mind and body functioned as though they were real, leaving us with PTSD. Coupled with the lack of trust and the 'fight or flight' environment we were forced into a sort of stockholmes syndrome.

With that we identified with one or more staff member to make our feelings of victimization by the other seem more bareable. Make sense yet?  The regression therapy, for some, caused far more pain that good in an environment where we were left with no other option than to make up stories to talk about. Then these stories were kind of embedded in our memories. They were not real but left us with the scars of a real memory and it causes even a greater problem of not knowing what is real or fake. We question reality on a variet of levels, with people, their motivations, life etc.

Similar to vietnam vets, nightmares, night sweats, lack of trust, alcoholism and drug abuse, bouts of anger, anxiety, isolation etc.. that is the PTSD.

Stockholms Syndrome is far more complex. You can read about it online.

MDD is another thing that happens with massive abandonment issues. Major Depressive Disorder.

Sadly, there have been far too many suicides that happened after MMS. Out of my class of 12 there have been 2 or 3, I believe over half have tried.

Another reason for the extreme depression is that some of us, such as myself, suffered from mental illness that was diagnosed prior to the school and we were not given medication at the school. Combined coercive therapy, regression therapy, and un treated mental illness made the school an experience that was like a torture chamber. I had to smile at my parents and tell them it was great, after a while I believed it was. I wasnt taking pride in the things I was doing at the school, but desperately seeking approval in order to have some sort of break from being picked on. So, I learned to 'sell' myself and the school to everyone I came in contact with. It was horrible.

Does anyone remember the days that the educational consultants would come? They would 'tell' us not to act any different but we would just wait for the group to put on a show. I dont know what that was about. Maybe it was the lack of social contact and it was just wonderful to actually see an outside person or maybe it was the eye nod and look of approval from John. Who knows. It was weird
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Offline BarnardlyB

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Really?? I don't remember that........
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2006, 01:00:56 AM »
Personally I don't remember any regressive therapy. I do remember meditation and having to find out inner animal, or something....
Youpa group really really weirded me out, not into movement and stuff.
As for the meds, well the girls who were on meds before MMS were seen by the school therapist. Than they were given the proper meds, as I remember almost everyone was on meds, there were very few who weren't.

Please, In not saying MMS was perfect or right, yet what would you be doing with your life right now? Even though it may have changed you for the best or worst,....you all not have a meaning and purpose in life and you very very very clear on. Would you have been.....please, and you will all hate me saying this, move on. keep on one track to better the schools now. Why dig over and over in the past...???
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2006, 01:11:59 AM »
I'm fully in agreement with one of the last sentences of the troll's post, only replace "better the schools" with "incinerate the schools"...
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2006, 03:27:45 AM »
Quote from: ""BarnardlyB""
Why dig over and over in the past...???

to help those in the future, obviously. closure...uh, i don't know, why does anyone reflect on the past? sorry b, dumb question for a dumb q.

Quote from: ""BarnardlyB""
Personally I don't remember any regressive therapy.


Yea, the stopped that early on- totally messed me up though.  WTF was John thinking, trying to unearth memories, making some girsl dissacotiate, etc.  That was HORRIBLE!  HORRIBLY unethical.  We were his toys, that was all, far as I can tell... he played therapist and we played patient.  did i mention, it was HORRIBLE.

Seriously, i know now that the induced stuff wasn't real, although sometimes I wonder... I don't know- remember all that bs about body memories and all of a sudden EVERYBODY was having body memories of abuse past.  what a joke...on us...

What I will say is they made sex into a very weird thing, none of it was dealt with in any manner beyond like AA 101, which as we all know is a 'self help' group, not therapy!  So EVERYTHING being about running from emotions, using X as an escape just made not sex weird, but EVERYTHING! I still think, oh, am I using this or that... but no sense of what healthy is...putting everything into that over-simplified equation makes life appear perpetually off... i mean, honestly- I get it, you can use things to escape life but these things are also PART OF life... that contradiction just re-enforced their powerplays...they got to determine what was healthy, when something was good (health) bad (an escape)...but they needed to keep us there for 2years, so of course there's going to be all this stuff being pointed out as if it somehow is logical and makes sense.

It's a joke- locked up for near 2 years... to what end?  I don't think any one of us needed the kind of structure that would justify being locked up that long.

I work with mentally ill homeless adults... and there is not a single on who I would suggest be locked up- none are violent, none are hurting themselves.  sure, sometimes kids need a safe place- great, lets make sure they have it and it's consensual (unless they are a threat to themselves or others- then no consent should be required.)  Living w/in the community with dignity and support makes a world of difference.  And I'm talking about people who have been homeless anywhere from a few years to 20 years- and I've seen them get their lives together.

We didn't have anywhere near that kind of history.  Again, I just can't get over how big of a joke MMS is/was and how much of it was about lining their pockets and making us perpetually crazy/confused unecessarily.

surely if folks who are actively psychotic, like those who I work with, or have some other time of mental illness and are chemically dependent who have been homeless for years can improve with community based support, most kids can.
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Offline katfish

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Re: Really?? I don't remember that........
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2006, 03:31:34 AM »
Quote from: ""BarnardlyB""
keep on one track to better the schools now.


Oh, and that's b/c community based care, ie Systems of Care work better that Residential treatment. :o  

RT doesn't really work that well.  I don't think there's much most of is can do to IMPROVE RT's as none of us could even begin to tell you what that woudl look like.... but one way that can be done is to point out what was inapporpriate about our experiences, what we know.. hence, our post.    :D
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Really?? I don't remember that........
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2006, 08:51:00 AM »
Quote from: BarnardlyB
Personally I don't remember any regressive therapy.
You dont remember John having people relax in group while he talked them back in their minds and walked them through traumatic events? I would encourage you to ask Addie about those times. She experienced the most exposure to that stuff.

I do remember meditation and having to find out inner animal, or something....
Youpa group really really weirded me out, not into movement and stuff.
As for the meds, well the girls who were on meds before MMS were seen by the school therapist. Than they were given the proper meds, as I remember almost everyone was on meds, there were very few who weren't.

I remember a couple of people on anti depressants. Not anti-psychotics, mood stabilizers, or anything for actual mental illness. Just depression. I also remember ADD meds taken away from Tara Paulin.

Personally, I only saw a Dr once in two years for a 15 minute check up. That is hardly sufficient.

I know you say to move on. I can move on with my own life, but what exactly is your problem with making sure it does not happen to another person?

That is like a rape victim moving on and having people tell her to not share her story. If you want people to move on, why don't you go first!
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2006, 11:07:06 AM »
i only recall one person, Melissa S being on.. Lithium?  everyone else was taken off meds, far as I can recall.. Oh, Katie H on wellbutrin.

Also, was that really Tara's last name?  From Calagary?

thx
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2006, 11:26:53 AM »
Tara Paulin... I talked to her about five years ago. The entire time the school was hard on her for her facial movements, mannerisms, and inability to speak clearly and this was due to half of her brain not functioning. It was entirely unfair for a medical problem that has psychological outcome to be treated as an intentional act. Kind of like punishing someone with epilepsy for having a siezure. This is just another example of WHY a relevant college education is so important when dealing with the fragile psyche of young women in their developmental years
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Offline Kerrybear

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meds and mms
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2006, 01:54:56 PM »
I was on several different meds while at mms.  They tried anti anxiety, anti depression, everything like that.  I remember other girls being on wellbutrin or prozac.  We went to missoula to a dr there, but I only remember going twice.  I DO remember girls having birth control prescribed to them, which I thought was weird in an all girls school.  I was told it was to regulate their cycles. (After MMS I was so thin I didn't menstrate for about 3 months.)

On the other topic of sex, I was still promiscous after leaving all of the programs I went to.  I think now I have issues around my sexuality, but I don't think I blame it on John's therapy techniques.  I didn't have an extensive sexual history before mms, but I was told to write one.  When I did, I was told it was too short and I wasn't being honest.  So I wrote that I had slept with a lot of men, which wasn't true at the time.  I guess I think that all women at one point in their lives have sexual issues and abuse.  John's therapy doesn't strike me as ethical or valid, but I don't blame mms for issues around my own sexuality.
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Offline BarnardlyB

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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2006, 12:52:01 AM »
"I know you say to move on. I can move on with my own life, but what exactly is your problem with making sure it does not happen to another person?
That is like a rape victim moving on and having people tell her to not share her story. If you want people to move on, why don't you go first!"

I have no problem with you all trying not to let another person go through the hell you all beleive you went through. I even said that.........The reason I don't 'move on' is the same reason you all don't. I feel a fire to defend a place I beleive helped shape me into the person I am today. It worked for me, and maybe not for you so please no comments, it is what it is....none of us can change that.
Treat lightly guest.....I was raped one year to the summer after MMS. I do know what it feels like...please remember, you never know what people are going through so always tread lightly.
I was there way after Addie Harris, so no I don't remember.

And to milk gargling death penal, find another forum...this ones all girls, obviously not for you.

Kat, I do agree with you when it comes to feeling guilty for things one did after MMS. I thought I would turn into a odd looking creature if I had sex, or drank. I remember feeling bad and akward doing these things. Also it weirded me out cause my rape was the first time, so anything after was weird, but also because of all the stories I heard from you girls, thats was terrified me the most......
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2006, 02:09:46 AM »
You dare say, "the hell you BELIEVE you went through...."
And you wonder why everyone gets pissed off every time you post?  No one "believes they went through hell at MMS" they well KNOW they did, missy.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2006, 07:42:53 AM »
Do you remember when they were breaking us and they would say," I believe you believe that." ? That saying would basically tell us that our thoughts were some false sense of reality and that their way of thinking was just so loving and caring that they "Believe we believe that". It caused a sense of humiliation, like we were wrong or crazy and that they were right. I guess given the right situation, tone of voice it would have been a perfect tool for a counselor to not pass judgement on a schizophrenic that was dellusional. That was not what they did. It was said in a way to shame someone, a way that was just filled with sarcasm.

After we were there for a while they would just start telling us that we " were in our shit" and if we didnt stop it meant work crew or some exhausting physical task, or worse, being the focal point of group. I dreaded that, then people would 'ring the bell'. ughh
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