Author Topic: Sex and MMS  (Read 14862 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2006, 10:19:03 AM »
whats funnier to me than kat being this crazy super advocate and having bringing some ACCOUNTABILITY to MMS, ya'll remmeber them holding us 'accoutable??? HER HAVING been at mms especially since john 'the sadist meglomaniac' mercer is on the NATSAP board and is respected , -MAYBE -even though we all know the truth and that our truth is finally being TOLD and challenging mms and his meaningless ecology degree.  BUT, the funnier thing to me is that Besty is their lone supporter and argues in circles.  i dont know which one MMS SHOULD BE dreading more!!!  Too bad they havent interviewed Betsy for news stories because taht would be THE BEST!  The would probably get MMS shut down quiker than Katfish!

I have never been more entertaine, hehe.  at every turn besty agrees that John and others used untherapeutic practices and is unable to isolate the unthical with the beneficial or point out the obvious reason she thinks it was ok for HER TO BE MISTREATED AND FOR OTHERS TO BE ABUSED, her home life was a nightmare and anywhere would have been better. her parents are negelctful and abusive so ..  none of these things means John mercer should be invovled with kids and that MMS with him invovled should still stand.  AND, if Besty you think its ok for you to get a SHAM and have it be called THERAPY and be ABUSED then you should say that, but dont you DARE EVER say this is ok for others.  EVER! what happened at MMS was NOT OK AND IT WILL NEVER BE OK, so to reconcile this maybe we should just say, BESTY you feel its ok to be used as a punching bag because your damaged goods and some of us made it out and somehow had learned to love ourselves again and trust our own minds again to admit that John Mercer, MMS pretended to love us and be our savior but really it was a sick twisted mind game the ENTIRE TIME!

plus i dont think anyone thinks kids should not have teh right to have a safe, tehrapeutic place to go but the place has to actually be a safe and therapetic fukin place!!!  MMS is neither, so as much as betsy you want to say MMs helped you you're kinda missin everyones point!
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Offline Kerrybear

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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2006, 06:02:14 AM »
Guest please chill out everyone is ENTITLED to an opinion.  It is your respose is immature.  To attack someone just because they believe something that you don't, even though they understand and have empathy for the way you feel, AND on top of that she is strong enough to say it and keep saying it.
No need to go on the attack, we will all still read what you write even if you calm down. :o
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2006, 08:43:51 AM »
She has a need to voice her outrage. However, both of you need a time out for grammar and spelling violations!  I guess it is just another example of Mission Mountain?s superior education.
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Offline BarnardlyB

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« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2006, 10:42:27 PM »
"accoutable, Besty, entertaine, untherapeutic, unthical, invovled, teh, tehrapeutic, therapetic fukin"
Guest, you might want to look over your own work rather than criticize others.  And please, lean how to spell my name. Its really not that hard.

"then you should say that, but dont you DARE EVER say this is ok for others. EVER! what happened at MMS was NOT OK AND IT WILL NEVER BE OK, so to reconcile this maybe we should just say, BESTY you feel its ok to be used as a punching bag because your damaged goods and some of us made it out and somehow had learned to love ourselves again and trust our own minds again to admit that John Mercer, MMS pretended to love us and be our savior but really it was a sick twisted mind game the ENTIRE TIME! "

Did I say it was Okay for other to be treated badly? No. Im simply fighting my side and youre fighting yours. I don't beleive I was abused or had it that bad. I am saying I, as in, me, and with that I also see and understand where you are coming from and how you  can inturpert what happned as abuse.  
Damaged goods? Do I see someone elses issues being projected onto me? Speak for yourself.      

Please don't pretend to know me, or imagine you know how I feel about myself. Are you sure you love yourself? Anger, which you have alot of doesn't show one loving themself.  Loving oneself is for each there own. Its like an opinion. We all have them, didn't ways, different views, and different ways to go about expressing them.

Thanks Kerry for the comment. I appreciate it. You are the first person who actually sees what Ive been talking about and asking people to do for awhile. To try and understand where Im coming from and understand I see what they are saying and to an extent agree but not fully.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2006, 12:06:56 AM »
Quote from: ""Kerrybear""
Guest please chill out everyone is ENTITLED to an opinion.  It is your respose is immature.  To attack someone just because they believe something that you don't, even though they understand and have empathy for the way you feel, AND on top of that she is strong enough to say it and keep saying it.
No need to go on the attack, we will all still read what you write even if you calm down. :o


K, were you there when Besty was an intern?  I think you might understand the anger if you did   :flame:   but I agree that there are better ways to talk about this and 'opinions'.

 is abuse or mistreatment or maltreatment , whatever, a subjective issue?   :o
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2006, 12:17:36 AM »
Sounds like Betsy might have exposed some of these MMS girls to her own brand of "intern abuse."  If this is true, that is really too bad, for both the girls who may have suffered, and for Betsy, herself.
This type of thing happens in lots of programs.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2006, 06:48:49 AM »
I have a question for barnalby b. You admit that this school that you were sent to was not all beer and skittles and that when you got out you often felt a sense of guilt. You also admit that you felt scared of sex because of the horror stories the other girls were made to tell you. At the same time you feel compelled to defend it because it made you the person you are today. i assume by that you mean that it shaped your good qualities.

 But how do you know that you would not be the person you are today anyway? I think it is commendable that you want to move on with your life and are doing all you can to do so. it is also good to turn something negative into a positive.  But why do you have the idea that it takes adverse experiences to bring out your best? Why don't you think that this was always in you?
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Offline BarnardlyB

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« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2006, 10:30:46 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Kerrybear""
Guest please chill out everyone is ENTITLED to an opinion.  It is your respose is immature.  To attack someone just because they believe something that you don't, even though they understand and have empathy for the way you feel, AND on top of that she is strong enough to say it and keep saying it.
No need to go on the attack, we will all still read what you write even if you calm down. :o

K, were you there when Besty was an intern?  I think you might understand the anger if you did   :flame:   but I agree that there are better ways to talk about this and 'opinions'.

 is abuse or mistreatment or maltreatment , whatever, a subjective issue?   :o


HAHAHA, Actually Kerry was there when I was a student,......just imagine that...  

Please explain what I did to you that bad?!, mean or abusive?
I recall alot of sitting around and watching, and giving alittle bit of feedback. Since graduating from MMS I have been complimented many many times on how nice I am, maybe you triggerd an anger reaction, something that I don't remember....
I have had many comments that when i have a straight face I look angry, but more than not, im not angry.
Soooo, not sure where you going there......yet I am very very sorry if i hurt your feelings and was mean to you in any way.
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Offline BarnardlyB

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« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2006, 10:40:17 PM »
Quote from: ""Pls help""
I have a question for barnalby b. You admit that this school that you were sent to was not all beer and skittles and that when you got out you often felt a sense of guilt. You also admit that you felt scared of sex because of the horror stories the other girls were made to tell you. At the same time you feel compelled to defend it because it made you the person you are today. i assume by that you mean that it shaped your good qualities.

 But how do you know that you would not be the person you are today anyway? I think it is commendable that you want to move on with your life and are doing all you can to do so. it is also good to turn something negative into a positive.  But why do you have the idea that it takes adverse experiences to bring out your best? Why don't you think that this was always in you?


You ask a very good question and its something I do want to think about.
I do know that mms brought me here, grounded me and woke me up to the people around me. I never thought of anyone else except myself. I was more than humbled and learned the value of hard work. There are tools I learned that help me in my day to day. For example if I don't exercise for awhile, 4 days, I am soo awful. Now sure any other person could realize this but I don't know where or when in my life other than mms I would have learned this.
Maybe the reason I think the only way to be my best is to go through heart ache, becase its all i know. I know thats a common thought through out my posts but its true. I know no other way. maybe everyone was a taught a different way, and understood that, then when to mms and knew it was wrong but its the only way I was taught and the only way I know how to be. Slowly and surely my life is settling down and I know that conflict and stress is not all there is to life and I now know, thanks to kat, that this is an issue. I had no idea.
I know i have now rambled and I will think about your question not only to give you the answer but to figure it out for myself. thanks...
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2006, 02:45:14 AM »
you mention that you were self centred before MMS. i am guessing you were what about 14 when you went? That seems to me an age when most people are.

What puzzles me when I read your posts is that you seem to have an idea that you needed bad things to happen to you to make you a better person. How do you not know that you deserved good things? That the adults in your life could not have taught you these values in a healthy way? That there was no need to make you feel that sex is frightening and bad or that without hard labor you would not develop a work ethic?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2006, 11:38:20 AM »
Quote from: ""BarnardlyB""

Please explain what I did to you that bad?!, mean or abusive?


http://wwf.avigation.net/viewtopic.php? ... c&start=15
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2006, 11:53:24 AM »
not against me and i am very glad that you are nice now and i believe you.  but the fact that betsy u know. you know:exclaim::exclaim::exclaim: John was a jerk:exclaim:  just because hes better that your paretns or family doesnt make it right.  we deserved better :exclaim:  you deserved better  :exclaim:  

we were NOT treated by someone who KNEW what he was doing :exclaim:  its fraud:exclaim:  and i get it though you learned to be in touch with your body and excersize but we didnt go there for that.  that was a side note.  they used these things and pretneded it was therapy and like John knew what he was doing.

we were exploited.  mistreated. treated with fake therapy by fake therapist.  moved by mostly fear and guilt not learning or understanding.  they used out bodies to benefit the school- not us.  (chores is one thing but we did much more than that)
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2006, 05:35:45 PM »
Sometimes when people have zero idea of who they are coupled with zero self esteem the only way they can feel anything consistant with the way they feel about themselves is to have someone treat them like shit.

Does it strike anyone as odd that John Mercer was sexually abused as a child and went on to work with children and take out some anger on them? Do you think that maybe his aggression towards us had something to do with him not getting help as a child, so, he is going to try and take it out on us because we were getting help? I mean, if you look at it, everyone in his favorite group was taken through his form of therapy to bring up memories and all ended up being molested by family members(some really were). Do you think that he was trying to deal with his own issues through us, and take out his anger ON us.

I remember thinking about this at the school. An angry, un-treated sexual abuse victim, in charge of a large group of teen age girls, who was unusually controlling and displayed large amounts of consistant need for emotional strain on the girls? The intense sexual histories, lack of social contact, need to talk about sexually explicit things, need to exert a show of dominion and control over the teenage girls ( victim/helpless, victimizer/in control). Sound familiar?

Sounds sick to me. What is even more sickening is the bill they passed in MT to 'regulate' the schools. Guess what? The committee is run by the heads of the  schools. What a joke. Who is going to protect the girls.

IF the girls were sent there mentally ill, abused, or neglected who the hell says it is within the scope of ethical standards to abuse them further just to crack them. People build a wall to protect themselves, if you break the wall down and fail to build it up you just have an exposed and really screwed up person. It takes YEARS to get over that, years.

I still have nightmares. I still worry. I constantly am talking in circles just to make sure I am saying the right thing at the right time, I have a problem with performance anxiety and social skills. Minus the social skills, I didnt have problems with the other things. I never worried that everyone in a group was going to bombard me with a scathing review of my daily actions and make me over analyze everything to the point of being mad. I never did that before... but I learned to not only aquire that skill but master the art of hiding the anxiety of having to over analyze everything.

The school sucked for me. Period.
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Offline BarnardlyB

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« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2006, 12:13:25 PM »
"Does it strike anyone as odd that John Mercer was sexually abused as a child "
Personally once again, I had no idea about this....really? Sooo, my own personal opinion having been through a sexual trama, wouldn't the last thing anyone who was sexually abused want to talk about is sex and other peoples experience? Im not denying that he was becuase I don't know if he was or wasn't. Its not adding up for me why he would want to talk about it....or have others talk about it.

"Sometimes when people have zero idea of who they are coupled with zero self esteem the only way they can feel anything consistant with the way they feel about themselves is to have someone treat them like shit."

Im gonna pretend that wasn't towards me, once again, don't pretend to know me or have any idea how I feel or think. I've had my life together for quite sometime now and I have know my purpose and have known what I want to do with the rest of my life for the past 6-7 years.....Last time I checked thats since highschool. Not many people can say that.

"I still have nightmares. I still worry. I constantly am talking in circles just to make sure I am saying the right thing at the right time, I have a problem with performance anxiety and social skills. Minus the social skills, I didnt have problems with the other things. I never worried that everyone in a group was going to bombard me with a scathing review of my daily actions and make me over analyze everything to the point of being mad. I never did that before... but I learned to not only aquire that skill but master the art of hiding the anxiety of having to over analyze everything."

I'm curious and would have to guess that you weren't a scapegoat at mms. There are many many girls and some who I keep in contact with, who don't have nightmares, who don't have the symptoms that you talk about. All that says to me is that mms is for some, not everyone. I do find it interested that all the girls during the 94-96 period who were not scapegoats and were the 'leaders' of the group, had the hardest time after mms, ie;relapse, trouble socially, even more family conflict, cut off contact with girls they promised to be friends with forever.
 Yet those of us who were the scapegoats and dubbed to 'fall flat on our face' have done darn well for ourselves and have continued to have contact with girls, have had no relapse, make friends easily, and don't have any of the syptoms you talk about guest.
Im not trying to discredit you feelings and I feel badly for what you have gone through, and are still going through. I just find it curious.

Im not the only girl out there with these feelings, im just bold enough, as I always have been and always will be, to actually say something. Most girls don't want to have much to do with this forum beucase they don't feel anyone will listen and they will just be attacked as I have been many times.
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Offline BarnardlyB

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« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2006, 12:30:11 PM »
Quote from: ""Pls help""
you mention that you were self centred before MMS. i am guessing you were what about 14 when you went? That seems to me an age when most people are.

What puzzles me when I read your posts is that you seem to have an idea that you needed bad things to happen to you to make you a better person. How do you not know that you deserved good things? That the adults in your life could not have taught you these values in a healthy way? That there was no need to make you feel that sex is frightening and bad or that without hard labor you would not develop a work ethic?


Actually I had just turned 13 two months before, so I was young.
I do understand what your saying and I thank you for you concern and compassion, yet I honestly don't think that the adults in my life would have been able to show me anything. I have had to cut off contact with my parents many times simply to have some quite time for myself. Sure there could have been other ways to learn a work ethic yet im not sure where that would have happened or how.
and no sex isn't bad, but I had the tools to know how to deal iwht my rape thanks to my experience at mms.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ou are you
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Two individuals dancing on our own two feet, & when were together...its beautiful