The Who

[RobertBruce]

DJ do you think Who and Bullfrog compare notes? They seem to be on the same wave length with everything.

Which Aspen Camp did thoses shots come from? What time frame?Everyone in both clips have British accents..... Hmmmm.

The industry as a whole has been thriving and improving. When I left in June we were in a discussion on the improvements made at one of the TBS (ASR) and how successful their graduates were. There just isn?t any mounting evidence, none, that I have seen. I have read accounts of kids that faired poorly and some that got hurt. But this applies to all institutions that oversee children. Our own public school system is standing by allowing our kids to get raped by teachers, beat up by classmates and shot?? The rape is probably not all reported either, just the tip of the ice berg and this is happening within systems designed to keep our kids safe and have multiple levels of oversight.

The problems TBS's are experiencing pales in comparison. The kids are being sent there to keep them safe and get them back on track and it is working!!! Kids get turned around and get back on track. Not all schools employ the best people or procedures and I would not recommend them and in the same way I would not recommend sending your kids to some public school systems. I expect that parents review each school before choosing the best place for thier child.

I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc. Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids. Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does. Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US. I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!

Once again you demand irrefutable proof from others regarding claims, yet yourself refuse to back up any of yours. Why is this?

[egypt has pyramids]

I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc. Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids. Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does. Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US. I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!

No, it really doesn't. This is the same response I've gotten from a lot of people who I've told about my own experiences in abusive programs. They say something to the effect of "that would never happen in the US, if it did somebody would have already stopped it!" People REALLY believe this tripe for some reason, maybe until the truth is forced upon them and they see it for themselves will they realize just how NAIVE they really sound.  :roll:

[TheWho]

-

Was it wise to send an anorexic drug addict on a physically demanding Wilderness trek?

Depends on how demanding it was for her, fresh air good food, getting away from her bad influences.  I think she ended up making out well.

if ASR was so wonderful why did Ashley try to kill herself when she got the fantastic news they would keep her there another year?

Only Ashley would know that

Why was every kid strip searched? Tyrone had not even tried dope or any other drug, neither had DJ

It was the process at the time, no knives, drugs etc. in wilderness, keeps everyone safe.  That?s the whole point.

Do you think Trevor, the popular English Lad was saved by ASR? His London visit did not really go so well did it?

No it did not, doesn?t sound he was ready for a home visit yet.  But that is what they are for, to test the waters, see how the child is progressing.  The last thing you want to do is put the kids back out into thier old environment  without any transition.  If they had done that he probably would be dead now.  As it turned out he was still enrolled at ASR , moved down one level and was able to finish his work.  

And what of Trevors now dead American mate Tanner. i wonder what his poor parents think of ASR? Hi dad may now be coherent. he was initially so grief stricken that he went over the deepend and robbed the local jeweller!

That was sad and his father took it hard, affected his life.  His professional friends rallied to support him.  He never mentioned regretting sending him to ASR nor blamed the schools he attended.  Some kids are just hard to reach.
There was a friend of mine in high school who took his life and it is a horrible thing to have to experience.

Do you have any insight into the fact that marcus devoted 1 line to the enthusiastic young English teacher leaving after one year saying the only thing she liked about the place was the kids?

No I don?t

Did it surprise you that DJ a kid who was kind of young and naive for his age felt the need to bullshit about how "bad" he was when he was around older more sophisticated boys? Do you think lumping him in with such kids was helpful. If so why?

This is very typical when all the kids are telling war stories and yours just doesn?t measure up you may embellish your story a little to fit in.  My daughter did this, in fact by the time they got to Costa Rica they all looked back and laughed at the stories they told each other just to fit in.

Its been awhile since I read the book.  It is a good snapshot of ASR and TBS?s in general although the peer group structure and many of the restrictions have changed and improved.  Nutritional choices are much better, not a big sense of being isolated or locked away (unless you get snowed in).  But the school use to be the site of national cross country skiing and a resort so there are a lot of trails.  There are no fences and you can walk to town, although, you will get kicked out if you break the rules like any other boarding school, so the kids don?t feel hopeless that they cant leave.

Hope this helps

[Anne Bonney]

Oh, Come on a TV show?  You really expect anyone to form an opinion based on Television?  I have never seen it, but I am sure that they didn?t spend much footage on the kids doing well getting along playing cards or growing by their experience (It would be too Boring!!)  Lets see some sensationalism, lets mix it up, prod them with a sharp stick we need to keep the viewers interested and the ratings up.  You think the show ? Real World? would still be on if they cut out all the fights, drinking binges, hot tub scenes and confrontations and just aired the days they stayed home hung over, playing cards and drinking orange juice?  Reality Television is designed to intentionally spark controversy.

But that's the whole psychology of these places.  Stoke the fires.  Stress kids to the point of exhaustion.  Break them down.  That's what they do.  That's how they accomplish what they advertise.  The Zappa quote in my signature says it.  Parents are freaking out about their teenagers, programs capitalize on that and promise to return their 'little girl' to them.  


http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=12902&start=75

Our daughter has now ben at Aspen for 7 months and has made the "Greenhorn" level, which allows her to go on overnight visits inside Utah with parents. She had just made it when I recently visited, so she was limited to 12 hour visits for the first round.

I almost (well, actually did) cry. She was back to her giggling, silly, snowball throwing, 16-year old self, rather than the withdrawn, drug-hazed, psychotic person who we first enrolled there. Like many, she was a victim of (non-family) abuse and trauma, with depression and PTSD. Her therapist is absolutely wonderful and treats her with respect and friendship, as does the residential staff.

That's one of the saddest posts I've seen in a long time.  This girl went through some kind of traumatic experience (abduction and god knows what else) and she's shipped off to a mindrape institution.  The OP of the thread had a kid who, I'm sure by most program parent standards, was close to deathinsanityorjail.  They pulled their kid because they realized it was all about punishment, control and money.

These places take whatever crisis a family is going through, perceived or real, and ramp it up.  It's really no different than reality TV.  The more chaos the programs can show that the kids were/are in, the more the parent is likely to 'trust the process' and 'turn over their will'.  That's why you end up hearing about kids making shit up or grossly exaggerating their past behaviors once they've been indoctrinated.  The more extreme the behavior, the better the program is praised for 'treating' it.   Program parents want their tame  child-creature.

[Troll Control]

Case in point:

On 2006-05-31 04:57:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"

TheWho wrote:
Are you kidding!!! You have friends on the inside {who know everything) and they conveniently hit the ?Reply all button? (by accident) on the issue that I happen to challenge you on, wow, DJ you do go to extremes to win an argument.

Have you read any of the other threads, Who?  You are completely WRONG AGAIN.  How do you think I have an entire email string from several management personnel detailing the fact HLA has had pedophiles/rapists/sociopaths, etc on campus.

Give it a rest.  I posted those emails in their entirety when people like you were saying the same things you're saying now.  Go back and read before you act like even more of a dummy.

To answer your question: YES, I do have people on the "inside" who are willing to provide information to force HLA to provide adequate services and a safe environment for the kids.  You're so eager to say that I DON'T have this type of information that you make an ass of yourself by NOT READING the threads you attempt to comment upon where these emails (that you claim simply CAN'T BE HAD) are already posted and have been for months.

Sorry, DJ, I consider myself very open minded but I cant believe what you say on this one.  I?m am sure there are plenty of people who believe you so you don?t need my backing to keep your ego afloat.

Just a few weeks later a massive lawsuit was filed and the campus was raided by CPS, based in large part on this particular (forensically verified legitimate and genuine) email exchange.

Just one concrete example of how blind and deaf TheWho actually is...

He thinks everyone, including news outlets, is lying about abuse at BM facilities.

[TheWho]

Oh, Come on a TV show?  You really expect anyone to form an opinion based on Television?  I have never seen it, but I am sure that they didn?t spend much footage on the kids doing well getting along playing cards or growing by their experience (It would be too Boring!!)  Lets see some sensationalism, lets mix it up, prod them with a sharp stick we need to keep the viewers interested and the ratings up.  You think the show ? Real World? would still be on if they cut out all the fights, drinking binges, hot tub scenes and confrontations and just aired the days they stayed home hung over, playing cards and drinking orange juice?  Reality Television is designed to intentionally spark controversy.

But that's the whole psychology of these places.  Stoke the fires.  Stress kids to the point of exhaustion.  Break them down.  That's what they do.  That's how they accomplish what they advertise.  The Zappa quote in my signature says it.  Parents are freaking out about their teenagers, programs capitalize on that and promise to return their 'little girl' to them.  


http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=12902&start=75

Our daughter has now ben at Aspen for 7 months and has made the "Greenhorn" level, which allows her to go on overnight visits inside Utah with parents. She had just made it when I recently visited, so she was limited to 12 hour visits for the first round.

I almost (well, actually did) cry. She was back to her giggling, silly, snowball throwing, 16-year old self, rather than the withdrawn, drug-hazed, psychotic person who we first enrolled there. Like many, she was a victim of (non-family) abuse and trauma, with depression and PTSD. Her therapist is absolutely wonderful and treats her with respect and friendship, as does the residential staff.

That's one of the saddest posts I've seen in a long time.  This girl went through some kind of traumatic experience (abduction and god knows what else) and she's shipped off to a mindrape institution.  The OP of the thread had a kid who, I'm sure by most program parent standards, was close to deathinsanityorjail.  They pulled their kid because they realized it was all about punishment, control and money.

These places take whatever crisis a family is going through, perceived or real, and ramp it up.  It's really no different than reality TV.  The more chaos the programs can show that the kids were/are in, the more the parent is likely to 'trust the process' and 'turn over their will'.  That's why you end up hearing about kids making shit up or grossly exaggerating their past behaviors once they've been indoctrinated.  The more extreme the behavior, the better the program is praised for 'treating' it.   Program parents want their tame  child-creature.

Well the TV thing,  just cant see.  No way am I going to base my decisions on a reality series.  I cant believe I am hearing this.  I get called for ignoring facts and then we see a post of a utube clip from england and start backing your positions with Reality series on TV.
I agree and always have that there are abusive programs out there, there are programs in every industry that dont stand up to minimal standards set by the majority.  But they all cant be judged based on the worsed!  Should we assume that someones time at straight is the same as someone going thru ASR?  or Vice versa?

Sure there is work to be done for many schools as is the case for most institutions which work with kids, but lets look at each one independently.

[RobertBruce]

Another example of how Cindy refuses to ever back up his own claims, yet demands others should when they make statements contrary to his brainwashing.

A very good way to accomplish your goal is to maintain credibility, stay with the facts and compare them to known requirements or acceptable limits would be my recommendation. One needs to be very specific and factual.

Hmmm...Cindy you don't seem to be very specific or factual in your claims....

We don?t know this, I believe you are speculating. Again to maintain credibility I want you to provide facts. This what is hurting you, you jumped to conclusions with the dispensing of meds issue and it burned you and now you are doing it again.

Again with the demand for facts (they had been provided several times over during the course of the discussion, Cindy was just too dumb to pick up on it).

Sorry this statement is false, he obviously doesn?t know what he is talking about. Claims to know about HLA and what is going on ?.. Interesting ?? no credibility left.

More nuggets of wisdom from Cindy.

Why the double standard?

[Troll Control]

TheWho wrote:

Well the TV thing, just cant see. No way am I going to base my decisions on a reality series. I cant believe I am hearing this. I get called for ignoring facts and then we see a post of a utube clip from england and start backing your positions with Reality series on TV.

So you're saying that an Aspen facility would deliberately cause bodily harm to a patient - in violation of their policy - to allow a TV program to get ratings?  That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.  Sorry, but this type of violence against children is their policy, not something they decided in an ad hoc fashion to do in front of the camera.  That's ridiculous.

This is how these places operate.  When psychological coercion doesn't work, they use physical coercion.  Nothing new there;it's well documented.  The program does indeed use force to deal with patients.  A clever producer caught it on film and used it to promote a TV show.  What in the world does that have to do with the practice being in place at the facility?  Physical abuse of patients is wrong whether it's caught on film or not.  

This is simply prima-facie evidence that it does, in fact, happen at Aspen facilities.  TheWho blames the TV producer for the abuse inflicted on a child by staff that were captured on film doing it of their own volition.

This is one seriously addled brain we're dealing with here, folks.  In any case, it's a useful look into the disturbing psychology of program parents.  I bet he blames CNN for the roadside bombs in Iraq, too. :roll:

[Deborah]

Well the TV thing,  just cant see.  No way am I going to base my decisions on a reality series.  I cant believe I am hearing this.  I get called for ignoring facts and then we see a post of a utube clip from england and start backing your positions with Reality series on TV.

While there are a few similarities, Brat Camp was/is, for all intents and purposes, a documercial. Marketing wilderness camps to the general public. No one stands to gain from Reality TV series except the producer and sponsers. Not so with Brat Camp. And if they so blazenly present the intentional infliction of pain as an acceptable form of gaining compliance, what IS happening when the camera are rolling?

[TheWho]

Which Aspen Camp did thoses shots come from?  What time frame?Everyone in both clips have British accents..... Hmmmm.

The industry as a whole has been thriving and improving.  When I left in June we were in a discussion on the improvements made at one of the TBS (ASR) and how successful their graduates were.  There just isn?t any mounting evidence, none, that I have seen.  I have read accounts of kids that faired poorly and some that got hurt.  But this applies to all institutions that oversee children.  Our own public school system is standing by allowing our kids to get raped by teachers, beat up by classmates and shot?? The rape is probably not all reported either, just the tip of the ice berg and this is happening within systems designed to keep our kids safe and have multiple levels of oversight.

The problems TBS's are experiencing pales in comparison.  The kids are being sent there to keep them safe and get them back on track and it is working!!!  Kids get turned around and get back on track.  Not all schools employ the best people or procedures and I would not recommend them and in the same way I would not recommend sending your kids to some public school systems.  I expect that parents review each school before choosing the best place for thier child.

I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc.  Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids.  Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does.  Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US.  I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!

:wstupid:  ::bangin::

So sorry...  I didn't realize you were deaf and blind.  My apologies.

I believe AA cited several news programs, there is a full-length movie out about WWASPS and a feature film about the industry (Name anyone?  It escapes me) written by one of its victims that enjoyed dozens of film festival awards.  Then you have ISACCORP, Fornits, AntiWWASP, ASTART, etc, etc, etc.  All of these sources, according to The Who, are not credible.

Remember, this is the same guy who argued that it was just fine for HLA to operate as it was (no nurse, no licensed providers or teachers, etc), even though it was operating in a clearly illegal fashion.  In fact, he argued ad nauseum in the same manner as he is doing here, that there was no evidence of wrongdoing and nothing wrong about HLA's behavior.  

HLA has since been raided by state agencies, cited by them, sued by victims and will be closing its doors shortly, going down as one of the most fraudulent and abusive facilities thusfar exposed.  But The Who says HLA is "improving,"  "helping kids get on track," and operating "legally and reasonably."

The Who is demonstrably, provably wrong about almost everything he says.  However, no amount of evidence has ever deterred him from defending the most flagrant child abusers in the industry.

Bottom line:  The Who has no regard for the welfare of children and promotes their abuse for cash.

Hmmmm.. so you think I profit from this?  That would be nice, it implies that I am good at what I do.    If they came out with a Reality series depicting kids having fun at TBS would you change your mind about them?
You are letting you disdain for some people and schools screw up you logic.  The good still far outweighs the bad at these schools.  If someone were to weigh the TBS's side by side to the public sector schools the safety scale would tip heavily towards the Private schools.  Every school out there is going to experience a suicide attempt, drug overdose, sexual abuse by a superior, death etc..  It is just a matter of time, the trick is to determine which are safer, what policies they have in place and the best match for ones child.

Oversight is great, but this isnt the whole answer.  Take a look at our public sector, are our kids safe in the public school system?  No.  Are they safer in a TBS setting, it is ovwewhelmingly Yes !!  But unfortunately we hear from more of the unhappy experiences than the successful ones.

Just ask anyone in a customer service department of any store how many people call in to say how happy they are with their new purchase.  You would hear 99% who call are unhappy.  Does this mean 99% of the people who purchase products are unhappy with their purchase?  
Do you see my point?
We cant take a full spectrum across the board position based on a few scattered data points.
Sorry DJ its just not there.

[TheWho]

TheWho wrote:

Well the TV thing, just cant see. No way am I going to base my decisions on a reality series. I cant believe I am hearing this. I get called for ignoring facts and then we see a post of a utube clip from england and start backing your positions with Reality series on TV.

So you're saying that an Aspen facility would deliberately cause bodily harm - in violation of their policy - to a patient to allow a TV program to get ratings?  That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.  Sorry, but this type of violence against children is their policy, not something they decided in an ad hoc fashion to do in front of the camera.  That's ridiculous.

This is how these places operate.  When psychological coercion doesn't work, they use physical coercion.  Nothing new there;it's well documented.  The program does indeed use force to deal with patients.  A clever producer caught it on film and used it to promote a TV show.  What in the world does that have to do with the practice being in place at the facility?  Physical abuse of patients is wrong whether it's caught on film or not.  

This is simply prima-facie evidence that it does, in fact, happen at Aspen facilities.  TheWho blames the TV producer for the abuse inflicted on a child by staff that were captured on film doing it of their own volition.

This is one seriously addled brain we're dealing with here, folks.  In any case, it's a useful look into the disturbing psychology of program parents.  I bet he blames CNN for the roadside bombs in Iraq, too. :roll:

Ha Ha, so now I am responsible because I blame the producers.  This is rich.

Hey, Its TV!!.  We both know if it was a show depicting the success of kids and a followup series on how well they did in college, it would be boring as hell and get canceled and you would be screaming, this isnt true, were is the abuse!!  This is so fake !!

or would you change your opinion and start believing these schools add value?

I think I know your answer.

[Troll Control]

Which Aspen Camp did thoses shots come from?  What time frame?Everyone in both clips have British accents..... Hmmmm.

The industry as a whole has been thriving and improving.  When I left in June we were in a discussion on the improvements made at one of the TBS (ASR) and how successful their graduates were.  There just isn?t any mounting evidence, none, that I have seen.  I have read accounts of kids that faired poorly and some that got hurt.  But this applies to all institutions that oversee children.  Our own public school system is standing by allowing our kids to get raped by teachers, beat up by classmates and shot?? The rape is probably not all reported either, just the tip of the ice berg and this is happening within systems designed to keep our kids safe and have multiple levels of oversight.

The problems TBS's are experiencing pales in comparison.  The kids are being sent there to keep them safe and get them back on track and it is working!!!  Kids get turned around and get back on track.  Not all schools employ the best people or procedures and I would not recommend them and in the same way I would not recommend sending your kids to some public school systems.  I expect that parents review each school before choosing the best place for thier child.

I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc.  Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids.  Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does.  Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US.  I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!

:wstupid:  ::bangin::

So sorry...  I didn't realize you were deaf and blind.  My apologies.

I believe AA cited several news programs, there is a full-length movie out about WWASPS and a feature film about the industry (Name anyone?  It escapes me) written by one of its victims that enjoyed dozens of film festival awards.  Then you have ISACCORP, Fornits, AntiWWASP, ASTART, etc, etc, etc.  All of these sources, according to The Who, are not credible.

Remember, this is the same guy who argued that it was just fine for HLA to operate as it was (no nurse, no licensed providers or teachers, etc), even though it was operating in a clearly illegal fashion.  In fact, he argued ad nauseum in the same manner as he is doing here, that there was no evidence of wrongdoing and nothing wrong about HLA's behavior.  

HLA has since been raided by state agencies, cited by them, sued by victims and will be closing its doors shortly, going down as one of the most fraudulent and abusive facilities thusfar exposed.  But The Who says HLA is "improving,"  "helping kids get on track," and operating "legally and reasonably."

The Who is demonstrably, provably wrong about almost everything he says.  However, no amount of evidence has ever deterred him from defending the most flagrant child abusers in the industry.

Bottom line:  The Who has no regard for the welfare of children and promotes their abuse for cash.

Hmmmm.. so you think I profit from this?  I NEVER SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING THIS STATEMENT That would be nice, it implies that I am good at what I do.    If they came out with a Reality series depicting kids having fun at TBS would you change your mind about them?
You are letting you disdain for some people and schools screw up you logic. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT LOGIC IS, SIR. The good still far outweighs the bad at these schools. CITE YOUR SOURCES, PLEASE If someone were to weigh the TBS's side by side to the public sector schools the safety scale would tip heavily towards the Private schools.CITE YOUR SOURCES, PLEASE  Every school out there is going to experience a suicide attempt, drug overdose, sexual abuse by a superior, death etc..  It is just a matter of time, the trick is to determine which are safer, what policies they have in place and the best match for ones child.

Oversight is great, but this isnt the whole answer.  Take a look at our public sector, are our kids safe in the public school system?  No.  Are they safer in a TBS setting, it is ovwewhelmingly Yes !!CITE YOUR SOURCES, PLEASE  But unfortunately we hear from more of the unhappy experiences than the successful ones.

Just ask anyone in a customer service department of any store how many people call in to say how happy they are with their new purchase.  You would hear 99% who call are unhappy.  Does this mean 99% of the people who purchase products are unhappy with their purchase?  
Do you see my point?NO, I REALLY DON'T.  I DON'T COMPARE MENTAL HEALTH CARE FOR CHILDREN WITH PRODUCTS AS YOU DO.  SEE "FALSE ANALOGY"
We cant take a full spectrum across the board position based on a few scattered data points.BUT YOU JUST DREW AN ACCROSS THE BOARD CONCLUSION BASED ON ZERO DATA AND I BASE MY POSITION ON OVER TEN YEARS' EXPERIENCE WORKING INSIDE THE INDUSTRY AS WELL AS COPIUS DATA FROM ENFORCEMENT AGANCIES.  WHY IS IT OK FOR YOU TO DO THIS WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY ADMONISHING OTHERS FOR YOUR PRACTICE?  SEE "HYPOCRITE."
Sorry DJ its just not there.JUST BECAUSE YOU KEEP SAYING IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S GOING TO BECOME TRUE AT SOME POINT.  YOU'RE JUST PLAIN WRONG.

Notations added in bold caps.

[Troll Control]

TheWho wrote:

Well the TV thing, just cant see. No way am I going to base my decisions on a reality series. I cant believe I am hearing this. I get called for ignoring facts and then we see a post of a utube clip from england and start backing your positions with Reality series on TV.

So you're saying that an Aspen facility would deliberately cause bodily harm - in violation of their policy - to a patient to allow a TV program to get ratings?  That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.  Sorry, but this type of violence against children is their policy, not something they decided in an ad hoc fashion to do in front of the camera.  That's ridiculous.

This is how these places operate.  When psychological coercion doesn't work, they use physical coercion.  Nothing new there;it's well documented.  The program does indeed use force to deal with patients.  A clever producer caught it on film and used it to promote a TV show.  What in the world does that have to do with the practice being in place at the facility?  Physical abuse of patients is wrong whether it's caught on film or not.  

This is simply prima-facie evidence that it does, in fact, happen at Aspen facilities.  TheWho blames the TV producer for the abuse inflicted on a child by staff that were captured on film doing it of their own volition.

This is one seriously addled brain we're dealing with here, folks.  In any case, it's a useful look into the disturbing psychology of program parents.  I bet he blames CNN for the roadside bombs in Iraq, too. :roll:

Ha Ha, so now I am responsible because I blame the producers.  This is rich.

Hey, Its TV!!.  We both know if it was a show depicting the success of kids and a followup series on how well they did in college, it would be boring as hell and get canceled and you would be screaming, this isnt true, were is the abuse!!  This is so fake !!

or would you change your opinion and start believing these schools add value?

I think I know your answer.

All I want is your explanation why it's OK for Aspen facilities to physically abuse children.  You never explained how hurting kids "adds value."  Explain.

[TheWho]

DJ: says : The Who has no regard for the welfare of children and promotes their abuse for cash.

TheWho Says:  Hmmmm.. so you think I profit from this?

DJ Says:  I NEVER SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING THIS STATEMENT

I dont have to dig into your past posts or wait too long for you to start back peddling, now do I.

[Troll Control]

DJ: says : The Who has no regard for the welfare of children and promotes their abuse for cash.

TheWho Says:  Hmmmm.. so you think I profit from this?

DJ Says:  I NEVER SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING THIS STATEMENT

I dont have to dig into your past posts or wait too long for you to start back peddling, now do I.

You promote child abuse for cash.  Unfortunately for you, others get the cash and you just carry the water for them.  Again, read for comprehension.