Author Topic: The Who  (Read 792980 times)

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Offline TheWho

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The Who
« Reply #345 on: January 10, 2007, 11:49:08 PM »
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Yet even with the mounting evidence against Aspen you seem rather reluctant to accept that they aren't quite what you have billed them to be.

I havent read any mounting evidence, not sure where the abuse occured or when.  Is this an isolated incident within one camp?  or is this happening and standard procedure through out the Aspen organization?
I cant change my opinion based on a couple utube clips and I wouldnt expect you to if they had one on a success story and how a life was changed for the better because of Aspen.
I think mounting evidence takes time and I just havent seen that yet.

In a rational society, this one video would be enough to shut them down (or at least land those two thugs and their supervisors in jail). How many kids tortured kids does it take to constitute 'mounting evidence?'

And in this post you are pretty much lying. The evidence does not stop at a couple of youtube clips. It also consists of a 60 Minutes Documentary, several news articles and the statements of dozens of former program attendees on this site and others. And don't deny you are not aware of this evidence. You have been around here too long for that to be plausible.


Why do you jump to accusing someone of lying.....See this is why I take many of your positions with a grain of salt.  You take a little info and assume alot out of it.  I saw 2 utube clips that I believe Niles posted a few pages back and asked if I saw them, yes I saw them today for the first time.  This is the first I have seen with this "Wrist Twisting technique"  and the first I have seen in a Aspen Program, the first time I have discussed this.   I have been out of the country for a good part of last year so I havent seen much evidence lately.  The tapes were not dated so I dont know if they have or could have taken action since.  Did this occur over the past month or so?    I think I asked,Is this isolated to one program?  I just havent seen mounting evidence against Aspen, I am sorry.  Tomorrow I will look for the news articles on the use of this technigue at Aspen and get up to speed. !!!
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Offline Deborah

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The Who
« Reply #346 on: January 10, 2007, 11:50:01 PM »
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
In a rational society, this one video would be enough to shut them down (or at least land those two thugs and their supervisors in jail). How many kids tortured kids does it take to constitute 'mounting evidence?'


Is that form of 'treatment' even allowed in legit Psych Wards? I don't think so. Could we get a statement on that from the APA?
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #347 on: January 10, 2007, 11:51:39 PM »
Ok Deb and anyone else who wants the brief study guide:
Trevor was a kid from London. he was one of the "stars" of the programme and according to the book extremely well liked by the other kids.
On a visit home he took so much heroin and coke in some kind of concotion that he nearly died. He wnet back to the programme was was totally contrite. They busted him down a level away from the vkids who had apparently become really close friends. As he left the room he yelled and i cant remember the exact quote -this programme has fucked me over-
Tanner was a psudenom (will try and dig up the book which memorialises him @ the back) He made it to a really good college for kids with musical talent. He also graduated the programme with barely a hiccup. he died of some kind of overdose (alcohol i think) and was not found for some time. His father according to the local papers had a tough time recovering from the grief and in spite of being an ex athlete and thus pretty well off, robbed a jewellery shop.

the other kids who he focused more intensely on were:

 Tyrone, an almost angelic black kid from the tough side of New York who wagged school extensively and whose mum was determined he get an education. This woman fought tooth and nail to get him into ASR in part for their academics and because she though he suffered from depression. When the parents had to write an "impact" letter hers was quite loving and emphasised that he did not give her any trouble and that she just wanted him to do better than his father who was a small time crook. ASR told her that the letter was not harsh enough and made her write a different one.

Bianca a girl whose devoutly catholic mother died when she was 10. She had a bad forbidden boyfriend who she snuck out to see a lot. They also got cuaght getting hot and heavy in the back of a cinema. So her dad panicked and set her to Wilderness and ASR. in spite of her highly Catholic upbringing and beliefs ASR forced her to write a letter to her dad confessing her worse sexual "sins" and also to publically confess. (perhaps a catholic upbrining is necessary to understand why this is horrific but it really is not good) She got pregnant in her second yr of University.

DJ was a hyperactive kid with neurotic parents who had been on a cocktail of drugs since he was 5. He had one of those "you cant tell me what to do" fights with his mum and ran away for a grand total of 12 hours before ringing home! His worst vice was that he smoked tobacco a few times. it was clear that he hated every second of ASR
Apparently though he didnt go off the rails afterward.

mary Ellen was a girl from Texas with an eating disorder and who took way too many drugs. She seemed to buy into the programme totally by the end. But then so did Bianca and it did not go too well for her.

there were many peripheral characters and my thesis is that he would have looked at these kids more but it became too embarrasing to have so many that fucked up! by focusing on just 4 two of whome were pretty good kids to begin with ASR looked better than if we had of seen the post prog fuck ups of the entire group!
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Offline egypt has pyramids

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The Who
« Reply #348 on: January 10, 2007, 11:54:07 PM »
What I saw on the videos was relatively mild. The reality of programs and psych hospitals involves a lot more screaming, and a lot more struggling.

The british accent kind of caught me off guard, what was that about? Was that a clip from brat camp?
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Offline Nihilanthic

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The Who
« Reply #349 on: January 11, 2007, 09:12:40 AM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
In a rational society, this one video would be enough to shut them down (or at least land those two thugs and their supervisors in jail). How many kids tortured kids does it take to constitute 'mounting evidence?'

Is that form of 'treatment' even allowed in legit Psych Wards? I don't think so. Could we get a statement on that from the APA?


Does the APA have any teeth anyway?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Troll Control

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The Who
« Reply #350 on: January 11, 2007, 09:40:25 AM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Yet even with the mounting evidence against Aspen you seem rather reluctant to accept that they aren't quite what you have billed them to be.

I havent read any mounting evidence, not sure where the abuse occured or when.  Is this an isolated incident within one camp?  or is this happening and standard procedure through out the Aspen organization?
I cant change my opinion based on a couple utube clips and I wouldnt expect you to if they had one on a success story and how a life was changed for the better because of Aspen.
I think mounting evidence takes time and I just havent seen that yet.


This guy acts like these deplorable events happen in a vacuum.  He's been given several first-hand accounts from ASR kids who were indeed abused, some before and some after he imprisoned his child there.

AA, you're dead on the money that The Who is lying about the evidence surrounding abuse at Aspen, because he has been shown a great amount of evidence in the form of personal accounts, news stories and accounts of staff members.  He just chooses to ignore it.

"Holocaust?  LOL!  Are you kidding?  I haven't seen any mounting evidence of that.  I have friends who are Jewish and they're still alive!" :roll:
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Offline Nihilanthic

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The Who
« Reply #351 on: January 11, 2007, 09:41:40 AM »
I love how he says "well if this has been going on after 30 years surely any problems would have surfaced by now!" on FORNITS.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline TheWho

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TBS Safety
« Reply #352 on: January 11, 2007, 10:08:15 AM »
Which Aspen Camp did thoses shots come from?  What time frame?Everyone in both clips have British accents..... Hmmmm.

The industry as a whole has been thriving and improving.  When I left in June we were in a discussion on the improvements made at one of the TBS (ASR) and how successful their graduates were.  There just isn?t any mounting evidence, none, that I have seen.  I have read accounts of kids that faired poorly and some that got hurt.  But this applies to all institutions that oversee children.  Our own public school system is standing by allowing our kids to get raped by teachers, beat up by classmates and shot?? The rape is probably not all reported either, just the tip of the ice berg and this is happening within systems designed to keep our kids safe and have multiple levels of oversight.

The problems TBS's are experiencing pales in comparison.  The kids are being sent there to keep them safe and get them back on track and it is working!!!  Kids get turned around and get back on track.  Not all schools employ the best people or procedures and I would not recommend them and in the same way I would not recommend sending your kids to some public school systems.  I expect that parents review each school before choosing the best place for thier child.

I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc.  Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids.  Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does.  Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US.  I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!
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Offline Nihilanthic

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The Who
« Reply #353 on: January 11, 2007, 10:09:46 AM »
Dear Who,

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?f=37 <- links to "Brat Camp" forum on Fornits, which is about... BRATCAMP. Bratcamp was a TV show where BRITISH KIDS got sent to Aspen programs (aka a "Brat camp") to get 'fixed'.

Love,
Everyone who isn't like a year behind.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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The Who
« Reply #354 on: January 11, 2007, 10:17:52 AM »
I now know who TheWho is.

There is only one guy with his skill at not letting the facts interfere with his belief system and public statements, and that is Mohammed Said al-Sahaf.

Can you tell us if there are American troops in Baghdad yet?
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Offline Anonymous

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The Who
« Reply #355 on: January 11, 2007, 10:37:17 AM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Again with the ASR Who. i actually took your advice and read What it takes to pull me through. The ASR that Dave marcus described sounded like a shit hole! Pehaps you can answer these questions
-Was it wise to send an anorexic drug addict on a physically demanding Wilderness trek?
-if ASR was so wonderful why did Ashley try to kill herself when she got the fantastic news they would keep her there another year?
-Why was every kid strip searched? Tyrone had not even tried dope or any other drug, neither had DJ
-Do you think Trevor, the popular English Lad was saved by ASR? His London visit did not really go so well did it?
-And what of Trevors now dead American mate Tanner. i wonder what his poor parents think of ASR? Hi dad may now be coherent. he was initially so grief stricken that he went over the deepend and robbed the local jeweller!
-Do you have any insight into the fact that marcus devoted 1 line to the  enthusiastic young English teacher leaving after one year saying the only thing she liked about the place was the kids?
-Did it surprise you that DJ a kid who was kind of young and naive for his age felt the need to bullshit about how "bad" he was when he was around older more sophisticated boys? Do you think lumping him in with such kids was helpful. If so why?


Excellent questions.  I wonder if he'll answer these.
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Offline Anonymous

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The Who
« Reply #356 on: January 11, 2007, 10:38:51 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Excellent questions.  I wonder if he'll answer these.

You looking for a wager? Well all right then!
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Offline TheWho

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The Who
« Reply #357 on: January 11, 2007, 10:54:40 AM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Dear Who,

BRATCAMP. Bratcamp was a TV show where BRITISH KIDS got sent to Aspen programs (aka a "Brat camp") to get 'fixed'.

Love,
Everyone who isn't like a year behind.


Oh, Come on a TV show?  You really expect anyone to form an opinion based on Television?  I have never seen it, but I am sure that they didn?t spend much footage on the kids doing well getting along playing cards or growing by their experience (It would be too Boring!!)  Lets see some sensationalism, lets mix it up, prod them with a sharp stick we need to keep the viewers interested and the ratings up.  You think the show ? Real World? would still be on if they cut out all the fights, drinking binges, hot tub scenes and confrontations and just aired the days they stayed home hung over, playing cards and drinking orange juice?  Reality Television is designed to intentionally spark controversy.
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: TBS Safety
« Reply #358 on: January 11, 2007, 11:02:32 AM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Which Aspen Camp did thoses shots come from?  What time frame?Everyone in both clips have British accents..... Hmmmm.

The industry as a whole has been thriving and improving.  When I left in June we were in a discussion on the improvements made at one of the TBS (ASR) and how successful their graduates were.  There just isn?t any mounting evidence, none, that I have seen.  I have read accounts of kids that faired poorly and some that got hurt.  But this applies to all institutions that oversee children.  Our own public school system is standing by allowing our kids to get raped by teachers, beat up by classmates and shot?? The rape is probably not all reported either, just the tip of the ice berg and this is happening within systems designed to keep our kids safe and have multiple levels of oversight.

The problems TBS's are experiencing pales in comparison.  The kids are being sent there to keep them safe and get them back on track and it is working!!!  Kids get turned around and get back on track.  Not all schools employ the best people or procedures and I would not recommend them and in the same way I would not recommend sending your kids to some public school systems.  I expect that parents review each school before choosing the best place for thier child.

I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc.  Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids.  Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does.  Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US.  I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!
:wstupid:  ::bangin::

So sorry...  I didn't realize you were deaf and blind.  My apologies.

I believe AA cited several news programs, there is a full-length movie out about WWASPS and a feature film about the industry (Name anyone?  It escapes me) written by one of its victims that enjoyed dozens of film festival awards.  Then you have ISACCORP, Fornits, AntiWWASP, ASTART, etc, etc, etc.  All of these sources, according to The Who, are not credible.

Remember, this is the same guy who argued that it was just fine for HLA to operate as it was (no nurse, no licensed providers or teachers, etc), even though it was operating in a clearly illegal fashion.  In fact, he argued ad nauseum in the same manner as he is doing here, that there was no evidence of wrongdoing and nothing wrong about HLA's behavior.  

HLA has since been raided by state agencies, cited by them, sued by victims and will be closing its doors shortly, going down as one of the most fraudulent and abusive facilities thusfar exposed.  But The Who says HLA is "improving,"  "helping kids get on track," and operating "legally and reasonably."

The Who is demonstrably, provably wrong about almost everything he says.  However, no amount of evidence has ever deterred him from defending the most flagrant child abusers in the industry.

Bottom line:  The Who has no regard for the welfare of children and promotes their abuse for cash.
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Offline Troll Control

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The Who
« Reply #359 on: January 11, 2007, 11:09:30 AM »
Quote
The Who wrote:


Oh, Come on a TV show? You really expect anyone to form an opinion based on Television? I have never seen it, but I am sure that they didn?t spend much footage on the kids doing well getting along playing cards or growing by their experience (It would be too Boring!!) Lets see some sensationalism, lets mix it up, prod them with a sharp stick we need to keep the viewers interested and the ratings up. You think the show ? Real World? would still be on if they cut out all the fights, drinking binges, hot tub scenes and confrontations and just aired the days they stayed home hung over, playing cards and drinking orange juice? Reality Television is designed to intentionally spark controversy.


Translation:  "If I didn't personally witness it with my own two eyes IT NEVER HAPPENED.
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