On 2006-01-06 18:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"JOINTLY
Thank you , that was my point. The Staffer is responsible only if he was Trained and failed to use his training !!! The Corporation (what ever it happens to be) is always responsible for its employees actions , up to a point."
I completely disagree. I have had three years of Hapkido and two years of Taikwondo. Hapkido deals with a lot of the joint locks typically used to restrain people; law enforcement and facilities have cribbed a lot of the techniques they use from Hapkido.
When you lay hands on a child, or an adult patient who is mentally incompetent, you are responsible for knowing what the hell you are doing and not hurting that person.
You are especially responsible if you accept money for work where you know you may be expected to lay hands on children or mentally incompetent adults.
Martial arts studios do not hide in deep dark alleys. Proper training in how to physically control someone without hurting them is more than available.
If you accept such a job, you are effing responsible.
Any sane adult is absolutely responsible for what they do and the results when they lay hands on a child or a mentally incompetent adult.
Sometimes people get hurt or even killed in self-defense situations where the attacker is using lethal forc.
[Most common legal definition of lethal force: force that is right then immediately about to kill or seriously injure the person defending themselves (or defending someone else). It includes force strong enough to break bones, for example.]
I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about the restraint of an hysterical or enraged person who is using less than lethal force.
If you use lethal force, and excessively forceful restraint *is* lethal force, against someone who isn't using lethal force against you, you are absolutely responsible for what you do to that other person.
"I wasn't properly trained" is no damned excuse.
Proper training is readily available from multiple private sources all over the place. Any judo master or multi-dan black belt, any hapkido master or multi-dan black belt, can teach you fairly easily how to avoid killing another human being, large or small, when you restrain them. Black belts in these arts are a dime a dozen in any decent sized city, and anyone who won't take a greyhound out for a week to get a short course of tips doesn't have any business working in a job where they might have to restrain someone.
The common excuse used is something along the lines that the people who take these jobs don't get paid much and are too stupid to know they are dangerous to the lives of their charges.
Ignorance of the risk doesn't protect stupid people who punch someone straight in the chest, or the wrong place on the head, in a bar fight and kill the other guy. Taking a job where you have to physically lay hands on people is just like getting in a bar fight---by making that choice, you assume the risk for the damage you do.
Not trained right is no damned excuse.
If you take such a job, it is your responsibility to find out about the risk and deal with them regardless of whether your employer is negligent or not.
The employer's negligence is no excuse for the employee's negligence.
If I take a job driving a semi and the company I drive for doesn't make sure I have a commercial driver's license or can drive a semi safely, and I run over a compact car on the interstate and kill the occupants, I'm going up for vehicular homicide, because it was *my responsibility* as part of taking up that activity to ensure I did so *safely*.
Stupidity is no excuse for killing somebody.
Julie
