Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-30 11:52:00, Anonymous wrote:

If what you say is true the cuffs will go on any minute:



Lets wait and See"

Uh huh.  Sure.  The place I was in went on abusing kids for years even though reports of abuse were rampant.  Hell, a couple of kids actually received judgements against these creeps and still nothing was done.  Not until boatloads of us started talking about what really went on behind closed doors did anyone even start to pay attention and shut it down.  By that time the cancer had grown from one program in one state to many, many programs in various states around the country.

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-30 14:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-12-30 11:52:00, Anonymous wrote:


If what you say is true the cuffs will go on any minute:





Lets wait and See"

Uh huh.  Sure.  The place I was in went on abusing kids for years even though reports of abuse were rampant.  Hell, a couple of kids actually received judgements against these creeps and still nothing was done.  Not until boatloads of us started talking about what really went on behind closed doors did anyone even start to pay attention and shut it down.  By that time the cancer had grown from one program in one state to many, many programs in various states around the country."

Looks like you have your mind made up, so the results will not matter to you much.  There are some of us who want to make a difference and implement some changes based on results of the investigation.  It seems like there are other who just want to blindly shut down every school in America without giving thought to what will replace them.

[TheWho]

well, let's see if the Tx DFPS does their job. doesn't look good, given that there are previous reviews 'pending' for as long as two years. what's the hold up?

I have heard the school has petitioned the courts to either set a court date or drop the charges.  The school wants to move forward.

what happens when all the abusive hell holes are closed and the state has no where to place foster kids?

The good ones will still be open, which will creat a need and set an example for programs that work and those which dont work.  The ones that dont work will go out of business eventually, the good ones will have to expand to respond to demand.

[Anonymous]

There are some of us who want to make a difference and implement some changes based on results of the investigation.>>>>

there are ample laws.
laws that can't be/ aren't enforced.
what new 'magical' law will you advocate for that might end the death of children under the guise of 'therapy'?
seriously, how do you propose to force programs to operate ethically.
what do you propose that might force the state to do the job they are sanctioned with?
you got a facility with numerous violations around illegal restraints, a kid is dead due to restraint, two year old 'pending' violations, and the state hasn't pulled the kids they placed there and will probably continue to place there.

hell, they shut down Woodside Trails for 'multiple violations' of regs... NO deaths.

is the state playing favorites?

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#57566
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 88&forum=9

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-30 22:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"There are some of us who want to make a difference and implement some changes based on results of the investigation.>>>>



there are ample laws.

laws that can't be/ aren't enforced.

what new 'magical' law will you advocate for that might end the death of children under the guise of 'therapy'?

seriously, how do you propose to force programs to operate ethically.

what do you propose that might force the state to do the job they are sanctioned with?

you got a facility with numerous violations around illegal restraints, a kid is dead due to restraint, two year old 'pending' violations, and the state hasn't pulled the kids they placed there and will probably continue to place there.



hell, they shut down Woodside Trails for 'multiple violations' of regs... NO deaths.



is the state playing favorites?



http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#57566

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0

http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 88&forum=9"

Its not clear what you propose to do.  We have a school with pending violations that the school is pushing to get resolved and the state is dragging its feet.  The school has been cleared in their past cases.
The schools clearly need to be improved and monitored.  They should contnue to be monitored and improved forever, in my opinion.
The links you provided were for a different school, not sure what the intent was, I can only speculate (maybe same owners)?

If there are laws on the books that are being ignored then we should start there, maybe.

[Anonymous]

Different school? Nope.
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/ ... fid=110730

Operation Details
You may click on the question mark image ( ) to view the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) page.

 Operation Number: 254498
Operation Type: Residential Treatment Center  
Operation/Caregiver Name: STAR RANCH RTC
Location Address: 149 Camp Scenic Loop
INGRAM, TX 78025  
Mailing Address: 149 CAMP SCENIC LOOP
INGRAM, TX 78025  
Phone Number: 830-367-4868
County: KERR
Website Address: http://www.starranch.org
Email Address: thults@starranch.org
Administrator/Director Name: PAUL BROUSE
Type of Issuance: Full Permit
Issuance Date: 11/20/1993  
Conditions on Permit:    No
Days of Operation: N/A
Total Capacity: 36
Licensed to Serve Ages: 7 - 17

Scroll down for details of violations and pending decisions.

The intent is to show that this program has had some significant violations of regulations, and some specifically related to restraint. Parents should have access to this information, but frequently don't know how to find it. The link is accurate.
This should be brought to the DA's attention as well as the court.

What's your intent?   Denial?

[Troll Control]

On 2005-12-31 09:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-12-30 22:36:00, Anonymous wrote:


"There are some of us who want to make a difference and implement some changes based on results of the investigation.>>>>





there are ample laws.


laws that can't be/ aren't enforced.


what new 'magical' law will you advocate for that might end the death of children under the guise of 'therapy'?


seriously, how do you propose to force programs to operate ethically.


what do you propose that might force the state to do the job they are sanctioned with?


you got a facility with numerous violations around illegal restraints, a kid is dead due to restraint, two year old 'pending' violations, and the state hasn't pulled the kids they placed there and will probably continue to place there.





hell, they shut down Woodside Trails for 'multiple violations' of regs... NO deaths.





is the state playing favorites?





http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#57566


http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0


http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 88&forum=9"

Its not clear what you propose to do.  We have a school with pending violations that the school is pushing to get resolved and the state is dragging its feet.  The school has been cleared in their past cases.

The schools clearly need to be improved and monitored.  They should contnue to be monitored and improved forever, in my opinion.

The links you provided were for a different school, not sure what the intent was, I can only speculate (maybe same owners)?



If there are laws on the books that are being ignored then we should start there, maybe."

Why do you call this place a "school"?  It clearly is NOT a school.  It's a RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTER where kids are warehoused, not educated.

[TheWho]

What's your intent? Denial?

My intent is to discover what happened the day the boy died and what will be done to correct the cause in the future (once the cause is known).
There are those who want to point fingers prematurely, shoot the counselor, shut every school down etc.
Shutting schools down doesnt work, they just reopen someplace else.
Most schools have good intent, when it comes to the kids, but I believe without oversight and regulation the stock holders and/principles push for more and more profits each year and the kids needs may get overlooked in certain areas like training, hiring qualified people etc.

I truly believe if we identify the direct cause and work on correcting it we will do future kids a great service.

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-31 10:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-12-31 09:47:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2005-12-30 22:36:00, Anonymous wrote:



"There are some of us who want to make a difference and implement some changes based on results of the investigation.>>>>







there are ample laws.



laws that can't be/ aren't enforced.



what new 'magical' law will you advocate for that might end the death of children under the guise of 'therapy'?



seriously, how do you propose to force programs to operate ethically.



what do you propose that might force the state to do the job they are sanctioned with?



you got a facility with numerous violations around illegal restraints, a kid is dead due to restraint, two year old 'pending' violations, and the state hasn't pulled the kids they placed there and will probably continue to place there.







hell, they shut down Woodside Trails for 'multiple violations' of regs... NO deaths.







is the state playing favorites?







http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#57566



http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0



http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 88&forum=9"

Its not clear what you propose to do.  We have a school with pending violations that the school is pushing to get resolved and the state is dragging its feet.  The school has been cleared in their past cases.


The schools clearly need to be improved and monitored.  They should contnue to be monitored and improved forever, in my opinion.


The links you provided were for a different school, not sure what the intent was, I can only speculate (maybe same owners)?





If there are laws on the books that are being ignored then we should start there, maybe."

Why do you call this place a "school"?  It clearly is NOT a school.  It's a RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTER where kids are warehoused, not educated."

That works --- remove the word ,School and insert RTC or Boarding School.  It really applies to any institution which have kids or the elderly

[Troll Control]

On 2005-12-31 15:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

What's your intent? Denial?

My intent is to discover what happened the day the boy died and what will be done to correct the cause in the future (once the cause is known).

There are those who want to point fingers prematurely, shoot the counselor, shut every school down etc.

Shutting schools down doesnt work, they just reopen someplace else.

Most schools have good intent, when it comes to the kids, but I believe without oversight and regulation the stock holders and/principles push for more and more profits each year and the kids needs may get overlooked in certain areas like training, hiring qualified people etc.



I truly believe if we identify the direct cause and work on correcting it we will do future kids a great service."

Once again, this place is NOT A SCHOOL.  It is an RTC as indicated on their license.

Calling RTC's "schools" is part of the problem.  Continuing to call it a school misrepresents its nature.  These RTC's get a significant portion of their patients by falsely claiming to be "boarding schools" or "specialty schools" thereby hoodwinking parents into thinking that the place they sent their kid to is a "school."

By continuing to do so, even after being corrected several times and seeing their status on their DFPS license posted earlier, you perpetuate the problem.  This is a common tactic of program supporters and makes your comments look even more suspect than they already do.

Calling Star Ranch a "school" is misleading, incorrect and specious.  We don't need to wait for investigation results to tell this simple truth.  What is your reason for insisting it is a school when it is clearly a psychiatric facility?

[Anonymous]

<<>>

Give it a rest. In your defense, perhaps you're new to this industry.
This any many other BM programs where kids have died were licensed with state oversight and were supposed to follow existing regulations.

While 'profit before people' (kids in this case) is common, this facility was required by law to ensure that its employees were properly trained and following procedures. If it's more than they can handle, then they should get out of the business.

 
>>>I truly believe if we identify the direct cause and work on correcting it we will do future kids a great service.<<<

The direct cause is known. Suffocation by restraint.
Work on correcting it?
If they can't train their employees to safely execute a restraint, how will they train them to care about the kids and practice de-escalation techniques. That is the solution- not replacing it with a different restraint.
You can't legislate genuine care and positive regard. Had this staff been following state regulations, the issue may never have escalated to the 'need' for restraint.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-12-31 16:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"<<>>



Give it a rest. In your defense, perhaps you're new to this industry.

This any many other BM programs where kids have died were licensed with state oversight and were supposed to follow existing regulations.



While 'profit before people' (kids in this case) is common, this facility was required by law to ensure that its employees were properly trained and following procedures. If it's more than they can handle, then they should get out of the business.



 

>>>I truly believe if we identify the direct cause and work on correcting it we will do future kids a great service.<<<



The direct cause is known. Suffocation by restraint.

Work on correcting it?

If they can't train their employees to safely execute a restraint, how will they train them to care about the kids and practice de-escalation techniques. That is the solution- not replacing it with a different restraint.

You can't legislate genuine care and positive regard. Had this staff been following state regulations, the issue may never have escalated to the 'need' for restraint.





"

Spot on.  Nicely done.

[TheWho]

Calling Star Ranch a "school" is misleading, incorrect and specious. We don't need to wait for investigation results to tell this simple truth. What is your reason for insisting it is a school when it is clearly a psychiatric facility?

Sorry I dont see the Damage done.  Insert "RTC" where "School" is,  it really applies to both, but that is trivial right now.  It appears your intent here is to inform parents of the damage Star Ranch has done to kids by supplying past info, which is great.

I am more interested in applying change to make it safer for future children.

We don't need to wait for investigation results to tell this simple truth.

Very disturbing statement, (Smacks of 1950's KKK Mentality) shows you have closed your mind to learning any further details and the sign you are hold up to the parents will be soon outdated.
I would suggest, to further your cause, to apply present and future findings to you agenda, the parents will see right thru to your personal agenda eventually.

You need to be backed by facts or no one will listen

[TheWho]

The direct cause is known. Suffocation by restraint.
Work on correcting it?
If they can't train their employees to safely execute a restraint, how will they train them to care about the kids and practice de-escalation techniques. That is the solution- not replacing it with a different restraint.
You can't legislate genuine care and positive regard. Had this staff been following state regulations, the issue may never have escalated to the 'need' for restraint.

If all this is true than the solution would seem to be "push to elliminate Restraints" and train them to care about the kids and practice de-escalation techniques maybe by state regulation , verifying training, state oversight in hiring etc.  
But I think something could be done

[Troll Control]

On 2005-12-31 16:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

Calling Star Ranch a "school" is misleading, incorrect and specious. We don't need to wait for investigation results to tell this simple truth. What is your reason for insisting it is a school when it is clearly a psychiatric facility?

Sorry I dont see the Damage done.  Insert "RTC" where "School" is,  it really applies to both, but that is trivial right now.  It appears your intent here is to inform parents of the damage Star Ranch has done to kids by supplying past info, which is great.



I am more interested in applying change to make it safer for future children.

We don't need to wait for investigation results to tell this simple truth.

Very disturbing statement, (Smacks of 1950's KKK Mentality) shows you have closed your mind to learning any further details and the sign you are hold up to the parents will be soon outdated.

I would suggest, to further your cause, to apply present and future findings to you agenda, the parents will see right thru to your personal agenda eventually.



You need to be backed by facts or no one will listen"

WHAT?  Are you kidding, dummy?  I said we don't need an investigation to see the simple truth that Star Ranch IS NOT A SCHOOL.  They are listed on their LICENSE as a RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTER, you idiot.  I'm KKK because I repeated what it says on THEIR OWN LICENSE?

Go back and read my post again, this time for comprehension instead of a stupid knee-jerk absurdity of a response.

Facts or no facts, it's crystal clear that you aren't listening to anybody but yourself. You, my ignorant friend, are looking dumber and dumber every time you post your twisted responses.

Now people who post PUBLICLY AVAILABLE BUSINESS INFORMATION and call it "the truth" are Kluckers?  You take the cake.