Author Topic: Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx  (Read 32727 times)

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Offline TheWho

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #120 on: December 31, 2005, 07:42:00 PM »
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We don't need to wait for investigation results to tell this simple truth


Okay I'll Bite,  We are Talking about "Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC"  inwhich there is a pending investigation.  Star Ranch has a few other pending against them which have gone unresolved for several years.  There were people who made up their minds and didnt want to wait for an investigation........

....... then you jump in and tweek because I used the word school instead of RTC and accusations and state there is no need for an investigation.  You really think we should take that as an investigation on whether or not it is a school or RTC?  Thats smoke!!!  It is what it is,  there is nothing to investigate, like you said its on the web site.  We can call it "Our Lady of the wicked agony academy" if you like, but calm down !!!!

You take a look at all the other statements made on this site and to get that excited over those two words makes me suspicious that you are a frigin Troll just getting us off subject.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #121 on: December 31, 2005, 07:47:00 PM »
If all this is true than the solution would seem to be "push to elliminate Restraints" and train them to care about the kids and practice de-escalation techniques maybe by state regulation , verifying training, state oversight in hiring etc. But I think something could be do<<<<

You're either an apologist attempting to divert others attention away from this, or genuinely ignorant.
I don't think you read the state regulations I posted.
State already discourages restraint except in EXTREME emergency, and requires that de-escalation should be used.

What's next???? There's no more 'something could be done's' to do.

BTW, who is the psych professional who approves the excessive use of restraint that appears to be happening at SR?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #122 on: December 31, 2005, 07:52:00 PM »
I understand what you're trying to say and in theory you may have a point, however, its difficult to trust "the system" when it comes to these places (can't really trust the system period but that's another discussion).  These kids are already viewed as inherently flawed, devious, lying little shits so its very difficult to get anyone to even listen let alone take the allegations seriously.  Parents, LE and gov't officials already have a predisposition with regards to these kids.  These programs  tell them that from day one.  Add to that the $$$$ issue coming into play.  Do some research into political contributions made by the owners and operators of these places.  That's one more incentive to sweep things under the rug.  Shit, in some towns in Utah RTCs, Behavior Mods, boot camps etc. are the major employers.  It happens more often than you would imagine.  Read this:  http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 150#160261

That's just one example.  There's more.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #123 on: December 31, 2005, 08:32:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-31 16:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"If all this is true than the solution would seem to be "push to elliminate Restraints" and train them to care about the kids and practice de-escalation techniques maybe by state regulation , verifying training, state oversight in hiring etc. But I think something could be do<<<<



You're either an apologist attempting to divert others attention away from this, or genuinely ignorant.

I don't think you read the state regulations I posted.

State already discourages restraint except in EXTREME emergency, and requires that de-escalation should be used.



What's next???? There's no more 'something could be done's' to do.



BTW, who is the psych professional who approves the excessive use of restraint that appears to be happening at SR?







"
???
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Offline TheWho

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #124 on: December 31, 2005, 08:52:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-31 16:52:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I understand what you're trying to say and in theory you may have a point, however, its difficult to trust "the system" when it comes to these places (can't really trust the system period but that's another discussion).  These kids are already viewed as inherently flawed, devious, lying little shits so its very difficult to get anyone to even listen let alone take the allegations seriously.  Parents, LE and gov't officials already have a predisposition with regards to these kids.  These programs  tell them that from day one.  Add to that the $$$$ issue coming into play.  Do some research into political contributions made by the owners and operators of these places.  That's one more incentive to sweep things under the rug.  Shit, in some towns in Utah RTCs, Behavior Mods, boot camps etc. are the major employers.  It happens more often than you would imagine.  Read this:  http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 150#160261



That's just one example.  There's more."

Well Thank you , I read your link and that is awlful.  I would hope this isnt the norm and we can do something to change things.  What is it that people are doing?  
I suggested in another section that we try to change things and I got ripped apart.  It seems like everyone is content on just being angry and yelling at parents who come here for help instead of trying to change things for future kids.  
I firmly believe that some parents are going to look for advice on raising their kids, its only natural, well intended people look for advice on everything, its the uninformed who think they can go it alone.  Especially if you dont have any support system or extended family to fall back on for advice you may see a need to seek advice professionally.
I have seen parents come on here for advice and receive: "You suck as parents for even considering getting help somewhere else, you should have been better parents"!!,,  "Cant you read, its not a School its a RTC, you must be totally ignorant".  "Let you daughter run away, the reason she wants to leave is because you stink as a parent"!!

Nobody seems to want to help others find a solution, just hatred and anger
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Offline Anonymous

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #125 on: December 31, 2005, 09:18:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-31 17:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
I suggested in another section that we try to change things and I got ripped apart.  It seems like everyone is content on just being angry and yelling at parents who come here for help instead of trying to change things for future kids.  

I firmly believe that some parents are going to look for advice on raising their kids, its only natural, well intended people look for advice on everything, its the uninformed who think they can go it alone.  Especially if you dont have any support system or extended family to fall back on for advice you may see a need to seek advice professionally.

I have seen parents come on here for advice and receive: "You suck as parents for even considering getting help somewhere else, you should have been better parents"!!,,  "Cant you read, its not a School its a RTC, you must be totally ignorant".  "Let you daughter run away, the reason she wants to leave is because you stink as a parent"!!

Nobody seems to want to help others find a solution, just hatred and anger"


No, now that's not really true.  I've been following that other thread.  Yes, there have been some comments that like that, Sometimes anger and frustration get the better of people but there have also been some well thought out, well reasoned responses.   I think most rational people can distinguish between them.

As to what to do, there are many schools of thought and no wrong answers.  We all (survivors of these places) are different and deal with situations differently.  If you don't like a particular form of activism or whatever you want to call it, fine, find your own niche.  While I understand and share your frustration, its really not my place to tell anyone how to conduct themselves.  I can make a suggestion, but if the the other person is dead set on doing it how they feel they need to then who am I to keep harping on them that they're wrong?  I'll just do my own thing that I feel comfortable with.

Get out there!  Do something...anything.  Write congressmen, email trusted journalists with info that you have, start a message board, write a Letter to the Editor of your local paper....or Utah's.  That is one strange state adn seem to have an inordinate amount of these schoools/RTCs/bootcamp/wilderness camp/emotional growth etc.  

From the description of this forum  "This is an uncensored, unmoderated forum where all viewpoints are both welcome and fair game for debate. It's a snap-shot of the Teen Help industry. Some days it's inspiring and heart-warming. Other day's it's pretty damned ugly. Enter at your own risk.

We've all been through a major mindfuck.  Sometimes that comes out in the way that people respond around here but more often than not there is a valid point to what they're saying if you can get passed how they're saying it.


HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!!   BE SAFE

 ::bigsmilebounce:: ::bigsmilebounce:: ::bigsmilebounce:: ::bwahaha2:: ::cheers:: ::cheers:: ::cheers:: ::cheers::
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Offline Anonymous

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #126 on: January 01, 2006, 01:46:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-12-31 17:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
I suggested in another section that we try to change things and I got ripped apart. It seems like everyone is content on just being angry and yelling at parents who come here for help instead of trying to change things for future kids.

I firmly believe that some parents are going to look for advice on raising their kids, its only natural, well intended people look for advice on everything, its the uninformed who think they can go it alone. Especially if you dont have any support system or extended family to fall back on for advice you may see a need to seek advice professionally.

I have seen parents come on here for advice and receive: "You suck as parents for even considering getting help somewhere else, you should have been better parents"!!,, "Cant you read, its not a School its a RTC, you must be totally ignorant". "Let you daughter run away, the reason she wants to leave is because you stink as a parent"!!

Nobody seems to want to help others find a solution, just hatred and anger"


Hehe... yeah we see this argument a lot from program trolls. Believe it or not, most of the posters here NO LONGER CARE if they offend parents or not. The 'solution' is to NOT SEND YOUR KID to the programs discussed here, that would be the simple solution to keeping your kid out of an abusive program, wouldn't ya say? Everything else is just gravy. So, NO, you cannot transfer responsibility to the posters here, that just doesn't fly. But we know program parents LOVE to transfer blame to everyone but themselves, so I'm sure we'll see many more posts such as yours.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #127 on: January 01, 2006, 08:44:00 AM »
I don't think they're a program troll, just new.  Here is another reason why its difficult to trust the authorities.  This story will be on Dateline NBC tonight.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10664038/


"A different kind of boot camp
In the Sonoran desert, suburban-soft Anthony experienced the particular joys of close order drill, calisthenics, and desert survival skills, always with a drill instructor by his side and a summer sun above.

Anthony and the others were treated like raw recruits? but not for anything like a modern army. Charles Long?s boot camp for wayward teens was not quite the same as others around the country.  His was an imagined imitation of something right out of the 19th century ? the Buffalo soldiers.

Long?s idea at the beginning, a dozen years ago, was for men like him to celebrate or ?re-enact,? as he would say, the famed black cavalry of the old west. He even gave himself a rank and got everybody to call him ?colonel.?

And with their prancing horses, campaign hats, and cavalry uniforms, the Buffalo soldiers were a favorite attraction in local parades. They even performed as escorts for visiting dignitaries, like then-governor George Bush and retired general Colin Powell.

At one event in 1994, Powell asked Long to help troubled kids.

Long: When you get a general to ask me to do something like that, I took great pride in it.

To a former Marine like Long, General Powell?s suggestion felt more like an order. So Long expanded his Buffalo soldier program to include at-risk kids.

He wasn?t trained for such a thing, wasn?t a counselor or therapist, but that didn?t seem like an obstacle to Long, who had his own ideas about the value of psycho-therapy.

Long: So, you prescribe a child medication? Oh, it?s okay because it?s legal? He?s still taking a drug. So that?s more acceptable to you than if he?s taking cocaine, crack or smoking marijuana?

Long?s idea of therapy consisted of drill instructions and desert isolation.

Long: Not only do we have rattlesnakes out here, we have mountain lions out here. We have coyotes out here. And because of the problem of us not having a great amount of rainfall the last couple of years, we have bears out here. Going into the desert is an opportunity, in my opinion, to face your demons. Jesus went there. And you want to know why I go there? He went there.

That?s the other thing: Long is very clearly a sincere evangelical Christian who considers himself a ?soldier of the Lord.?  

Morrison: What makes you a soldier of the Lord?

Long: In my opinion, I honestly believe, know, and can say, that by my faith in God, I?m here today.  

So, Long built his boot camp not solely on military discipline but also on old testament principles.

Long: It?s called "not sparing the rod," is what it?s called.

Morrison: You beat them?

Long: No, sir.  I do not beat children.  No, sir.  I have a paddle. Three strikes? And you?re subject to corporal punishment.  But you don?t get corporal punishment by a paddle unless your parents have said, ?Oh yeah, go ahead,? and give them permission for that.

Morrison: Right, but you use a paddle?

Long: Yes, sir.  And I?m the only one to do that.  

Morrison: Sometimes are they chained together...

Long: We have extreme volatile situations at times, that one of the ways to help get a child to calm down is to restrain him.

Morrison: I?d love to know if there?s any body of evidence, anywhere, that says that the kind of program you?re running actually makes a positive difference in the lives of people.

Long: I have six young people in Iraq right now who literally started out in the Buffalo Soldiers as young people who were disrespectful. We have proved to the families who brought children to the Buffalo soldiers that going to the desert is a miracle worker.

One of Long?s most noted supporters was the local sheriff Joe Arpaio, a man who?d developed his own national reputation for tough love.

Joe Arpaio, local sheriff: I was impressed with his efforts to take care of kids, young kids, especially those that have problems.  

In Sheriff Arpaio?s jails, inmates work in chain gangs  are made to  wear stripes and pink underwear, and some actually sleep in desert tents, much  like Long?s Buffalo soldiers.

Arpaio: The kids seemed to really appreciate that program.

Arpaio and Long seemed a perfect match, the self-proclaimed ?toughest sheriff? in the land.

Arpaio would even attend Buffalo soldier graduation ceremonies. In appreciation, Long awarded the sheriff the ?Buffalo soldier humanitarian award.?

Of course there was one big difference between the two: Sheriff Arapio was dealing with convicted criminals, Charles Long with confused youngsters."
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Offline Anonymous

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #128 on: January 01, 2006, 11:49:00 PM »
Child Protective services sends kids to Star Ranch, so they are really investigating themselves. My parents are foster parents for CPS.
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Offline MADMOM

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« Reply #129 on: January 04, 2006, 07:22:00 PM »
I have not been online for a few days so I must say that it was nice to see so many posts added to this thread since I last checked.

Licensing handles the investigation.  All RTC's are investigated by licensing. What most people don't realise is that most children in RTC's are placed by CPS.  CPS and Licensing are both under the direction of TDFPS.  That is the biggest concren that I have.  There is no unbias investigation into Mikey's death.  I live here in the Hill Country and am very aware of the law enforcement in this area. I do not believe that our DA will "really" try to get a true bill on this case.  He hates a good fight.  He really hates the media and will avoid it at all costs.  

Is there anyone out there that lives in the Texas Hill Country and can contact me. Does anyone know any more about this investigation.  Does anyone know the name of the "staffer" that did this.  We all need to work together to ensure that the media does not let this case die down.  How many more have to die before the law makers will listen and change the laws to protect them.  I am thinking about holding a candle light vigil for Mikey the night before the Grand Jury meets.  The next meeting in Kerr county on on the 9th.  No body will tell me if this case is being presented.  How do I find out.  The district attorney's office will not talk.  The sheriffs office will not tell me and the district clerks office claims they have no idea.  So who the hell knows.  

I am looking for help.  Somebody out there knows the ins and outs of how something like this works.  PLEASE HELP!  post to this board and I will continue to check daily.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #130 on: January 04, 2006, 09:38:00 PM »
Ask a local reporter.  If they can't put someone on it, talk to one and ask how he/she would go about finding this information out.

If there was an arrest, the police blotter *should be* public record.  If you know what date the arrest was, or within a few days of it, you know what dates to check the blotter for.

Look at the descriptions to find the arrest you're looking for and from that you can try to get a copy of the police report.  Again, a reporter can tell you what of this is public record in case the department doesn't want to cough up some info that they really have to cough up.

If there was an arrest, once you find out who, you can start looking at the grand jury dockets to find the name of the arrestee to find out if it's been sent to a grand jury or not.

Of course, you can't know if there have been additional arrests in the case other than right after the incident unless you can get someone to tell you--which apparently you can't.

The best way to get the info, of course, is to get a reporter to go talk to the family and find out what information the police have released to them.

What you guys really ought to do is start an official sounding newsrag like "Treatment Today" or "Teen Mental Health Reports" or something--you know, like the power companies make an official sounding "Citizens for the Environment" name for an interest group and buy ads in that name.  Make it *not* sound like a survivor group, but just like a straight news rag.

Then put you guys that want to check this stuff out yourself on the roster of the webzine as "reporters"---"Hi, Mr. Officer, I'm a reporter from Teen Treatment Today, doing a story on the recent death of Joe Victim at Sleazebag RTC.  Our readers are very interested in this case.  We'd like to find out something about the state of the investigation.  Is the investigation into Joe's death still open at this time?  Was there an autopsy, and if so, has the coroner determined the cause of death?  Have there been any arrests?  Do you anticipate any?  Have you identified any suspects or persons of interest?"

Geez, watch Greta and Geraldo and crib their interview questions.  Practice sounding like a reporter, ask for a sit-down, bring a tape recorder and if they are't comfortable with you using it, have a pad and pen for backup.  Have your questions written out in advance, but don't be afraid to use common sense to deviate from the format.  If you get a sit-down interview with someone at the police department, dress like Geraldo or Greta.

Either get a reporter on it, or pump a reporter for as much information on how to find out as he'll give you.  Offer to take him out and buy him lunch if he'll give you some tips and pointers.

Most people love to show off their professional expertise.  If you call around to your local paper or news radio station(s), you can probably get *some* reporter to bite *at least* on the offer of a free lunch.

Julie
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #131 on: January 04, 2006, 10:16:00 PM »
Side note of foster kids and caseworker visits.

Most States Can't Prove Foster Kid Visits
By KEVIN FREKING (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
January 04, 2006 8:43 PM EST

WASHINGTON - Lacking proof from most of the states, federal officials are concerned that many foster children are not being visited regularly by case workers, according to a government report to be released Thursday.

Only 19 states plus the District of Columbia were able to produce computer-based reports detailing how often such visits occurred in fiscal 2003, according to the inspector general for the Department of Health and Human Services.

Seventeen of those states required at least monthly visits. Yet, five reported that less than half of their foster care children were visited that frequently. Another five states reported a visitation rate of 75 percent or less.

Most states said they lacked the resources to produce such a report, or they had not yet moved to a computer recordkeeping system. The federal government and state governments have spent $2.8 billion developing such systems since 1994.

"We're not surprised at what the inspector general found," said Wade Horn, HHS assistant secretary for children and families.

Horn said he shared concerns that states need to do a better job of tracking caseworker visits.

Child welfare experts say caseworker visits are among the most important tools states can use to protect foster children.

"The more frequently a child is visited in foster care, the better the outcome for that child," Horn said.

Nationally, about 500,000 children are in foster care, a number that has been declining in recent years, Horn said.

All states must comply with federal regulations to get federal funding for their foster care programs, but each state determines how services are provided. Forty-three states call for monthly visitation. The others set visitation standards ranging from weekly to quarterly.

The federal government can financially penalize those states that do not show improvement in key areas such as caseworker visits. So far, the Bush administration has resisted that approach.

"The goal of the (reviews) has not been to penalize states, but to work with them to improve the effectiveness of their child welfare systems," Horn said.

Horn said he was prepared to enact sanctions for those states that fail to improve.
"Our hope is that every state will show progress. They don't have to be perfect, but they have to show progress," Horn said.

Daniel Levinson, the HHS inspector general, recommended that the federal government promote the development of computer tracking systems. Such systems would improve states' abilities to ensure caseworkers visit foster children.

The federal government provides 75 percent of the funding for such automated systems, Horn said.

The IG's report noted that 44 states and the District of Columbia are in various stages of developing their computer systems, but six states have no such systems planned. The report did not name those states.

For the 31 states that could not produce a report, the IG's office repeated some reasons they were given.

"We don't have the manpower to generate reports," an unidentified official from New Mexico told the inspector general.

The IG's office found the following rates for monthly visitation in 2003:
Wyoming, 27 percent
West Virginia, 42 percent
Washington, D.C., 43 percent
Kentucky, 44 percent
New Hampshire, 49 percent
Nebraska, 50 percent
Tennessee, 53 percent
Arizona, 59 percent
Arkansas, 71 percent
Texas, 75 percent.

---
On the Net:
Administration for Children and Families: http://www.acf.hhs.gov

HHS Office of Inspector General: http://oig.hhs.gov
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Offline MADMOM

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« Reply #132 on: January 05, 2006, 11:48:00 AM »
Thank you so much for your help.  Unfortunately, I have been down that road.  We have had media coverage in the San Antonio area.  The Express News (newspaper) and all of the stations have covered the death.  However they only covered it when the child was killed.  It was a "hot topic" at the time.  I have talked to the investigator on this case and she will not release any information.  The case is under investigation and they will not release the "staffers" name.  All that I have found out is that he has worked for the Star Ranch for the last 7 years.  I have talked with the District Attorneys office and they will not tell me when this case is going to be presented to the grand jury.  It is just not right that the name of the adult is not released.  I know that he/she has not been arrested yet.  I have gotten copies of the court records from the district clerks office and a copy of the autopsy report.  Why is it that they are able to release the name of the child that is dead, but not the adult responsible.  I do have the support of the media, and they are very interested, however, they  have not been able to access a name either.  Again, I appreciate your post, but I was wondering if you had any other thoughts.  There has to be a way that this information is public.  I am not familiar enough with the law to know.  What I do know is that there is a dead child and the cause of death is clear.  I will look forward to hearing from you.  Is there a way that I could talk with you.  I am really not a suspicious person, however, I am sure that one of the people posting to this thread is from the ranch.  Again, thank you for your interest.
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Offline justamomintx

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« Reply #133 on: January 06, 2006, 10:30:00 AM »
I've been away since Christmas so there are a lot of new posts.  I am struck by a couple of things:  how vehement some of the responses are, and how the most strongly worded responses are from Anonymous posters.  
Some of these people keep missing an important point:  that if this boy's parents had not abandoned him, he may never have been at Star Ranch.  Their parental rights were stripped from them because of abuse and neglect.  He was placed in foster care and could not stay becaue of his numerous emotional problems.
So the idea that everyone should shun treatment centers doesn't really address what should happen to children who have this type of special need.
I am furious that this boy was treated this way, but I also have experience with children with behavioural issues that act out and try to harm themselves.  I also saw staffers at Star Ranch de-escalate that type of behaviour through  talking, not requiring any type of restraint.
But my experience with Star Ranch was with the summer camp (1 week), not the RTC.
I've never been in a residential treatment center myself; it sounds like some of you have.  That must have been hard.
But for some kids, it looks like it may be the only place left.  
I am really tired of hearing "This place kills kids".  ONE child died.  I haven't seen or heard anything that indicates there is a child murderer on the rampage in Ingram.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #134 on: January 06, 2006, 12:31:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-01-06 07:30:00, justamomintx wrote:

"I've been away since Christmas so there are a lot of new posts.  I am struck by a couple of things:  how vehement some of the responses are, and how the most strongly worded responses are from Anonymous posters.  

Some of these people keep missing an important point:  that if this boy's parents had not abandoned him, he may never have been at Star Ranch.  Their parental rights were stripped from them because of abuse and neglect.  He was placed in foster care and could not stay becaue of his numerous emotional problems.

So the idea that everyone should shun treatment centers doesn't really address what should happen to children who have this type of special need.

I am furious that this boy was treated this way, but I also have experience with children with behavioural issues that act out and try to harm themselves.  I also saw staffers at Star Ranch de-escalate that type of behaviour through  talking, not requiring any type of restraint.

But my experience with Star Ranch was with the summer camp (1 week), not the RTC.

I've never been in a residential treatment center myself; it sounds like some of you have.  That must have been hard.

But for some kids, it looks like it may be the only place left.  

I am really tired of hearing "This place kills kids".  ONE child died.  I haven't seen or heard anything that indicates there is a child murderer on the rampage in Ingram.





"


you keep missing the MOST IMPORTANT point.  the staff at star ranch KILLED THIS KID for acting out.

don't try to compare a "summer camp" with an RTC.  it's a shame that the summer camp staff are trained and the RTC staff isn't.  end result: A DEAD KID.  pretty high price to pay because the staff don't know how to do the job.

HOW MANY MORE WILL DIE AT THE HANDS OF UNTRAINED STAFF?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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