Spring Creek Lodge

[Antigen]

Know what really was the most telling tale, though? All that smack talk about this Ashley person. I guess they got carried away, these wonderful loving friends and family of Alex's, and they gave enough clues for interested readers to actually look her up. What I've seen is a kid who's obviously got something on the ball. Not only is she pretty adept at that website and the photog stuff, but also has equitted herself here w/ more intelligence, character and maturity than most of the adults.

THAT is why I'm less than fully impressed w/ your objectivity, especially wrt the character assesment of teenaged kids.

Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself - that is my doctrine.

--Thomas Paine

[Anonymous]

To Alex's mom and aunts.  Read here if it helps you keep up with what your opposition is doing to undermind the help you are trying to get Alex.  Don't post here.  Don't let the few people that come here tear your life up more.  I've been where you are.  I've been glued to this place and in tears over it.   People come  here because they are angry or hurt.  Focus on Alex, the help he needs, and leave this place for the hurt and the angry.  Don't open yourself up to the ridicule of strangers.  Don't waste your time defending what you are trying to do.  Spend the time researching another place for Alex or other options.   If you will stop defending and posting, these people will tire of patting each other on the back and the drama will rest some.  Remember, time is on your side.  YOU be faithful to Alex.  Look to his best interests the best way you can.  DON'T let strangers tear you up.  The families that know you and the situation and are still oposing you are honestly trying to help, but there is no way they can understand the pressure and pain you are going thru.  Time will prove that Alex left no other immediate options.  The people on this site, once they learn that Alex and Ashley behave in the manner the manner you know they do, well, Alex and Ashley's name will vanish from fornits because no one here wants to hear that the kids were really responsible for pushing the parents to drastic measures.  PLEASE...if something in your gut tells you there is a problem at SCL, not something on this site, but maybe at Isaac or something from your pastor, move him.  There are other places, other options.  Keep looking.

[CCM girl 1989]

Has anyone been able to recommend another place for Alex? One that isn't affiliated with WWASP (which can be a little difficult these days!!!)?

I've always been a big believer in doing therapy from home, but everybody is different. Sometimes, kids do need to receive more intense therapy. As long as it is therapy, and not abuse. This behaivor modification stuff makes me want to puke!

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-10 08:33:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:

"Has anyone been able to recommend another place for Alex? One that isn't affiliated with WWASP (which can be a little difficult these days!!!)?



I've always been a big believer in doing therapy from home, but everybody is different. Sometimes, kids do need to receive more intense therapy. As long as it is therapy, and not abuse. This behaivor modification stuff makes me want to puke!"

From what I understand in reading back, there was a local treatment facility he was looking into, but it sounds as if his family were not interested in pursuing that. Other than that, it doesn't seem like there has been any mentioned.  There was mention of moving him to another facility or psychiatric center, but no more information on that either.  Good question.

[CaughtInTheMiddle]

You may think we are lying about our kids being on the computer. That is your choice. I have only posted from my home computer and this one at work. Detroit library? your guess is as good as mine. You have to remember she posted this site all over myspace and vampire freaks. It is going around the school could she have kids not fond of her? I am sure, it is very rare that someone in high school is loved by everyone there. If my daughter who is on the computer around 4 hours a day had posted something I am unaware. I have not shared a lot of this with her. Could she have over heard me talking about this site? Probably. Is she smart enough to check my history and find the site? Chances are yes.  I do feel Ashley is smart. Dose/does that mean she is not going to make mistakes? No. Do I believe her hart is in the right place to direct us to this information? Yes.  It would be nice for her and her family to notice and find a little comforting that we are here reading and giving info to Jacki. That I am sharing info with them, that they would not get any other way. I could have stopped reading along time ago. After being called a troll and program parent all types of things when all I was trying to do is get info. In a letter Alex said to his mom. I wish you and Ashley could have come to some agreement of what to do with me. As a mom I feel like.. how should I say this.. guess it doesn't matter someone will turn it around. Basically you 2 are not married you are kids they should not have to come to an agreement with you. On the other hand if you read into what Alex is saying in my opinion He wants his mom and Ashley in is life. When he gets home is this something you are willing to give him if he wants it?  As everyone has seen when I used an example that involved the way Ashley's mom is raising her daughter they took offense. So why is it wrong for Jacki to feel the same. If you really knew me you would know I except people for who they are if they are nice to me I could care less how they look. My niece is goth my nephew Alex as you know is also. I have nothing against tattoos I have them. It was all said to show that it made you feel insulted. Maybe now you can open your mind a little bigger and see that is maybe how Jacki felt. I can not speak for her but with this situation I know I would have felt insulted. In the beginning there was a lot of finger pointing I admitted to that. That is when emotions were running there highest. You say we bashed her. Well what about Ashley saying he got vicodin and pot from his mom. Do we really know this to be true or could she just have said this so people would look down on his mom even more? That is up to whoever reads it and what the choose to believe. The fact that his father spent no time with him. Lets look back over his life. His mother or father or both were always at his hockey games supporting him. His father and him spent many father son hours in the garage working on sleds, talking and bonding. Alex was the only teenager at the guys snowmobile trips with my husband and his father. Yes Joe is very busy working everyday so his family has food clothing and a decent life. But he did make the time to do these things with all 4 of his children together and separate. His mother bought him and herself dirt bikes so they had something they could do together and the jet ski. The problem here is in the last year maybe even year and a half he started not wanted to do these things he would have rather been with his friend. Which isn't abnormal for any kid after they get there license. So I guess you would have only seen or heard of the times he was more involved in his friends and as we know now drugs. The only reason I am still here is for Alex. If I didn't care about his feelings would I tell you that in a letter he said to you if he would have known he was leaving he would have gotten you a kitten to keep you company. That he loves you will be out soon. That SCL is a babysitting facility for overly hyper kids. I have a lot of thoughts and feelings if they are not coming out in the right order or right I am sorry. Sitting at work typing this instead of my job could get me fired.

[CaughtInTheMiddle]

I have just spoke to Jacki. She is very upset. She hates having no contact with her son. She had to do her commitment letter and it killed her because she isn't committed to making him finish the program but he now will think she is. Please anyone with another facility we could look into please email CaughtInTheMiddleSCL@yahoo.com They want to get him out ASAP but feel they need to find a place to put him where they can communicate with him. And he can get the treatment he wants and needs. Ashley Jacki hates that you and Alex and her cant talk she is scared and confused that is what this place and situation has done to her.

[CaughtInTheMiddle]

On 2006-01-10 06:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"To Alex's mom and aunts.  Read here if it helps you keep up with what your opposition is doing to undermind the help you are trying to get Alex.  Don't post here.  Don't let the few people that come here tear your life up more.  I've been where you are.  I've been glued to this place and in tears over it.   People come  here because they are angry or hurt.  Focus on Alex, the help he needs, and leave this place for the hurt and the angry.  Don't open yourself up to the ridicule of strangers.  Don't waste your time defending what you are trying to do.  Spend the time researching another place for Alex or other options.   If you will stop defending and posting, these people will tire of patting each other on the back and the drama will rest some.  Remember, time is on your side.  YOU be faithful to Alex.  Look to his best interests the best way you can.  DON'T let strangers tear you up.  The families that know you and the situation and are still oposing you are honestly trying to help, but there is no way they can understand the pressure and pain you are going thru.  Time will prove that Alex left no other immediate options.  The people on this site, once they learn that Alex and Ashley behave in the manner the manner you know they do, well, Alex and Ashley's name will vanish from fornits because no one here wants to hear that the kids were really responsible for pushing the parents to drastic measures.  PLEASE...if something in your gut tells you there is a problem at SCL, not something on this site, but maybe at Isaac or something from your pastor, move him.  There are other places, other options.  Keep looking.  "

Please if you know of other places. Email me at CaughtInTheMiddleSCL@yahoo.com. We are tiring to find a better place but nobody has given us any info we are searching

[Ashley's Mom]

On 2006-01-10 08:49:00, CaughtInTheMiddle wrote:

"You may think we are lying about our kids being on the computer. That is your choice. I have only posted from my home computer and this one at work. Detroit library? your guess is as good as mine. You have to remember she posted this site all over myspace and vampire freaks. It is going around the school could she have kids not fond of her? I am sure, it is very rare that someone in high school is loved by everyone there. If my daughter who is on the computer around 4 hours a day had posted something I am unaware. I have not shared a lot of this with her. Could she have over heard me talking about this site? Probably. Is she smart enough to check my history and find the site? Chances are yes.  I do feel Ashley is smart. Dose/does that mean she is not going to make mistakes? No. Do I believe her hart is in the right place to direct us to this information? Yes.  It would be nice for her and her family to notice and find a little comforting that we are here reading and giving info to Jacki. That I am sharing info with them, that they would not get any other way. I could have stopped reading along time ago. After being called a troll and program parent all types of things when all I was trying to do is get info. In a letter Alex said to his mom. I wish you and Ashley could have come to some agreement of what to do with me. As a mom I feel like.. how should I say this.. guess it doesn't matter someone will turn it around. Basically you 2 are not married you are kids they should not have to come to an agreement with you. On the other hand if you read into what Alex is saying in my opinion He wants his mom and Ashley in is life. When he gets home is this something you are willing to give him if he wants it?  As everyone has seen when I used an example that involved the way Ashley's mom is raising her daughter they took offense. So why is it wrong for Jacki to feel the same. If you really knew me you would know I except people for who they are if they are nice to me I could care less how they look. My niece is goth my nephew Alex as you know is also. I have nothing against tattoos I have them. It was all said to show that it made you feel insulted. Maybe now you can open your mind a little bigger and see that is maybe how Jacki felt. I can not speak for her but with this situation I know I would have felt insulted. In the beginning there was a lot of finger pointing I admitted to that. That is when emotions were running there highest. You say we bashed her. Well what about Ashley saying he got vicodin and pot from his mom. Do we really know this to be true or could she just have said this so people would look down on his mom even more? That is up to whoever reads it and what the choose to believe. The fact that his father spent no time with him. Lets look back over his life. His mother or father or both were always at his hockey games supporting him. His father and him spent many father son hours in the garage working on sleds, talking and bonding. Alex was the only teenager at the guys snowmobile trips with my husband and his father. Yes Joe is very busy working everyday so his family has food clothing and a decent life. But he did make the time to do these things with all 4 of his children together and separate. His mother bought him and herself dirt bikes so they had something they could do together and the jet ski. The problem here is in the last year maybe even year and a half he started not wanted to do these things he would have rather been with his friend. Which isn't abnormal for any kid after they get there license. So I guess you would have only seen or heard of the times he was more involved in his friends and as we know now drugs. The only reason I am still here is for Alex. If I didn't care about his feelings would I tell you that in a letter he said to you if he would have known he was leaving he would have gotten you a kitten to keep you company. That he loves you will be out soon. That SCL is a babysitting facility for overly hyper kids. I have a lot of thoughts and feelings if they are not coming out in the right order or right I am sorry. Sitting at work typing this instead of my job could get me fired."

I do appreciate all you are doing.  Yes, in the beginning there was too much anger.  I understand this.   All Ashley really wanted was to be able to have some sort of communication with Alex by letter, she was denied this.  I think this probably would have made them both more accepting of what was done with him.  Unfortunately, we can not go back in time and change things that were said.  Like you said, emotions were running at an all time high.  If I ever said anything to insult Jacki, I am very sorry.  From the beginning, I only disagreed with how this situation was handled and was hoping for some other alternative for everybodies sake.  Yes, Ashley is very upset over all of this, and we are doing everything we can to help her through all of this.  If there is any way you can get a message to Alex, please do.  Let him know she is here for him and loves him very much.  I am also not very good at typing out what I am thinking, and am also doing this at work.

[Ashley's Mom]

On 2006-01-10 08:55:00, CaughtInTheMiddle wrote:

"I have just spoke to Jacki. She is very upset. She hates having no contact with her son. She had to do her commitment letter and it killed her because she isn't committed to making him finish the program but he now will think she is. Please anyone with another facility we could look into please email lnowak@prodigy.net, if you would like to talk with me off the forum.  Leslie

[CaughtInTheMiddle]

Is this the place that is out patient? They are looking for a in patient One with communication where they can visit when ever. What ever there reason please help with in patient programs. My email address is posted feel free to contact me that way if you would like.

[Ashley's Mom]

On 2006-01-10 09:37:00, CaughtInTheMiddle wrote:

"Is this the place that is out patient? They are looking for a in patient One with communication where they can visit when ever. What ever there reason please help with in patient programs. My email address is posted feel free to contact me that way if you would like."

They have both inpatient and outpatient.  I sent you an email regarding it.  The inpatient program is called residential program.  Alex just wanted to go outpatient so he could try to graduate in June.  I am sure he would qualify for inpatient.  They will never know unless they call and check it out.

[Anonymous]

Dear Caught in the Middle:

I understand why they want inpatient for Alex.  On a whole bunch of levels.

I am in my mid-40s and almost killed myself with cocaine 20+ years ago.

The only program that worked for me was intensive out-patient.  (5 days a week, 4 hours a day, plus meetings on the other 2 days.) This is one of the problems with these schools.  There is no integration of skills or resistance in the real world.  

I hope you find a short-term inpatient for Alex, and I understand the desire to remove him from his surroundings and peers for a period of time.  However, I truly believe that the only way to successfully overcome an addiction problem is to fight it daily in the context in which you must overcome it.

Somewhere it says that Alex has been clean since November 9th.  If that is truly the case, he is well on his way through detox.  

My heart goes out to all of you and I hope that a placement is found for Alex close to home.  If it is inpatient, I hope there is a very serious aftercare program.

[CaughtInTheMiddle]

Aunt Shelly
Please call me tonight after 5. Dave erased your # from caller ID.

Thank you for all info given so far. I will read and pass on the info on Maple Grove. Any other places please email.

[Aunt Shelly]

On 2006-01-10 00:08:00, Antigen wrote:

"How do you have doctors 'here' keeping an eye on a kid who's held incommunicado out in Montana?



Seriously. I'm not accusing you of lying. I just don't know what it means. How does that work?



About the lies, well there were some friggin' whoppers in this thread earlier. Remember the dope dealing friend who turned out to be a myspace 'friend' and local rock star? The rumors about heroin? Oh yeah, there was the standard deception that there were all these random people who all knew all the hard facts about everybdy involved and they were all posting from the only library in the Detroit area served by a private ISP? There was more. You can go back and look if you want to.



I guarantee you guys are not getting the whole or accurate story. How do I know that? I'm 40. I have kids, teenagers, a grown one and of course all their friends and all their drama-even baby mama drama once in awhile. You guys are at war and the truth is always the first casualty. WWASP is just the war profiteer in all this. The sooner ya'll wise up to that, the better for everyone.

Don't laugh when you leave this courtroom, thinking you have beat the system because you have looked these things up yourself. We are going to get you down the road.
http://proliberty.com/observer/20020101.htm' target='_new'>Washington Superior CourtJudge Rebecca Baker

"

Alex admitted to the heroin use himself.

[Aunt Shelly]

On 2006-01-10 06:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"To Alex's mom and aunts.  Read here if it helps you keep up with what your opposition is doing to undermind the help you are trying to get Alex.  Don't post here.  Don't let the few people that come here tear your life up more.  I've been where you are.  I've been glued to this place and in tears over it.   People come  here because they are angry or hurt.  Focus on Alex, the help he needs, and leave this place for the hurt and the angry.  Don't open yourself up to the ridicule of strangers.  Don't waste your time defending what you are trying to do.  Spend the time researching another place for Alex or other options.   If you will stop defending and posting, these people will tire of patting each other on the back and the drama will rest some.  Remember, time is on your side.  YOU be faithful to Alex.  Look to his best interests the best way you can.  DON'T let strangers tear you up.  The families that know you and the situation and are still oposing you are honestly trying to help, but there is no way they can understand the pressure and pain you are going thru.  Time will prove that Alex left no other immediate options.  The people on this site, once they learn that Alex and Ashley behave in the manner the manner you know they do, well, Alex and Ashley's name will vanish from fornits because no one here wants to hear that the kids were really responsible for pushing the parents to drastic measures.  PLEASE...if something in your gut tells you there is a problem at SCL, not something on this site, but maybe at Isaac or something from your pastor, move him.  There are other places, other options.  Keep looking.  "

This is why Jacki does not read.  This is also why I didnt want to post either.  I have never said anything bad about Ashley here.  I now have a screen name so that there is no mix up.  We as aunts do not have the power to remove Alex.  He is being supervised by an outside Dr.  The family is paying to fly him in weekly.  He had no connection to this school. I pray daily that all will come out of this.