Spring Creek Lodge

[BuzzKill]

Speaking to the kid alone and out of ear shot won't happen. Its not allowed. Its breaking faith with the Program to even suggest it. It would (so they insist)cause problems with the progression of the kid in question, as well as all the kids in his group. If a parent insist on a private meeting with their child, they will be told they must withdraw the child - and consequently - be guilty of their child's death or jailing - which as we all know, is inevitable if you pull a half baked teen.

If they say "fine, lets pull him" - then they are threatened with this non sense about paying several months tuition as a penalty of pulling before the contract is up.

A parent really needs to make up their mind before ever contacting program staff. They need to go in and demand the kid be produced, and all their belongings, and all their records, and then they need to leave. Recording the proceedings may be a good idea. Taking along a camera may also be a good idea. Weigh the boy ASAP and get it on record. Get him to a doc ASAP and get him a complete health check.

[Anonymous]

If they do decide to show up at SCL and want to take their child to the doctor DO NOT use the local doctor that the facility uses!!  He is a joke!   He bleeds the parents financially with repeated visits because he prescribes the same medications over and over for whatever illness they present with.

I'd say his name but this is a small town and I'd probably get threatened with a lawsuit.. :scared:

[Nihilanthic]

Say it. YOURE ANONYMOUS. Thats the point of this forum!

By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. Eighty percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled, despite the fact that we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago.
--Vin Suprynowicz

[Anonymous]

Posted:  Sep 30, 2005 8:24 PM
   
maybe you guys should look at your lives a little more closely. yah the program sucked, it fuckin sucked ass. i would know, i was there when it was fuckin hard (dec1996-aug1999). a lot harder than it is now. but i can say that after being on my own and paying my own way for the last three years i am very grateful for the program. i think that without it i would not be a successful person today. and it wasnt the seminars or the processes that helped me it was the little shit like being a clean person and hold myself with respect and demanding respect from the world around me. also i still havent gotten close to someone out here like i did in the program people in the real world dont care about you or what you feel. you guys should be glad you got to experience real love at least once in your life, because from the look of it you wont be experiencing it any time soon again.
 
That was Clifford on my space.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-08 02:39:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"Say it. YOURE ANONYMOUS. Thats the point of this forum!

Uh...duhhhhh...I can't believe I didn't realize that!  I guess it's the paranoia setting in...lol!  His name is Randy Lovell.  He had a daughter that was in the program, so when the kids go see him for an illness or something they also get an earful of the "program".

[Anonymous]

It didn't say he was 12 when he got there. All we see is bad things I have run into some that say it sucked but nothing about abuse. Some even seemed happy. you may not have had a good or easy time and I am sorry but it dosnt mean everyone is going to experance what you did.

[WWFSMD]

Here's a thread all about the nightmares that these kids have.


Here's onen post in particular:

Geoff Posted:  Nov 22, 2005 11:02 PM
   
i dunno it stole something from me life is just so... different like idk what to say its like life is drained, it messed with my head the stress, parents trusting a complete stranger over me, having monitored phone calls so i could not express what was up without being told i was manipulating, just the tediousness it all started to get to me in the end(post-traumatic stress disorder) im constantly paranoid, check my parents comp history regularly cause if i get any inclination they are looking into a program im outta there no way is it happening again, all i do is smoke a bit of pot all the time... tho my whole time there was a blur but still... that place fucks with you after awhile i have lost all trust for my parents, family etc... soon after i was home i was still on a strict contract i felt like i was still in the program in a way for a long time i had dreams about being there but i would wake up in my room thinking my mom turning on the lights was family parent in the morning waking for another day in hell the dreams have stopped tho

Don't sweat the

Petty Things

Don't pet the

Sweaty Things

Water what you want to grow.
--Curiosity

[Anonymous]

Posted:  Sep 29, 2005 9:33 PM
   
you guys are totally crazy. did any of you graduate the program? haha. i understand whats going on here. but come on, "take a look at" how it helped you, or might have helped you, if you let it. yea, i HATED the program when i was there in the beginning. but think of all the people that those programs actually helped. i would not be here if i didnt go. and i thank every day for the 2 years i was there. whatever you do with your life after the program is on you. if you want to try to shut the programs down, fine. but maybe help with a better solution to help problem teens, instead of just forcing the negative down everyones throats about how bad these places are. come on guys. just listen to yourselves. anyone graduate in 2001?

[WWFSMD]

Ya know, we can do this all damn day.  You go pull out only the things that are supportive of your point of view but you don't even give a link so people can see all of the context.

*~¢¾MeGaN¢¾~*
  Posted:  Dec 27, 2005 4:41 PM
  some ppl r blind 2 tha fact that scl does try 2 brainwash you, n a lot of ppl let it. its kool if u want to be clean n sober and stay outa trouble, but u dont need tha program for that... its printed out clearly in tha thing that this guy posted that tha program has alot of tha same things a cult does... and personally i think they should shut it down. All it is is a scheme for money. they dont show parents that send their kids there wut it's really like on tha videos & pamphlets that tha parents see for a reason-because most parents wouldn't still send their kid there cuz that place is a shithole n its like hell to be there. They dont tell them how much control they really take over tha kids there... i know tha program has helped for many ppl, but that coulda been done in a way different and less hitler approach. there's so many classes these days that kids could go to that would help them... some that can be a forced thing to go to, but u still have your free time w/ other things, u still can talk 2 family and friends in privacy w/out having to spend months to earn it, etc.

Here are some great links:

http://www.ex-cult.org/ (under General Information)

WWASPS   http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... word=WWASP

Fresh beauty opens one's eyes wherever it is really seen, but the very abundance and completeness of the common beauty that besets our steps prevents its being absorbed and appreciated. It is a good thing, therefore, to make short excursions now and then to the bottom of the sea among dulse and coral, or up among the clouds on mountain-tops, or in balloons, or even to creep like worms into dark holes and caverns underground, not only to learn something of what is going on in those out-of-the-way places, but to see better what the sun sees on our return to common everyday beauty.
-- John Muir

_________________
Obey your Noodly Master

Emancipate from mental slavery

[Anonymous]

LINK


2nd from last

[Anonymous]

I found it on myspace.com. That is where you ppl have said to look. This is why parents are confused there is good story's and bad. If you didn't go there you would probably also be confused.

[WWFSMD]

On 2006-01-08 07:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I found it on myspace.com. That is where you ppl have said to look. This is why parents are confused there is good story's and bad. If you didn't go there you would probably also be confused."

That's why we're providing links to the entire site[/b].  :roll: .......and then some.

You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence.

--Charles Austin Beard

[WWFSMD]

On 2006-01-08 07:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I found it on myspace.com. That is where you ppl have said to look. This is why parents are confused there is good story's and bad. If you didn't go there you would probably also be confused."

Now that you shown us your ability to copy/paste, do you have any thoughts of your own on the subject?

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist

[Antigen]

Caught in the Middle, I understand yours and Jackie's desire to have faith. Who wouldn't? You guys seem petrified over this boy's behavior and here are these people making too-good-to-be-true promises. Who wouldn't want desperately to believe?

But it's just not so. I have a brother who went through one of the early, more notorious programs twice. This was 30 odd years ago. And, to this day, not only does he defend the program and deny even having wittnessed abuses that were documented in the media while he was there, but he'll attack me or anyone else who disagrees with him. They got him, hard, hook line and sinker. I was 6 when they stole him from me.

Here's another glowing testimonial of the Program right after the kid's obit.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =60#162392

Here's another similar story, as part of an indepth investigative report by Lou Kilzer for the Denver Rocky Mountain News. This mother said these things after her son shot himself in the head right in front of her while she was threatening to send him back for ANOTHER li'll 'tune up'.

http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... esp1.shtml

""Corey was very happy in the program," she says. "It was the best place for him. He was happy the whole time."

"Laura says proof that Corey was happy and well-adjusted at Paradise Cove can be seen from letters he sent home saying he loved being there."

...

"I did return my son Corey to SCL (Spring Creek Lodge) after he'd been home a year ? the moment I found out that he was drinking and smoking pot. ... He is now back home again, but he understands that if he runs away from home, he stays wherever he runs to. I WON'T HAVE HIM IN MY HOUSE WITH THIS BEHAVIOR."

...

"I think he was trying to manipulate me into sending him back into the program where he could get the help he really needed," she says.

"It is very unfortunate that in his inability to cope with life he couldn't just ask me, because I would have sent him back if he wanted to go ...

"He was happy in the program ... All you have to do is read his letters."

"Presiding at the funeral was the director of Teen Help's Spring Creek Lodge."

I HIGHLY recomend printing out Lou Kilzer's whole story or even the whole series.

Look, these methods are extremely effective. It's not expansion or exageration (nor manipulation or imagination) to compare them to the methods used to turn good, patriotic American POWs temporarily into good Communists. Senator Sam Ervin (of Watergate fame) made the same comparison back in `74 in his committee report "Individual Rights and the Federal Role in Behavior Modification"

http://thestraights.com/images/seed-Ervin-brainwash.htm

This is the report that forced NIDA to stop federal funding to Synanon based programs. This happened sometime between the time my family got involved w/ the Seed and when they put me in Straight. I've read reems and volumes and talked to a LOT of ppl who have been involved in WWASP and other similar programs. Same bullshit, slightly different window dressing. Same results.

In a nutshell, the Therapeutic Community model is extremely effective! Not the least bit therapeutic nor conducive to healthy communities, but very, very effective!

Don't worry about temptation--as you grow older, it starts avoiding you.  
-- Old Farmer's Almanac

[CaughtInTheMiddle]

Ashley's Mom

  I wanted to ask you a question. When Alex moved in with you and Jacki called and
asked you if he planned on living with you. If I remember correctly you told her, no you were
helping him move in with a friend. Why did you not then help him with going home and talking
to his parents? Do you or did you feel he was in any danger going back home?