ARE there any good facilities for my daughter???

[Anonymous]

I was at Cross Creek Manor.  Let me give you specifics, since you're obviously a WWASP employee or a natural-born programee for calling us liars (did someone sneak her a copy of the Parent Handbook early???).

1.  Children were slammed to the ground and sat on without proper technique.  Professionals who work with children should be trained in PART, CPI, or another proper restraint technique designed to keep the child safe in a dignified manner.  The core component of all restraint techniques is that they are intended to be a last resort to prevent injuries.  NOT the way that I saw them used, which was to have 2-5 adults tackle someone for talking back, squash them for 10-15 minutes to put on a show for the rest of us, and instigate them to make another comment so they could intensify the pain.  I'd see the child screaming in pain and the staff would not let up, and the restraints were unjustified in the first place.

2.  Being put on "essay silence" for up to two weeks as group punishment.  Group punishments by themselves are illegal.  So is requiring extended periods of silence.  We'd even get in trouble if a roommate tattled that we whispered a comment back in our rooms.  That was considered abuse according to federal laws that regulate abusive practices and consequences.

3.  Verbal abuse was rampant.  I saw staff yell at kids to, "Shut up", "Get the hell over here, now!", etc.  When they needed us to line up for something, etc. it was often screamed at us.  Bernie, Jake and Blair never yelled, but almost all of the others did.  

It is difficult to explain what this does to the psyche of a child who is the victim of constant verbal abuse for 2-4 years, especially since you've already decided that the kids deserve it if they don't listen to their parents.

4.  Failure to treat those with mental illness with dignity.  This psychological/emotional abuse was very rampant.  They'd make kids sit/sleep in hallways at the manor and at the rec and would publicly humiliate them with verbal abuse whenever others would walk by.  The rest of the kids were punished if they made eye contact, smiled, or spoke to those who were in trouble in the hallways.

I'm almost 30 and only post because I think you parents need to realize you're traumatizing your kids if you sell them to WWASP.

[Anonymous]

Wow, I am amazed at how much anger there is on this site.

To parents who are looking for an intervention for their child:  DO NOT LOSE HOPE!

Just like anything, wilderness programs and treatment programs and res. facilities exist on a spectrum, with a range of interventions, structure, and treatment modalities geared toward particular kinds of behaviors and diagnoses.  There are intense, in-your-face programs and soft, loving and nurturing programs.  Different kids, different needs.

I've worked at residential treatment programs, wilderness programs, and therapeutic boarding schools.  I've seen some kids really blossom and others merely maintain.  Clearly some forms of treatment and intervention are more successful than others, depending on the child's behavior and needs.

Please, please...do your homework.  Do not send your child to a program without multiple referrals and without a visit, if that's possible.  Talk to current students, parents, and alumni of the program, including those who did not experience long-term benefits--ask the admissions folks specifically for the names of these parents/students.  Even if they did not experience great benefit, they should be able to speak to the level of commitment of the staff, the integrity of the program, and the fact that the program worked hard to design specific interventions that would work or that they were honest about trying to refer to a program that might be more beneficial to meet that child's needs.

A good program should have a family/parent component.  Do not settle for a program that only works with your child.  Your child is one piece of a family system that will HAVE TO CHANGE as a whole if there is to be any long-lasting effect to either your child or your family.  

An ed consultant can be a great ally.  Yes, they get paid alot of money. But a reputable Ed. Cons. does not ethically receive gifts from programs to which they refer, so their job really is to research and know the pros & cons of many different programs.  Look for an ed. cons. with specialty in the needs of your child (i.e. alcohol/drug tx programs, learning disabilities, crisis intervention, etc.)

Bottom line--do your homework.  Look at other sources of information on the web, make phone calls, talk to program people and other people who have experience with programs. There are many, many good programs out there.  Do not be discouraged by the nay-sayers on this list.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

If you ask to talk to a parent, you'll be referred to a programee who will sing the praises of the program.  They screen their list carefully.

Schedule a visit if you'd like.  You'll get a dog-and-pony show filled with the kids acting exactly like the program wants them to.  Ask to see the kids in seclusion- don't give them advance warning or they'll doctor it up for you.

WWASP will not give out names/numbers of those whose kids weren't successful.  Go ahead, ask.

What we are all saying is that programs are abusive to kids.  We lived it.  Making phone calls isn't going to shed any light on program realities.  The "do your research" opportunities set up by programs are designed to make parents feel better about what they're inflicting upon their children for a temporary time period.  You've already done your "research" if you've read this far- and may you burn in hell if you make the very informed decision to subject your child to torture for any period of time.

[Anonymous]

How is the posting about the detailed abuses at Cross Creek "angry"?  Others asked for facts and details, and I attempted to provide just that.  I'm not swearing or name calling, just citing the facts that I remember.  I am an intelligent person capable of engaging in a rational conversation, which is nearly impossible when all of the pro-program people keep skirting the issues presented.

[Anonymous]

EVERYONE HERE SHOULD JUST EAT A XANAX, SMOKE A JOINT, AND CALM THE F*CK DOWN, K?

[TheWho]

Why is everyone so angry at parents looking to help their kids?  Is it because your parents never helped you and you dont want any other kids to get help?  I dont understand many of you, very little hope or advice is offered.  If many of you were sent away like you claim, why cant you offer a parent some insight which may help their child avoid being sent away.  Maybe look back on your own situation and see what might have averted you being sent away and offer that advice.  I think anything is better than just trying to tear someone down who is looking for help.  Does just being mean really make you feel that much better about yourselves?

[Anonymous]

As requested, here is some advice I'd give a parent:

When things weren't going so well, I did feel like I'd dug myself a bit of a hole with my group of friends.  I cared about them but really did need to get away from them in order to change, because they were doing the things I was getting in trouble for.  Like many teens, I was impressionable and not strong enough to tell them all that I didn't want to hang out with them anymore.  I don't think that I needed to leave the state for that to happen.  I'd suggest that parents look at moving (can be close enough to keep your jobs-just to get your kid into a new district) or requesting that the district allow your child to change schools.  Before the move, ask your child if they'll try therapy so that they are prepared for the idea of a fresh start.  If they are not on board with this, they'll recreate the same scenario with the only change being different faces surrounding them, but it's an idea and worth a shot.  If your child is being bullied, I'd use that as leverage in a school transfer request.

Someone else suggested taking a few months off to travel the world with your teen.  What a positive idea, and still cheaper than a year plus at a WWASP school.

Does your child have a favorite grandparent/ aunt/ uncle/ family friend who might allow the child to live there for awhile?  You could pay them $500 to $1000 for room and board, and it'd be way cheaper than the $4000 WWASP charges.  Plus your child would be in hands of someone you know and trust.  You need to be able to speak to your child freely for change to occur.  

What positive groups or activities are there in your community?  Part of the problem with stopping a behavior, drugs, gangs or whatever, is that then you're left with nothing to do.  All your son might be able to think of right now is something negative or against your rules.  Are there any sports groups, places to skateboard, clubs, etc. that you could get him to join?  I know he is probably very against this type of thing right now, so initially maybe you could make a deal that if he tries your idea, you'll give him something that he wants in return.  He may grow to love the new activities.  

If he's able to get an after school job to occupy his time, offer to match his savings dollar for dollar to save up for a car.  He will have far less time to get into trouble, and you have plenty of time to decide when he's responsible enough for a car.  Again, still way cheaper than WWASP.

I was one of the posters accused of being angry.  Really I did not mean to come across that way.  I was becoming frustrated with the fact that the WWASP defenders keep dismissing former students' claims and implying that we're not being honest or should just get over it.  I've seen horrible things happen to others in programs and do get upset when I think that it's about to happen to another person.

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-04 18:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"As requested, here is some advice I'd give a parent:



When things weren't going so well, I did feel like I'd dug myself a bit of a hole with my group of friends.  I cared about them but really did need to get away from them in order to change, because they were doing the things I was getting in trouble for.  Like many teens, I was impressionable and not strong enough to tell them all that I didn't want to hang out with them anymore.  I don't think that I needed to leave the state for that to happen.  I'd suggest that parents look at moving (can be close enough to keep your jobs-just to get your kid into a new district) or requesting that the district allow your child to change schools.  Before the move, ask your child if they'll try therapy so that they are prepared for the idea of a fresh start.  If they are not on board with this, they'll recreate the same scenario with the only change being different faces surrounding them, but it's an idea and worth a shot.  If your child is being bullied, I'd use that as leverage in a school transfer request.



Someone else suggested taking a few months off to travel the world with your teen.  What a positive idea, and still cheaper than a year plus at a WWASP school.



Does your child have a favorite grandparent/ aunt/ uncle/ family friend who might allow the child to live there for awhile?  You could pay them $500 to $1000 for room and board, and it'd be way cheaper than the $4000 WWASP charges.  Plus your child would be in hands of someone you know and trust.  You need to be able to speak to your child freely for change to occur.  



What positive groups or activities are there in your community?  Part of the problem with stopping a behavior, drugs, gangs or whatever, is that then you're left with nothing to do.  All your son might be able to think of right now is something negative or against your rules.  Are there any sports groups, places to skateboard, clubs, etc. that you could get him to join?  I know he is probably very against this type of thing right now, so initially maybe you could make a deal that if he tries your idea, you'll give him something that he wants in return.  He may grow to love the new activities.  



If he's able to get an after school job to occupy his time, offer to match his savings dollar for dollar to save up for a car.  He will have far less time to get into trouble, and you have plenty of time to decide when he's responsible enough for a car.  Again, still way cheaper than WWASP.



I was one of the posters accused of being angry.  Really I did not mean to come across that way.  I was becoming frustrated with the fact that the WWASP defenders keep dismissing former students' claims and implying that we're not being honest or should just get over it.  I've seen horrible things happen to others in programs and do get upset when I think that it's about to happen to another person."

Thank you so much, your response is very sincere and open..... now that will make a parent think twice about sending their child away.....ideas, other options, a different perspective on what their child might be thinking and about what may help... it is so hard to think clearly when your child or someone you love is walking torwards harming themselves, you need to take action quickly and do the right thing and to have someone offering options, living with Realtives, move or travel for a few months is great and not something they may think of themselves given the circumstances.... if a parent could come on here and get that type of feed back you could really make a difference ... I didnt expect anyone to respond this openly, you should save what you wrote and offer it to future parents who write in
Thanks again for sharing that

[PFRR]

Please do not be intimidated by folks who think all programs are bad for all kids, in reality some kids are going to need Residential Treatment or Schools, and so with that being said do you research, licensing, oversight, and don't be sold by the PR.  If you would like contact me at PFRR http://www.pfrr.org has all the information.  No matter your decision good luck.

[Nonconformistlaw]

On 2005-12-04 18:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"As requested, here is some advice I'd give a parent:

When things weren't going so well, I did feel like I'd dug myself a bit of a hole with my group of friends.  I cared about them but really did need to get away from them in order to change, because they were doing the things I was getting in trouble for.  Like many teens, I was impressionable and not strong enough to tell them all that I didn't want to hang out with them anymore.  I don't think that I needed to leave the state for that to happen.  I'd suggest that parents look at moving (can be close enough to keep your jobs-just to get your kid into a new district) or requesting that the district allow your child to change schools.  Before the move, ask your child if they'll try therapy so that they are prepared for the idea of a fresh start.  If they are not on board with this, they'll recreate the same scenario with the only change being different faces surrounding them, but it's an idea and worth a shot.  If your child is being bullied, I'd use that as leverage in a school transfer request.

Someone else suggested taking a few months off to travel the world with your teen.  What a positive idea, and still cheaper than a year plus at a WWASP school.

Does your child have a favorite grandparent/ aunt/ uncle/ family friend who might allow the child to live there for awhile?  You could pay them $500 to $1000 for room and board, and it'd be way cheaper than the $4000 WWASP charges.  Plus your child would be in hands of someone you know and trust.  You need to be able to speak to your child freely for change to occur.  

What positive groups or activities are there in your community?  Part of the problem with stopping a behavior, drugs, gangs or whatever, is that then you're left with nothing to do.  All your son might be able to think of right now is something negative or against your rules.  Are there any sports groups, places to skateboard, clubs, etc. that you could get him to join?  I know he is probably very against this type of thing right now, so initially maybe you could make a deal that if he tries your idea, you'll give him something that he wants in return.  He may grow to love the new activities.  

If he's able to get an after school job to occupy his time, offer to match his savings dollar for dollar to save up for a car.  He will have far less time to get into trouble, and you have plenty of time to decide when he's responsible enough for a car.  Again, still way cheaper than WWASP.

I was one of the posters accused of being angry.  Really I did not mean to come across that way.  I was becoming frustrated with the fact that the WWASP defenders keep dismissing former students' claims and implying that we're not being honest or should just get over it.  I've seen horrible things happen to others in programs and do get upset when I think that it's about to happen to another person."

Just wanted to add another alternative/option....why not look into mentoring programs in your area?

[Anonymous]

This is my advice: Put your kids on this and other forums, Let them do the research! and then let them decide if they are willing to take the risk of their parent choosing an abusive program. Man, I can tell you had I even known Staright Inc existed, I woulda changed alot of things and I didnt even do horrible stuff to get there in the first place, No drugs, no violence, no police problems... All I did was try to run away from home.


Yep, I'd inform my child what the possibilities are. Jail? I'd much preferred Jail or juvi...And yes atleast I would have had some rights.

Parents, I don't think you understand what happens in these place, maybe not all, but you never know and the Potential is HIGH for abuse. I don't think you understand what your kid is going through is most likely temporary, but once you warehouse them the scars are permanent. I just wish I could get the point across how much potential there is for any program, school w/e they pretend they are, to be severly abusive and harm your kid forever. So parents either you take care of your kid for a few more years or put them in a warehouse and then care for them forever after, trying to heal their wounds. It's up to you.

[Anonymous]

Quoted from above:  some kids are going to need Residential Treatment or Schools, -END


This is like saying some wives need to be abused.

[Withdraw]

This is what can happen to your child, in any facility. I would never take the chance. Illegal restraints are used, don't fool yourselves. I lived it almost every day for many months for doing nothing but sitting on my hands looking at the floor. I wasn't even allowed to speak for all those months, just because I refused to comply with the abuse of other children around me. So your kids won't only be abused, but they are often forced (through fear) to abuse others. And all the while you think your loving your kid by sending him/her away. Ironic isn't it. If you want to see what it is like for someone who refuses to comply, read up on me. I agree, do you really want your children to endure what I and so many others have? And then come home to you a stranger, Your kids will never, ever be the same, and not in a good way either- even if they don't know it right away.

This was a good link someone on the Straight Inc forum posted. It indicates what physically happens to a persons body during a restraint. And remember, I was restrained almost everyday for nothing, No violence, no nothing. It happened to me just because I was looking at the floor, sitting on my hands. I sat on my hands so no other kid would assult me. But it happened at some point during every single day.

http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Arc ... e/mohr.asp

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-04 21:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Quoted from above:  some kids are going to need Residential Treatment or Schools, -END





This is like saying some wives need to be abused."

No its not, all the person is saying is not all kids are the same some need treatment others dont, just like anything else there are people at both ends of the spectrum, everyone needs something different,just the way it is.
Sorry you relate this to violence in the home, hope this isnt something you are living with, or have experienced yourself.

[Anonymous]

Considering Ive made a thread stretch for 42+ pages trying to get a straight answer from programmies about how a program works and what it actually does, and they coudlnt clearly answer, Id be more inclined to say every program needs to figure out wtf its trying to fix and how its going to fix it before it should be taking up any kids.

But hey, in the nebulous, vague word of DEADINSANEORINJAIL due to... anything but being an obedient stepford child, you can send them off for being "OUT OF CONTROL!" if they dont take the trash out without nagging  :roll:

So then you send them off to get fixed in some MYSTERIOUS WAY so you can drop off some kid whose all bad and get your "old kid back" and somehow think thats not brainwashing either, right?