Author Topic: hurricane victims are victims of our uncaring government  (Read 15945 times)

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Offline OverLordd

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hurricane victims are victims of our uncaring government
« Reply #75 on: September 03, 2005, 10:31:00 PM »
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um...when's the last time you went grocery shopping overlord?

This afternoon.... I dont understand why you ask.

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I shouldn't respond, arguing with a 17 year old know it all can get tiring,

Just as a side note, I have been 18 for the last few months.

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If your own government told you to go somewhere, and you were stuck there for 5 days without food, water and any contact with any official- you wouldn't be pissed?

Its called being a solider... for some reason I find this comment really really funny. Not that it was a foolish comment, but the first thing I thought of when I saw this was being a solider.

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I hate to break this to ya dude, but, there was no partying going on in the french quarter on sunday night. Those scenes you are recalling are TOURISTS during mardi gras. Native new orleanians generally stay away from bourbon street that time of year. Your perception of the real New Orleans seems to be a little skewed.

He is right. Most of the people you see on burbon street are from elseware. The people you see during mardi gras pissing on the sidewalks, and making fools of them selfs are doing it because they know no one that knows them is watching.

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Does anyone else think the salvation army is a bit of a cult? They might not remodel offices, but they do make you behave a certain way, and live a certain life, - to me it seems they try to convert others mainly employees to their own thinking.


I dont understand what you mean. Please explane what you mean and please tell me any experances you have. I thought these people were ok.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Anonymous

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hurricane victims are victims of our uncaring government
« Reply #76 on: September 03, 2005, 10:35:00 PM »
Overlordd, you have no clue about what you are talking about. You sound like a complete idiot. It's like someone let their five year old come on the computer, seriously. Why don't you go hang out at struggling trolls instead?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline OverLordd

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hurricane victims are victims of our uncaring government
« Reply #77 on: September 03, 2005, 10:41:00 PM »
hmm, you seem to be bashing me across the board tonight anon... get over it, I dont care what a faceless anon has to say.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline OverLord

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hurricane victims are victims of our uncaring government
« Reply #78 on: September 03, 2005, 10:43:00 PM »
Shut up... I am not retardid like you theenk. I am 18 years old. I am an amature theolgnin and you shoold all listin to me. I know evereething.
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Offline Anonymous

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hurricane victims are victims of our uncaring government
« Reply #79 on: September 03, 2005, 10:51:00 PM »
Oh dear, Ward. I think the Beaver may be in for it.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #80 on: September 04, 2005, 12:56:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-09-03 10:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-09-02 19:58:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Eat me."




Give me your address so I can toast you on the bahbie... with a lil smoke BBQ sauce, I'm sure you will be crunchy and tasty with my cuisine knowhow. I can make the nastiest, dirtiest, boniest motherfucker taste like Sin City's Parole Officer's nibbles. MMMMMM, finger lickin good, nigger."


Just to show you I'm a good listener, I will paraphrase what you just said, and repeat it back to you: you're saying you want to fire up the griddle, get me hot, pour your special sauce all over me and then eat me. Have I heard you correctly? I think good communication is the cornerstone to a good relationship.
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Offline Anonymous

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hurricane victims are victims of our uncaring government
« Reply #81 on: September 04, 2005, 01:57:00 AM »
I hear that in the wealthy areas of NOLA there were buses while we watched people dying at the conv. ctr.

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On 2005-09-01 19:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I am so sad by the lack of aid from our government. They want to stop looting... Feed them!!! Our government doesn't care about the poor and the blacks and the old. If this were a wealthy area there would have been better action quicker."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #82 on: September 04, 2005, 07:02:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-09-03 22:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I hear that in the wealthy areas of NOLA there were buses while we watched people dying at the conv. ctr.



Quote

On 2005-09-01 19:07:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I am so sad by the lack of aid from our government. They want to stop looting... Feed them!!! Our government doesn't care about the poor and the blacks and the old. If this were a wealthy area there would have been better action quicker."

"


I saw this, I was there. Mel Gibson came out in his MadMax outfit, Tina Turner was singing. He started beating on people. Then the Terminator was there suddenly, not the one you know who is governor of Cali. This guy was all metal and he had these really lame quotes to say from his memory banks, he went through all of them just before killing off several humans.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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hurricane victims are victims of our uncaring government
« Reply #83 on: September 04, 2005, 09:42:00 AM »
Pass the PCP, boy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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hurricane victims are victims of our uncaring government
« Reply #84 on: September 04, 2005, 12:14:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-03 21:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-09-03 10:21:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote


On 2005-09-02 19:58:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Eat me."







Give me your address so I can toast you on the bahbie... with a lil smoke BBQ sauce, I'm sure you will be crunchy and tasty with my cuisine knowhow. I can make the nastiest, dirtiest, boniest motherfucker taste like Sin City's Parole Officer's nibbles. MMMMMM, finger lickin good, nigger."




Just to show you I'm a good listener, I will paraphrase what you just said, and repeat it back to you: you're saying you want to fire up the griddle, get me hot, pour your special sauce all over me and then eat me. Have I heard you correctly? I think good communication is the cornerstone to a good relationship. "


Yeah, I damm near could'na said that better mah niggerpoor, waterlogged self. Hey, you got any toothpix? I have a feelen' you gon be juicy and hard to get off mah teef like crispy. Is you good for tartar control?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nonconformistlaw

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« Reply #85 on: September 04, 2005, 01:53:00 PM »
Ginger said ------?Granted, maybe (maybe, not very likely) many of the very poor or marginally poor ppl of NO honestly didn't understand their situation. But even that's hard to swallow. For years, I've heard comments about how, one day, the levies will fail and everybody knew that city would be yards under water. It was no secret.? ETC--------

Ginger, this is my response to much of what you said in you last post to this thread

I agree that it is difficult to comprehend why on earth so many people would not fully realize the seriousness of the potential damage that the hurricane was likely to inflict. And your right, that the potential for disaster in NO was widely known. But here?s a few things I came up with which may explain why some of the 20% that stayed really may not have fully realized what was about to hit them?..

1. LACK OF EDUCATION amongst impoverished people - The information that was known about the potential for disaster in NO was widely known by EXPERTS and LOCAL, STATE, AND FED OFFICIALS. In addition, highly educated people are obviously very likely to fully grasp information shared from experts and officials and therefore be likely to run like hell when told to. That is NOT to say less or uneducated people are incapable of understanding?that is not what I mean at all. Those with past experience with hurricanes also are highly likely to ?get it? so to speak and take precautions, heed warnings, and evacuate. People with good common sense, regardless of their level of education, are probably also likely to heed warnings and get the hell out of dodge.

In comparison, imagine for a moment those in the most impoverished of circumstances. Most have very little education. Many tend to dismiss information from educated people, as they are suspicious of educated people to begin with. Ok this leaves good old fashion common sense? first, many of those people with the sense to realize what was coming couldn?t get out even if they wanted to for reasons I?ve already discusses in prior posts on this thread. Second, there are many degrees of intelligence?.and?lets face it?.some people were unfortunate in that they were born with low levels of intelligence. That?s not their fault. Combine lack of education, suspicion, rejection and resentment of ?educated? ideas, and lower levels of intelligence ? I see a very sad, stark reality, that impoverished uneducated people really may have dismissed the warnings?..and I cant bring myself to judge, criticize, or condemn their decision to stay?.I realize what I am saying may come across the wrong way, so let me stress that I  personally don?t judge anyone based on their level of education? I detest those who do judge people who are ?uneducated.?

2. PAST EXPERIENCE. This came from the mouth of the Mississippi governor (see Russert transcript below)on why may of his residents did not leave and I think it applies to NO residents as well. Many times the residents boarded up, evacuated, and came back, only to find out they took precautions for nothing. Its then very easy for me to see, that people might therefore dismiss yet another warning and evacuation order. Incidentally, NO had to evacuate in 98 for hurricane George and only 50% actually left. So it really think its possible many thought evacuating would be pointless?based on past experience. If you boarded up, packed and evacuated numerous times without anything like Katrina happening?.ask yourself?is it reasonable that some people might get to the point where they no longer take the threat seriously?

3. MEDIA HYPE. The media, for all its good points, has a tendency to blow a simple storm out of proportion for the purpose of having something to report when nothing better is going on. Usually, as I have noticed, the impending doom of the ?storm? rarely materializes in the manner the media claims it will. So, sometimes the threat of a storm, by some people anyway, can be written off as yet more media hype, exaggerations, etc, and therefore, may not take a serious real threat seriously.

4. DENIAL. Human beings are well known to personally deny certain harsh realities of life?I guess I see it as a coping mechanism sometimes?after all, who wants to live in fear? For to admit the danger to oneself, for some people, means fear. I really believe some people because of this easily fall into ?Nothing bad will happen;? or ?I didn?t think it would be THIS bad.?

5. PARALYZED BY FEAR. There are some people, who fully realize the threat that is coming, may become paralyzed by fear?ever seen or heard of someone in a dangerous situation just stands there and does nothing? Combine this factor with a FEELING OF HELPLESS that a person w/o $ or transportation might experience. I think it is possible, some people who may have understood the threat, ended up just doing nothing due to a combination of both factors?..What would you do if you were scared to death and felt utterly powerless over a given situation, at the same time?

6. BAD DECISION MAKING IN A CRISIS ? and I don?t mean this in a critical sense because not all of us are good at making wise decisions under extreme stress. I think that is understandable.

7. TO HELP RELEIF EFFORTS ? many may have lingered to help relief efforts?.such as doctors, nurses, police, firefighters, and other emergency workers who felt an obligation to their community, to stay behind to do their jobs in a crisis situation?to save lives

8. OPPORTUNISTS ? yes I have to acknowledge that some people may have stayed simply to take advantage of the situation/looting. However I doubt many people fell in to this category?I think to be fair though, I had to acknowledge that a small fraction of the 20% probably was in this category----and I will NOT defend or support such people.

And a side note, even if you are right that these people, the 20% that stayed behind were just idiots that ignored well publicized warnings, I answer that with a question?doesn?t every single human being on this planet ignore serious well publicized, well known risks every single day? (One example ? smoking ----I ignore the warnings on this one every day even though I know that I will most likely die of cancer)

I guess I just cant fathom, in the situation of NO, criticizing the victims?.but on another note, I do think plenty of criticism is warranted on this issue: If officials knew damn well that a sizable percentage of its citizens would literally be trapped in the city due to having no money or transportation to evacuate in conformance with Mayor orders, why in hell was there no cavalry of greyhound buses lined up ready to evacuate those who truly needed help out BEFORE the storm hit??????????

If your interested?Tim Russert on Meet the Press today posed that very question to former NO mayor Morial.--------?MR. RUSSERT:  There was a poll taken before the hurricane, and about 60 percent of the residents of New Orleans said they probably wouldn't leave if they were asked to evacuate.  Many of them said they couldn't leave.  They live check to check.  They don't have an automobile.  Should the mayor, should the governor, should the president, should everyone have been more insistent and provided the resources-- trains, planes, buses, automobiles, boats--to evacuate the city before the hurricane?? ------ I personally think that is a damn good question.

Here?s the transcript. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/    

 ::rainbow::
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quot;In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.\" George Orwell

Offline Anonymous

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hurricane victims are victims of our uncaring government
« Reply #86 on: September 04, 2005, 02:14:00 PM »
Hurricane prompts awkward questions

                                                                By Elinor Shields                                                    
                                                         BBC News                                                                                      
     
                                       Images from the stricken city of New Orleans show that many of those suffering in its streets and shelters are mainly black and poor.                                                                

                                  The plight of those stranded amid the filth and the dead has highlighted a side of the city most tourists did not see - one in which two-thirds of its residents are black and more than a quarter live in poverty.                                

                                  Anger is mounting among African-American leaders that this section was left behind when others fled.                                

                                  Some say the chaos in Katrina's aftermath has exposed deep divisions in both the city and US society.                                  

                                  "We cannot allow it to be said by history that the difference between those who lived and... died... was nothing more than poverty, age or skin colour," Congressman Elijah Cummings said.                                

                                       'Paycheck to paycheck'                                                                

                                  Correspondents say New Orleans' glamorous reputation has always concealed a high level of deprivation.                                

NEW ORLEANS                                                        

 485,000 residents                                

                                 10 times national murder rate                                

 21% of households without access to a car                                
 
 The city famous for its jazz clubs and horse-drawn carriage rides was also a place in which about one in three children lived in poverty, in one of the poorest states in the country.                                

                                  Observers say this group was particularly vulnerable in the face of a hurricane.                                

                                  Many of those trapped by Katrina's floodwaters lived in dilapidated neighbourhoods that were long known to be exposed to disaster if the levees failed.                                  

                                  And a large number would have had no means to flee the region as the storm loomed - a recent US census found that one-fifth of the city's residents had no access to a car.                                

"We don't have transportation," one resident told WHBF-TV. "We're living paycheck to paycheck, it's not like we're just able to get up and leave."                                  

                                  A former leader of the black caucus in the House of Representatives agrees.                                  

                                  "It is one thing to receive a warning to get out - it's something else to have the ability to get out," US Congressman James Clyburn said.                                  
   
                                       Uneasy questions                                                                

                                  Black members of Congress have also criticised the pace of relief efforts.                                

                                  Some say the response was slow because those most affected are poor.                                  

 I'm ashamed of America. I'm ashamed of our government                                                                
                                                                                                  Congresswoman Carolyn Kilpatrick                                                                
   
 "I'm ashamed of America. I'm ashamed of our government," Congresswoman Carolyn Kilpatrick said.                                

                                  "George Bush doesn't care about black people," rapper Kanye West told viewers of an NBC benefit concert for hurricane victims.                                

                                  Other commentators object to the media's handling of the crisis.                                  

                                  "Television is creating a sympathetic image of white people fleeing, and black people caught up in a shoplifting orgy," Lawrence Aaron wrote in New Jersey's Record.                                

                                  But some hope that the aftermath of the hurricane will force people to confront the issue of inequality.                                

                                  "Most cities have a hidden, or not always talked about, poor population, black and white, and most of the time we look past them," Spencer Crew , the chief of a Cincinnati civil rights centre, told the New York Times.                                

                                  "This is a moment in time when we can't look past them. Their plight is coming to the forefront now," he said.                                  

Story from BBC NEWS:
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/a ... 210648.stm
 
 Published: 2005/09/04 09:42:13 GMT
 
 © BBC MMV
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #87 on: September 04, 2005, 02:48:00 PM »
NCL, I agree that all of the points you cover above are somewhere between granted and possible explanations for some people there. Even when Mt. St. Helen finally blew, some few residents decided they'd rather take their chances than leave thier much loved mountain.

But I don't think that explains anywhere near the number who are there. I can understand a little skepticizm in the rest of the gulf coast region. But the city of NO itself, no. Just about any time I've seen ppl from NO interviewed about their city, the topic of catastrophic flood comes up. It wasn't just the well educated. Any fool knows that water seeks it's own level and that living below sea level is not a particularly good idea. I think it was broadly known, even by the unletter Cajuns.

I just watched a little bit of a congressional hearing on hurricane preparedness in C-Span yesterday. This hearing occured last June and was attended by LA reps, the governor and others. They specifically stated that, in the event of a big storm headed for NOLA, they would require FEMA or someone to provide bus transportation for some 150k impoverished residents and that the effort should start at least 2 days prior to expected landfal. They also talked about improving the levies because they knew, to a certainty, that they would fail if they got hit w/ anything more than about a class 3.

They knew. But they were unable or unwilling to do any of the things they knew had to be done about it. I think part of that has to do w/ the fact that FEMA, for all it's flaws and failings in prior instances, is now even less effective under the command of Büsh cronnies at Homeland (in)Security. Even when, finally, they were given permission to leave their blue chairs and attand to the bureaucraticly generated disaster at the Civic Center, the first thing they did was to send in the guns.

I think if they had air dropped water and food several times in adequate quantities, they would not have had to use nearly as much deadly force to calm the crowd. But that's just me. I tend to think hungry, terrified people who think they're going to die anyway are more prone to violence and other andisocial behavior than normal.

Just because you do not take an interest in politics, doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684863952/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> PERICLES (430 BC)

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Offline Nonconformistlaw

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« Reply #88 on: September 04, 2005, 03:25:00 PM »
Okay so were at a stalemate on the issue of why some people chose to stay in NO...aside from the heartbreak of hearing survivor stories...it will be interesting to see if some explain why they stayed...anyway...not all debates end in complete agreement.  :smile: Sometimes the discussion itself however, leads to something we can agree and focus on....for example...I completely agree with your observations
-----"I just watched a little bit of a congressional hearing on hurricane preparedness in C-Span yesterday. This hearing occured last June and was attended by LA reps, the governor and others. They specifically stated that, in the event of a big storm headed for NOLA, they would require FEMA or someone to provide bus transportation for some 150k impoverished residents and that the effort should start at least 2 days prior to expected landfal. They also talked about improving the levies because they knew, to a certainty, that they would fail if they got hit w/ anything more than about a class 3."---------

I'm not the least bit surprised the legislature discussed this, then someone somewhere failed to implement a plan based on those discussions. Clearly, somebody should have provided a calvary of transportation BEFORE the storm made landfall.

-------"They knew. But they were unable or unwilling to do any of the things they knew had to be done about it. I think part of that has to do w/ the fact that FEMA, for all it's flaws and failings in prior instances, is now even less effective under the command of Büsh cronnies at Homeland (in)Security. Even when, finally, they were given permission to leave their blue chairs and attand to the bureaucraticly generated disaster at the Civic Center, the first thing they did was to send in the guns."------

You should read the Russert Meet the Press transcript...at one point it is brought to Russert's attention that FEMA turned away a lot of aid that started coming in early in the storms' aftermath---its really disturbing that FEMA consciously told aid to go away, not just once...and yeah I know beaurocratic red tape is part of it...but it really makes me wonder if there is more to it than mere beaurocratic ineptitide....

When you said ----------"I think if they had air dropped water and food several times in adequate quantities, they would not have had to use nearly as much deadly force to calm the crowd. But that's just me. I tend to think hungry, terrified people who think they're going to die anyway are more prone to violence and other andisocial behavior than normal."-----------------

I completely agree...food and water would have done a great deal to prevent much of the violence...desperation leads people to do desperate and inconceivable things in order to survive. And who can blame them...christ I know I would do whatever it takes to survive myself....
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #89 on: September 04, 2005, 04:38:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-04 12:25:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:

I completely agree...food and water would have done a great deal to prevent much of the violence...desperation leads people to do desperate and inconceivable things in order to survive. And who can blame them...christ I know I would do whatever it takes to survive myself....


No, no! From what I've heard (and I'll be damned if I can figure out why we haven't seen pictures) we're not talking about desperate survival measures here. We're talking all out mayhem; rapes, beatings, shootings.... like if you were a member of a Cajun street gang before the storm and convinced you were going to die anyway, what would you do? That's what they did, by all reports. I suppose I did get something valuable out of the program after all in that I can accept and even forgive horribly inhumane, insane behavior by people who are driven to it by horrific circumstance. I've seen so many normal, decent people behave like sadistic animals due to far less extreme circumstance than what those poor bastards have endured over the last week. Still can't exactly excuse it, but I can accept that that's the way it is.

May your days be joyfully challenging and your words artfully true
-- Ginger Warbis SMA, `00

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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