Carlbrook

[try another castle]

lol. Then no answer about where you got the information that "you are solely responsible for your thoughts and actions" is "a basic psychiatric mantra" ?...
... Any survivors know where that "mantra" derived? Liam? Castle? Dish? Ursus? ..uh, Santa?

My guess would be self-determination theory, since that deals with issues such as choices and free will, but it does not state or postulate, as far as I know, that every thought and action is self-determined and conscious. Rather, it studies the dynamics of which influences what.

[Anonymous]

lol. Then no answer about where you got the information that "you are solely responsible for your thoughts and actions" is "a basic psychiatric mantra" ?...
... Any survivors know where that "mantra" derived? Liam? Castle? Dish? Ursus? ..uh, Santa?

My guess would be self-determination theory, since that deals with issues such as choices and free will, but it does not state or postulate, as far as I know, that every thought and action is self-determined and conscious. Rather, it studies the dynamics of which influences what.

You are right. It doesnt. And it and is hardly a "basic psychiatric mantra," Its a  *theory* that, IN FACT, asserts the OPPOSITE of every person being "solely responsible for their thoughts, feelings and actions"

http://www.psych.rochester.edu/SDT/theory.html
"This natural human tendency[for mastery of their enviroment] does not operate automatically, and requires ongoing nutriments and supports from the social environment in order to function effectively. That is, the social context can either support or thwart the natural tendencies toward active engagement and psychological growth. Thus, it is the dialectic between the active organism and the social context that is the basis for SDT's predictions about behavior, experience, and development.

"but to the extent that [basic needs] are thwarted, people will show evidence of ill-being and non-optimal functioning. The darker sides of human behavior and experience are understood in terms of basic needs having been thwarted"



I was actually asking if the mantra "you are solely responsible for your thoughts, feelings and actions" or some variation was around at cedu. It has the ring of Synanon and est bullshit and I’ve heard variations of it from the cult disciples on fornits for years. Where did this BS originate? In how many Synanon divisions does it present?

Its obviously a useful bit of manipulation by Carlbrook/CEDU to make parents of  Carlbrook/CEDU beleive that crap, because when those vitims commit suicide or otherwise suffer with mental issues and functional impariments post-cedu their culticly addled idiot parents can think,"well, katie WAS solely responsible for her feelings and actions, so obviously Carlbrook Cedu isn't responsible for her blowing her brains out."

[Anonymous]

Whoopsie! Looks like this "parent" forgot which name he was using.

Thank you for playing, please try again!

No moron, this message board system sucks.

[Anonymous]

you must visit the school, participate in the parent meetings and see the reality.

The only way to see the reality is to be a student, or at least, an alumn from a sister school. (points to self.) I personally knew Tim Brace, btw. He was the headmaster at RMA while I was there.

There are at least two (if memory serves) CB alum currently posting on this forum that paint an almost identical picture to what happens at CEDU in terms of propheets, raps and workshops. Softer, maybe, in terms of restrictions, full-times, work details (I wouldnt know) but still tough love, and still  uber culty.


It still uses attack therapy.

There are also CB alum who have posted their good experiences, and I believe those are more current.

Other than "workshops", I've never heard those other terms used at CB.

Crews are nowhere near what was described in the CEDU video. I know of water bottle distribution to the classrooms and dishwashing.

But your copping out by saying the only valid way to see reality is to be a student. Come on, you sound smarter than that.

If you were serious about being on a mission to shut the place down, you'd gather some real evidence to support your belief that it's like CEDU. There are plenty of alumni you can contact (they have a Yahoo group), former staff and teachers.

There's nothing I can say to change your mind. I'm objective and have approached everything about the place with a skeptical eye. If a parent asked my advice I'd tell them our experience and caution them to look closely and decide based on their particular situation.

Like I said, it's not perfect, but it sure isn't CEDU.

[Anonymous]

You are right. It doesnt. And it and is hardly a "basic psychiatric mantra," Its a  *theory* that, IN FACT, asserts the OPPOSITE of every person being "solely responsible for their thoughts, feelings and actions"

Yes, it's a theory, as is all of psychology.

I guess you haven't heard of the humanists in your alleged studies.

[Anonymous]

You are right. It doesnt. And it and is hardly a "basic psychiatric mantra," Its a  *theory* that, IN FACT, asserts the OPPOSITE of every person being "solely responsible for their thoughts, feelings and actions"

Yes, it's a theory, as is all of psychology.

I guess you haven't heard of the humanists in your alleged studies.

Whoopsie! Looks like this "parent" forgot which name he was using.

Thank you for playing, please try again!

No moron, this message board system sucks.

Hi "program parent" with multiple screen names and personalities. You’re getting your various writing styles confused again, try to make each charcter consistent.

[try another castle]

Other than "workshops", I've never heard those other terms used at CB.

Right, they're just called workshops at CB, but they are the same as the propheets. (Our last two were also called workshops.) I believe a few of them have been removed/merged as well. Monarch has another name for them, as does Benchmark. (I think one of them is insights and the other is avatars)

Here:

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=20599&p=259977&hilit=integritas#p259977

It lines it all out, in case there is any doubt that I don't know what Im talking about regarding what is involved in CB workshops and how it compares to cedu's. Every workshop this student lists owes its existence to the same CEDU workshops. We just had different names for them. Keep in mind that the poster here is maintaining that their experience was overall positive, in case I am accused of being slanted. Rather, I want to show this post as a way of stating, CLEARLY, that the workshops CB uses are very close to the ones experienced at CEDU.

It's "funny" that this person says they don't remember much about animus. Its cedu counterpart is the one that I almost have no memory of, either. Also funny that what we *do* remember were the same parts.

Also of note is psy's assessment a few posts above that, based on his research, (which was extensive, he truly has done a lot of work on the subject of cedu clones) he finds CB to be "CEDU lite", which I agree with. My point is, shit lite is still shit, and I sure as fuck dont want to eat it.

But your[sic] copping out by saying the only valid way to see reality is to be a student. Come on, you sound smarter than that.

Not see reality, see what really happens there. Even I can't claim to know *exactly* what happens at CB, but I *do* know, based on testimony of people who were there, (whether their testimony is favorable or not, see above) that there is little deviation in terms of their "therapy" from CEDU, and I emphatically feel that CEDUs "therapy" practices accomplish nothing. They are detrimental to the psyche. (Also good thread of note: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26020 )

copping out, huh. How is it a cop out? I don't really see how I am giving up on anything. Interesting choice of words. How would it even be *feasible* for anyone to comprehensively know and understand the CB experience other than having attended?

If you were serious about being on a mission to shut the place down,

I'm not. This is a systemic issue. Shutting down this or that school wont solve the overall problem. However, I do have interest in conversing with parents and alum of cedu clones.

you'd gather some real evidence to support your belief that it's like CEDU.

I have. See above. Example, obviously. I can't possibly go through every single thread Ive read on the subject. Someone else posted about daily schedule, as well as raps (I vaguely recall them calling them request groups). And like I said before, psy is really the person to talk to when it comes to research and evidence.

There's nothing I can say to change your mind. I'm objective and have approached everything about the place with a skeptical eye.

That is good. Because I'm not interested in having my mind changed. However, I am interested, as I said before in talking with parents and alum, which I do.

As for objectivity. No. How can any parent worth their salt be objective about the welfare of their own kid? I wouldnt want parents like that.

If a parent asked my advice I'd tell them our experience and caution them to look closely and decide based on their particular situation.

Well, that sure as fuck is better than an endorsement or actively recruiting.

What exactly would  you caution someone about regarding sending their kid to CB?

Hi "program parent" with multiple screen names and personalities. You’re getting your various writing styles confused again, try to make each charcter consistent.

I'm pretty sure they are a program parent, k? If you've read any of my posts, you would see that I am violently inconsistent in my voice. Being articulate one day, smarmy and sarcastic another, downright vulgar and silly five minutes from now. It's called being multi-faceted, and most people are this way.

Fuck, man, I mean, just read some ottowa posts. Holy mother of pearl, talk about a split personality.

Program shills, however, SUCK at character development.

And then, of course, you have people like thewho, who is a shill and a program parent. But the advertising trolls always seem to stand out differently. When you try to engage them, they never seem to get beyond their initial testimony, and are redundant.

I could be wrong, though.

[Anonymous]

JD is karen reincarnated!  :jawdrop:

[try another castle]

JD is karen reincarnated!  :jawdrop:

that's what I think, too, (except that karen's not dead.. hehe) which is why I believe that they are truly a parent and not a shill.

I wonder how karen is doing, anyway. psy, do you keep in touch with her?

[Anonymous]

JD is karen reincarnated!  :jawdrop:

that's what I think, too, (except that karen's not dead.. hehe) which is why I believe that they are truly a parent and not a shill.

I wonder how karen is doing, anyway. psy, do you keep in touch with her?

I would need some serious surgery to be a Karen!

I don't know who or what Karen is. I'm not a shill, employee, recruiter, etc.

I feel badly for anyone who had to endure CEDU and I understand your skepticism regarding CB.

[Anonymous]

I don't know who or what Karen is. I'm not a shill, employee, recruiter, etc.

protest much? obviously karen is not a "what", this overcompensation of a lie makes it clear that you know perfectly well who karen in. lemme see, "who" is it around here that likes to jerk around survivors for kicks...hmm... i golly jee wonder?  :jerry:

[try another castle]

JD is karen reincarnated!  :jawdrop:

that's what I think, too, (except that karen's not dead.. hehe) which is why I believe that they are truly a parent and not a shill.

I wonder how karen is doing, anyway. psy, do you keep in touch with her?

I would need some serious surgery to be a Karen!

I don't know who or what Karen is. I'm not a shill, employee, recruiter, etc.

I feel badly for anyone who had to endure CEDU and I understand your skepticism regarding CB.

k. but I am curious about what you said earlier. what would you caution parents about? If I were to speak of a place that worked well for my own kid, but unsure for another, I would *(strongly) encourage* parents to look closely to see if it is a good fit. Why caution?

[Anonymous]

k. but I am curious about what you said earlier. what would you caution parents about? If I were to speak of a place that worked well for my own kid, but unsure for another, I would *(strongly) encourage* parents to look closely to see if it is a good fit. Why caution?

There are aspects of the program that are probably not the best for some. I mentioned one student who probably shouldn't be there and it seemed to me that the only reason they were was because the dad is an asshole.

I saw one boy at SUWS who definitely needed something else. I think the doctors failed him and his poor parents were at their wits end.

The point is, there is no one-size-fits-all.

But you want specifics so I'll try to accomodate you.

The one thing that comes to mind is if the child is not strong-willed, CB is not a good choice. If the child is hyper-impressionable and susceptible to becoming a brain-washed true believer, CB is an definitely not a good choice.

I'd also be very cautious about any child who is particularly sensitive.

I would generally caution parents about any decision regarding a TBS, wilderness or any other program. Every child is different.

[try another castle]

The point is, there is no one-size-fits-all.

exactly. And a school who believes that one size *does* fit all should be held suspect. I have yet to know of any program admissions staff, including Carlbrook's, who have said "Im afraid that this place might not be right for your kid." If you know of any instance of this happening with CB, please fill me in on the details.

"schools" with 100% acceptance rates for admission kinda freak me out.

The one thing that comes to mind is if the child is not strong-willed, CB is not a good choice. If the child is hyper-impressionable and susceptible to becoming a brain-washed true believer, CB is an definitely not a good choice.

I'd also be very cautious about any child who is particularly sensitive.

This speaks volumes. I'm not sure I would feel too comfortable sending my kid to a place if someone said "If you think they may be easily brainwashed, don't send them here."

uh, even if my kid may not be that (not exactly sure how to determine that anyway), I wouldn't be too keen on sending them to a place where there is the potential for brainwashing.

So actually, yes, totally say that if any parent asks for advice about CB.

I would generally caution parents about any decision regarding a TBS, wilderness or any other program. Every child is different.

Yes, and all programs are frighteningly similar.

Look, Ill be the first to admit that CB is no WWASPS or Straight in terms of severity, (thank god) but it's cut from the same cloth. (Not only that, it traces its roots directly back to synanon.)The underpinnings of the TBS industry are inherently flawed, and every facility in the industry bases itself off of those beliefs. If they didn't, they wouldn't be in the industry. They'd be something else. (I was in a "something else" before CEDU, so I can compare.) One of the things that happens on this forum is program ID. If a new place pops up, people will ask, "so is it a program or not"?

CB is a program.

[Anonymous]

Look, Ill be the first to admit that CB is no WWASPS or Straight in terms of severity, (
.

Don't be so sure.