Carlbrook

[Antigen]

Why thank you!

[Nihilanthic]

BRAVAMISIO!

And yeah, trouble in the bedroom... I think a lot of people would love an 'escort' called in at 3 am  :rofl:

Seems the programs just missed their calling, huh?


But in all seriousness, that seems to be the issue sidestepped so often by almost everyone in the industry, and part of the feeling I get when I think about this but poorly communicate. Simply being taken away and held somewhere else is a horrible, horrible thing, but thats not 'bad' enough to be brought up, so you gotta bring up all the abuse and pscyhological nonsense, restraints, bad food, helplessness, isolation and quackery.

But even if all of that was not there, you still have taken someone out of their home, their surroundings, their friends, their family, their comforts, their room, their posessions, their clothes, their freedom, and their parents, and taken all of that away for a long time. You took away time when they should be growing up and learning to be themselves and how to be adults (whether or not their parents and society can accept it or not :roll: ) infact, the most important years in their life for that!

Hell, also for many the best years (or only really good years) of thier life. Thats irreperable. You can rise above it or make up for it, but you can't replace it, you cant repair it, you can't fix it, just patch it, just make up for it. Its taking a LOT away from someone, just the missing out on normal family love and normal development is bad enough.

All the other shit is just some very bitter 'iceing' on that cake, so to speak. It's not just the isolation, and not just the program, and not just the parent versus child bullshit, its all of that combined and the fact that it happened during the worst part of life to do it to someone of all!

I'm glad Ginger was able to so simply put that down in text, because Ive thought it myself too, I just wasn't able to communicate it.

[TheWho]

Well Hello, Just checking in.  I have read some of the posts over the past few months which I have missed.   Seems everyone is chipping away as usual but the wall is getting bigger.  If you look at most of your posts 12 -18 months ago each of you had your own style and idiosyncratic vocabulary but this had eroded to the point where you all speak the same (with the exception of a few like Ginger who seems to keep growing and bettering herself some how and has the ability to hear both sides, not that she has given an inch on her position).  I would have bet a months pay that at least Niles would have grown and stepped outside the ?group speak? and developed his own opinions? the others, well its too bad.  You have weakened your own position, in my opinion, by not being true to yourselves and keeping your eye on what you are trying to accomplish.  You are easily side tracked by taking someone down a notch or performing group rape, its like comparing mud wrestling to a debate?? parents looking for answers or help just won?t respect your opinions or position with these types of banter.  If you are truly sincere and believe in a cause hold your sign up high, be clear on your position,  get your message out to as many people as you can, listen to their feed back and adjust.  If you put your sign down to chase a person down the street that doesn?t agree with your opinions a 1,000 cars will pass without the benefit of seeing your message.

A few years back when I was at Summer Jam at Watkins Glen ?73 (this is way before most of you) there was this guy next to me who put up a small tent and a sign that read ?$5.00 a swig/hit? next to 5 gallon jug of what appeared to be Kool-Aid or bug juice of some sort.  One out of 10 people that walked by would stop to ask what it was.  If you were a preppy he would reply ?Try it out and see for yourself just don?t drink too much or it will fuck you up for good?.  If you were a ?Dead head? he would say ?Come back when Garcia is playing and you will have the experience of your life?, if you were a seasoned head he would tell you it was simply ?Brown organic Mescaline in a high fructose juice? .  At the time I wondered why he gave everyone a different answer but years later I realized his information (message) was the same and he was being honest to everyone but he communicated it differently depending on who you were and it seemed no 2 customers were alike, this guy was a master.  His replies were simple, if you didn?t like what he was selling that was fine he didn?t push it on you.   He simply focused on those who stopped by.  The first jug was empty before the Allman Brothers took the stage and fired up ?Whipping post?!!

[Anonymous]

As if we're going to take any sort of advice from you.

[Anonymous]

He should of posted anon, I might have actually read the damn thing.  :rofl:

[ZenAgent]

Well Hello, Just checking in.  I have read some of the posts over the past few months which I have missed.   Seems everyone is chipping away as usual but the wall is getting bigger.  If you look at most of your posts 12 -18 months ago each of you had your own style and idiosyncratic vocabulary but this had eroded to the point where you all speak the same (with the exception of a few like Ginger who seems to keep growing and bettering herself some how and has the ability to hear both sides, not that she has given an inch on her position).  I would have bet a months pay that at least Niles would have grown and stepped outside the ?group speak? and developed his own opinions? the others, well its too bad.  You have weakened your own position, in my opinion, by not being true to yourselves and keeping your eye on what you are trying to accomplish.  You are easily side tracked by taking someone down a notch or performing group rape, its like comparing mud wrestling to a debate?? parents looking for answers or help just won?t respect your opinions or position with these types of banter.  If you are truly sincere and believe in a cause hold your sign up high, be clear on your position,  get your message out to as many people as you can, listen to their feed back and adjust.  If you put your sign down to chase a person down the street that doesn?t agree with your opinions a 1,000 cars will pass without the benefit of seeing your message.

A few years back when I was at Summer Jam at Watkins Glen ?73 (this is way before most of you) there was this guy next to me who put up a small tent and a sign that read ?$5.00 a swig/hit? next to 5 gallon jug of what appeared to be Kool-Aid or bug juice of some sort.  One out of 10 people that walked by would stop to ask what it was.  If you were a preppy he would reply ?Try it out and see for yourself just don?t drink too much or it will fuck you up for good?.  If you were a ?Dead head? he would say ?Come back when Garcia is playing and you will have the experience of your life?, if you were a seasoned head he would tell you it was simply ?Brown organic Mescaline in a high fructose juice? .  At the time I wondered why he gave everyone a different answer but years later I realized his information (message) was the same and he was being honest to everyone but he communicated it differently depending on who you were and it seemed no 2 customers were alike, this guy was a master.  His replies were simple, if you didn?t like what he was selling that was fine he didn?t push it on you.   He simply focused on those who stopped by.  The first jug was empty before the Allman Brothers took the stage and fired up ?Whipping post?!!

Phil Ochs was a fucking lush who spent his last days starting bar fights for the hell of it.  He got the shit beaten out of him on a regular basis, then he died.  Pick your heroes better.  I've got a different set of lyrics for "Sugar Magnolia"...

Sugar diabetes,
glucose spiking high,
my big ass is gonna die
Saw a Snickers bar under the bed,
smoked heroin, now JerrBear is dead.

[TheWho]

Finally,  exactly!! and why did he get the shit beat out of him all the time?  Most people wouldn?t go back after that.  Why didn?t he change his ways?  Why not write some more songs and become rich and live the good life?  By Joe I think someone has been reading!!

[Anonymous]

Well, you do certainly know a lot about Koolaid.

[ZenAgent]

Why not write some more songs and become rich and live the good life?  

Umm...because the songs he did write sucked like a Hoover and he woulda made more money as a butcher?  Now...who you jivin' with that Cozmic debris?

[TheWho]

Why not write some more songs and become rich and live the good life?  

Umm...because the songs he did write sucked like a Hoover and he woulda made more money as a butcher?  Now...who you jivin' with that Cozmic debris?

I am sorry you judge people so harshly, this is more a reflection on your position than his.  So he didn?t make it after the political action of anti- Viet Nam, civil rights movements and the struggle with the entire social order abated in the early 70?s he stuck by his beliefs and when people stopped listening he lost himself, spiraled downward and finally hung himself on April 9, 1976 (?and no he never went to a TBS so don?t add him to the list) .  So yes you can point fingers at him and call him a lousy song writer and a loser but he worked at what he knew best and did the best he could, but he had a large following and was respected by his peers.

[Anonymous]

Just gotta ask:
Where have you been WHO?
And why didn't you stay there?

[TheWho]

Just gotta ask:
Where have you been WHO?
And why didn't you stay there?

I was in eastern Europe and Central Asia for 6 months establishing a support system (platform) for future business operations.  I didn?t stay there because I don?t add value and cant contribute and found I cant grow a business there using a translator.  I found it is better to hire local people and let them do what they do best and manage them from here.  It is costing me a ton, but it is a venture and can be written off, but business is taking off over there so breaking even or better is probable.  Thanks for asking!

[try another castle]

Karen, I'm about ready to write a bot to automatically respond with the obvious alternative.

Do it! It sure would save the rest of us the energy of having to go around in circles for 150 pages. Karen-bot 2000.

I'll QA it for you. I'm good at breaking things.  

[AtomicAnt]

I suppose if Ochs had been sent to a program, his suicide might have been prevented, or at least delayed. I also suppose he never would have written a song worthy of mention. After all, there is no way a program graduate would ever write songs critical of society or the government. Such disrespect is never tolerated in programs.

[ZenAgent]

I am sorry you judge people so harshly, this is more a reflection on your position than his.

I didn't consider it a harsh judgement.  Unlike most people, I'm aware of who the guy was, I listened to his music, and after giving it a fair chance I reached the conclusion it was dreck.  Let me define my position more clearly:  I don't like whining two-chord folky protest music unless it's Bob Dylan.  I still wish someone would shove that harmonica up his ass.

 So he didn?t make it after the political action of anti- Viet Nam, civil rights movements and the struggle with the entire social order abated in the early 70?s he stuck by his beliefs and when people stopped listening he lost himself, spiraled downward and finally hung himself on April 9, 1976

Yeah, a lot of people lost their gigs when the hippies realized all they were getting from their "movements" was a host of venereal diseases.  Thanks, hippies gave us (EDITED BY ZEN:  HIPPIES GAVE US YUPPIES)

Judy Collins went to hell, Joan Baez bit it, and no one lost any sleep.  I'd rather slide down a twenty-foot razor blade than hear  that Baez woman croak "Joe Hill" again.  By the way, which closely-held belief led Phil into bars to act like a violent hillbilly?

 So yes you can point fingers at him and call him a lousy song writer and a loser but he worked at what he knew best and did the best he could, but he had a large following and was respected by his peers.

I can't point a finger at him.  He's dead, he's folk dust blowin' in the wind.  I am extending a finger in your honor, however.  Music would have profited if Phil Ochs had become a professional bar brawler and left guitars alone.  Dubya Bush has a large following and is respected by his peers, and I couldn't give a shit about him, either.

Peace and love, Moonbeam.