Wow, more ad hominem bullcrap! For those who dont know what it means, here ya go:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie ... minem.htmlFor those unwilling to click, heres the abridged version of it:
1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
3. Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
Now that you learned how to debate, lets get down to business.
You give no details, and no specifics. Perfectly valid criticisms and grievances are ignored and discredited instead of addressed. Clinging to "we did the right thing" and not even stopping to analyze the facts (if you even know all of them) does not give a very positive impression of yourself. It gives off the impression that youd rather be right, than admit you made a mistake. This is extremely hypocritical when the basis of what a child in a program goes through is being forced to admit theyre wrong and make things right.
Then, you make further attacks against me or "my kind" instead of simply addressing the issues brought up! You simply fall back on the only way to know anything about it is to have experienced it yourself, which is a commonly used arguement to defend programs and/or the seminars they employ.
Then, you go with MORE victim-mindset defensiveness, about struggling parents, and then make another ad hominem attack on us, and THEN throw in a strawman for good measure, as if we're calling all of them "alone, crazy or bad parents".
Our grievances, to repeat and collect it in one place for convenience, is that the programs are secretive, vague, and extremely nonspecific. That most parents have no idea of what goes on with their children. That communication is controlled, censored, or simply cut off, and that if it is allowed that the parent is told that the child will lie to get out, period. That is suspicious and implies they have something to hide!
None of the supporting parents seem to be able to explain how the program works and/or how the changes that happened were brought about to their children and themselves. The only thing said is that the emotional experience of a seminar is profound for a parent, more profound for a child, that you have to go in it to understand it, and that you are reccomended to go through one.
Based on what facts HAVE come out of them, they appear to be a mirror of the sort of seminar that Lifespring, EST, SEED/Straight and Synannon used decades ago. The crux of how they work is instigating emotional breakdowns, also known as psychological regression, via stressing the preson with social pressure, humiliation, bringing out past suffering and then making them disclose and share and live-through such past suffering to the group, and various sorts of games and tricks called "processes" that amount to what is colloquially known as a "mind game".
So, while you can continue to make emotional appeals, ad hominem attacks upon me, other individuals, or the group that you perceive fornits to be, Ive laid it out here as clearly as I can. Your continued antics instead of simply addressing what we have to say dont make you look very good. Even if its a lost cause to get through to you, people who havent yet been indoctrinated into this will see what is going on and avoid it or pull out their child before its too late.
And yes, it has happened. And it will continue to happen as long as I live and this problem exists, which will probably be until long after I die.
People who are willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security.
--Benjamin Franklin
