Taken from Teen Rescue website. (Fucked UP SHIT)

[Anonymous]

tell me what happened to your friends.  lets say it was you and two buddies.  did one die of a cocain overdose, and did the other go to juvie for stabbing someone?





the guys i smoked cigrarrettes with, like your smoking buddies went on to school and had a normal life, and got good jobs.

Same with my friends. That's the way it is with most kids. They explore, they mature, they move on to bigger and greater things. Most kids just need time.

why are you still not reading. you are again making my point.  your friends, my friends, they moved on and had a good life.

my realative's friends are dead and felons.  how much more time you think they need :smile:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-22 13:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I'm out of this discussion."

lol, saw that one comming

NEXT

you dont even know what the subject is.  lets review how you went down in flames.

my point:  some kids need alternative education

your point:  all alternative education is bad

my retort:  example of a child who i know and believe needs alternative education, "maybe original poster's son is the same way"

where you went wrong:  you should have (had you been a little wiser) offered better alternatives to alternative schooling.  instead you tried to convince me that a child classified and diagnosed by many experts, of whom i have intimate knowledge and who you have never met isnt as bad as everyone thinks.  he just needs more rules.  he NEEDED more rules 4 years ago, now he needs a chnage of enviorment and a rude awakening about who runs the household (remember the parents can pull him out any time, all he has to do is make up his schooling and they would bring him home in a second)

whenever something starts with "all Xs are such that" it is usually  wrong.  go read up on prediate logic.

btw, the fact that you hate my logic and i love shooting down yours is yet another bad sign for your case

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-22 13:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-07-22 13:33:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I'm out of this discussion."

lol, saw that one comming



NEXT



you dont even know what the subject is.  lets review how you went down in flames.



my point:  some kids need alternative education



your point:  all alternative education is bad



my retort:  example of a child who i know and believe needs alternative education, "maybe original poster's son is the same way"



where you went wrong:  you should have (had you been a little wiser) offered better alternatives to alternative schooling.  instead you tried to convince me that a child classified and diagnosed by many experts, of whom i have intimate knowledge and who you have never met isnt as bad as everyone thinks.  he just needs more rules.  he NEEDED more rules 4 years ago, now he needs a chnage of enviorment and a rude awakening about who runs the household (remember the parents can pull him out any time, all he has to do is make up his schooling and they would bring him home in a second)



whenever something starts with "all Xs are such that" it is usually  wrong.  go read up on prediate logic.



btw, the fact that you hate my logic and i love shooting down yours is yet another bad sign for your case



"

Man, you really are that immature and pathetic, aren't you? and I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there. You try to make an expert out of yourself, shoot down anyone who doesn't agree with you, and pledge allegiance to the Teen Abuse Industry. No intelligence, no critical thinking, nothing but the need to argue. Like a small child. Maybe you should read some more about pediatric logic... you might find it all too familiar.

You lack reading comprehension skills. You lack debating skills. Most of all, you lack thinking skills. Pathetic.

[Antigen]

Ok, here's a thought. Maybe I'm projecting just a little. But I see the same theme played out over and over and I start to suspect that I can't be the only one. So here goes.

Here we have this kid w/ above average ability at test taking and impressing adults (if you're really into research, check into the validity of the Intelligence Quotient test... or total lack thereof) The kid hits the earliest stages of puberty and, like so many kids do, he begins to notice that the system into which he's been cast is pretty lame. Think Roger Waters here.

So, what's a kid to do? He opts out, challenging the keepers of the assylum to prove, in some way, that being a full time stoner is any less legitimate than being a compliant boob.

But, rather than acknowledge that the kid's got a point and maybe encourage him to do something better than just taking his place in line to the meat grinder, the keepers of the assylum collude to try and force him to what they deem to be the lessor of the two banefully, tragically, waste-of-a-lifetime evils.

If you can't see any but these two horrible options for this kid, I can't help you. Living well takes some imagination.

America when will you be angelic
When will you take off your clothes....
America after all it is you and I who are perfect
Not the next world.
--Allen Ginsberg

[Anonymous]

Man, you really are that immature and pathetic, aren't you? and I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there. You try to make an expert out of yourself, shoot down anyone who doesn't agree with you, and pledge allegiance to the Teen Abuse Industry. No intelligence, no critical thinking, nothing but the need to argue. Like a small child. Maybe you should read some more about pediatric logic... you might find it all too familiar.



You lack reading comprehension skills. You lack debating skills. Most of all, you lack thinking skills. Pathetic. "

riiiittttteeeee, not much for me to respond to there :smile:

im the one who is insulting?

i dont shoot down anyone, i shoot down you.

i disagree with antigen for instance, but i can make conversation with him because of where his side of the conversation goes.  as a result i can ask him a question and know that he will give a response that even if i dont agree with, i will be able to respect.

dont forget:  my point:  some kids need alternative education

your point:  all alternative education is bad.

i mean, come on, do we really need continue?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-22 13:51:00, Antigen wrote:


Here we have this kid w/ above average ability at test taking and impressing adults (if you're really into research, check into the validity of the Intelligence Quotient test... or total lack thereof)

i know all about the knocks on mr stanford and binet's big idea, and ill have you know i score very will on the B.I.T.C.H. test :wink:  seriously though, i used IQ as a shortcut to saying the kid really is smart as a whip.  please just take my word for it.  i dont want to make this about my realtive, id rather stick to OP and whether Alt Ed is ever OK, but for now lets proceed.

The kid hits the earliest stages of puberty and, like so many kids do, he begins to notice that the system into which he's been cast is pretty lame. Think Roger Waters here.

so far so good.  just like me.  i love floyd and i didnt want to be another brick in the wall either,

So, what's a kid to do? He opts out, challenging the keepers of the assylum to prove, in some way, that being a full time stoner is any less legitimate than being a compliant boob.

more power to him.  as far as high school goes in 24 and i still agree, so it must be true.

But, rather than acknowledge that the kid's got a point and maybe encourage him to do something better than just taking his place in line to the meat grinder, the keepers of the assylum collude to try and force him to what they deem to be the lessor of the two banefully, tragically, waste-of-a-lifetime evils.

i gotta disagree here.  his only other real hobby is skateboarding which his parents did everything to encourage.  they got him a computer hoping to expand his interests, but he just uses it to set up meetings with his friends when its runaway time.

If you can't see any but these two horrible options for this kid, I can't help you. Living well takes some imagination.

if it were my kid here's what i would do.  "frankie, if you wanna smoke pot thats fine, i'll talk to you about responsibility with drugs and explain the difference between unwinding and being social, and having a dependence, but you gotta do something for me first..."

like his parents i would probably draw something of a line about the drug usage though.

"you are not allowed to smoke pot until you prove that you can handle SOME responsibility"

just like he shouldnt be allowed to drive 'till he can prove he wont drive drunk.

"show me that you can stay sober for one semester, get good grades, and above all respect me and your mother, and i will kinda just stop testing you"

the difference between me and this kid at the same age is pretty simple.  i knew when i went to far, and i backed off.  like a few people have correctly ascertained, he's figured out with his parents he can keep upping the ante and they will fold.  only they wont fold on this one (i wish they took a stand on his grades primarily, but this is where they drew the line in the sand)

you ask this kid about his goals and positive things he accomplished and they only thing i can say is that he responds to you like a child.

you ask him why he wont, just for one marking period, stay sober and get good grades, he says "no one has given me a good reason to" as if he needs to be given a reason TRY to do that most basic thing which his parents ask of him.

for all this kids potential, he is seriously hindered in certain aspects of his emotional development.  like a preteen he still sees himself as the center of the universe.

if he were my kid i have little doubt he wouldnt need boarding school, but with the parents he's got....

if it were my kid, he'd be going his own laundry and cooking his own food the minute he tried to tell me he doesnt value my input as a parent.

his parents are just afraid by doing this he will hurt them more.  when i say "hurt them more" i used to mean only emotionaly but the situation (caused by the dynamic in the family of course) has spiraled so far out of control that this kids got no problem just hitting his parents when they stand in front of the door and say:  "you havent earned the right to go out today"

were it me, i wouldnt spare the switch, but to see these parents, who love their kid so much and tell him so everyday, totally incapable of controlling him, its just sad.  their health was suffering greatly.

i do think this school is a copout for the parents but the fact remains:  they lack the skills to raise the monster they've created, and maybe part of the problem is that were so concerned about "the children" in this contry that the children think the world owes them something.

i say its time for frankies parents to worry about frankies parents.  he wants to prove how much control he has (he does run the household), maybe they should prove they got a little control left themselves, and now that they can finally leave home for a second, they'll go on their first vacation in years, and even though they were crappy parents, they earned it.  they got the A for effort weve been giving our kids for years.

[Antigen]

You keep transposing the o and u in quote.

The cultural hunger for a substance that lets you hold affordable conversations with God, watch walls melt, breathe colors, and explore your psyche remains unsated.
--Ryan Grim for Slate, April 1, 2004

[Anonymous]

kids should be doing their own laundry and cooking their own food (or at least helping in the kitchen) soon as they're old enough to know how, anyway.  I used to nanny, I thought it was the most pathetic thing that a 13 yr old boy didn't know how to use a washing machine!  Parents want their kids to "prove their responsibility" but don't want to teach them how.  For some reason it seems mothers have a way of babying their sons, then they don't know what to do when the boy goes through his "tough" stage, trying to assert his independence. I found it interesting that in the link the original poster gave for what to do if your teen runs, it says-



"As of 2000, you, the parent still has the right to place your child into a program of your choice for the healing and restoring of that child."



woohoo I has the right!!  Gonna go an' get THAT child 'ight now!
It just goes to show the type of people that write these things.

[Anonymous]

[qoute]

"You keep transposing the o and u in quote.
[/qoute]

Lair!

[Anonymous]

woohoo I has the right!!  Gonna go an' get THAT child 'ight now!
It just goes to show the type of people that write these things. "

i agree with your post but i think its more of a testament to the type of parents out there.  theyre reading that and saying "i do?!"

[bandit1978]

Three Springs-

I went to private (v. expensive) university- I know more than a few girls who worked as strippers or escorts to pay their tuition.  Nothing wrong with that.  

Had I needed money for tuition, I would have done the same thing.  Perhaps for more spending money...  It makes much more sense than to work at the mall or something.  

Sex workers provide an important service to the community.

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-22 14:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-07-22 13:51:00, Antigen wrote:

more power to him.  as far as high school goes in 24 and i still agree, so it must be true.

I love you, man!  :smokin:

If you can't see any but these two horrible options for this kid, I can't help you. Living well takes some imagination.

if it were my kid here's what i would do.  "frankie, if you wanna smoke pot thats fine, i'll talk to you about responsibility with drugs and explain the difference between unwinding and being social, and having a dependence, but you gotta do something for me first..."

Ok, playing the devil's advocate here (or, as it were, the alleged brat's advocate) "No, first you show me some reason why I should do anything for you. What have you gotten for your trouble?"

like his parents i would probably draw something of a line about the drug usage though.



"you are not allowed to smoke pot until you prove that you can handle SOME responsibility"

Not likely to work. The only thing that ever kept me away from really ruinous drug habits was firsthand observation of authentic stoners, burnd out acid heads, junkies and drunks. Of those, seems that alcohol is the only one that can really take you unawares. The rest seem to have really worked at getting where they are. I tell my own kids to practice moderation and to pay close attention to ppl who have been at it for decades; both for examples of what to do and what not to do.

just like he shouldnt be allowed to drive 'till he can prove he wont drive drunk.

Is that how we do it? Where? Where I come from, you get a license if you can prove road rules knowledge and minimum skill. You don't have to prove you won't drive drunk. How can you prove a negative, anyway? In the real world, you only get spanked if you do drive drunk and then either mess up or get busted before you do. If you want your kid to not drive drunk, you have to demonstrate that they can trust you in all respects to get them home if (when) their plans fall through and they're otherwise stranded. (speaking from expeirience here). Oh, and never try and lecture a drunk! It's like brining a knife to a gun fight w/ a man in full body armor. Wait till morning or afternoon.

"show me that you can stay sober for one semester, get good grades, and above all respect me and your mother, and i will kinda just stop testing you"

Back again. Show me why it's worth my time and trouble to get the teacher to give me a good grade; stoned or sober. I gave my own younger cousin the same advice many, many years ago when his parents were sweating him. It missed the point, but he wound up being a compliant, military boob anyway, so it was probably a waste of breath on my part anyway.

the difference between me and this kid at the same age is pretty simple.  i knew when i went to far, and i backed off.  like a few people have correctly ascertained, he's figured out with his parents he can keep upping the ante and they will fold.  only they wont fold on this one (i wish they took a stand on his grades primarily, but this is where they drew the line in the sand)



you ask this kid about his goals and positive things he accomplished and they only thing i can say is that he responds to you like a child.

Well, he is a child! Wait till you're 40, watching 20yo's fumbling through life, thinking they're all grown up!

Tell him about Admiral Farragut or Mark Twain or Thomas Jefferson. It's not a stretch at all to be an acomplished adult by the age of 15 or so. But, if he's going to reject the family's and society's plans for him, then rather than insist that he not do that, why not challenge him to aspire to something better?

you ask him why he wont, just for one marking period, stay sober and get good grades, he says "no one has given me a good reason to" as if he needs to be given a reason TRY to do that most basic thing which his parents ask of him.

Well, think of what you're asking. Typical school kid has to get up early, every day, and dedicated themselves to something like a job w/o pay; aka slave labour. Hell yeah, if I'd thought of it when I was 11, I'd damned sure want a good reason to jump through those hoops. Does it really take that much imagination to come up w/ plausible reasons for doing that?

There are perfectly good, plausible reasons, you know. They're just not obvious to all kids.
 

for all this kids potential, he is seriously hindered in certain aspects of his emotional development.  like a preteen he still sees himself as the center of the universe.



if he were my kid i have little doubt he wouldnt need boarding school, but with the parents he's got....

But we're not talking about a good boarding school. Have they looked into the Grotan school? Or how about something a little more challenging, like The Sudburry School? Do you understand the difference between reform school and authentic, academic boarding school? Never mind the marketing. Ask for references!

if it were my kid, he'd be going his own laundry and cooking his own food the minute he tried to tell me he doesnt value my input as a parent.

If he were my kid, he'd be doing those things as a matter of course as soon as I deemed him able to do so. Ask any of my kids. I only do those things for them when I deem their alternative commitments to be more worthy of their time than mine.

his parents are just afraid by doing this he will hurt them more.  when i say "hurt them more" i used to mean only emotionaly but the situation (caused by the dynamic in the family of course) has spiraled so far out of control that this kids got no problem just hitting his parents when they stand in front of the door and say:  "you havent earned the right to go out today"

The right to go out? We're still back at the original conflict here. Everyone has the right to come and go and do as they please, provided they don't violate the rights of others. We're still talking about trying to force a smart kid to accept an unpaid job that he's rejected on lack of merit. When will the alleged adults in this story start making a solid, logical case for something better than the two opitions this kid seems to think he has to choose from?

were it me, i wouldnt spare the switch, but to see these parents, who love their kid so much and tell him so everyday, totally incapable of controlling him, its just sad.  their health was suffering greatly.

Well, what is growing up but throwing off parental controls? Seems asif this kid already views himself as master of his own fate. If you want to influence him positively, forget about strong arm controls. Start thinking about appealing to his sense of reason and intillect.

i do think this school is a copout for the parents but the fact remains:  they lack the skills to raise the monster they've created, and maybe part of the problem is that were so concerned about "the children" in this contry that the children think the world owes them something.

Well, just see if you can stay on good terms w/ the school so that you don't lose contact w/ the kid. He'll likely need your support and understanding very shortly.

i say its time for frankies parents to worry about frankies parents.  he wants to prove how much control he has (he does run the household), maybe they should prove they got a little control left themselves, and now that they can finally leave home for a second, they'll go on their first vacation in years, and even though they were crappy parents, they earned it.  they got the A for effort weve been giving our kids for years."

That was my idea when I left home for the first time at age 14. My big mistake was poor planning. I should have hooked up w/ some way to provide for my own basic needs in the month or so it took me to take the high road to my sister for advice. Looking back, I cry bitterly over the wealth I could have gotten out of a bunch of dumb Deadheads by selling them tokens and legends, if only I'd had at least that much direction.

Oh well. At any rate, you're obviously a thinking man and very much concerned for your younger cousin. Till you get it all figured out, just be careful not to lose contact. Sounds like this kid could use a credible, respectable mentor more than anything. I just hope he's got the rocks to resist the brainwasing I hear tell of at the Family School. Isn't it an offshoot of DeSisto?

No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-22 14:49:00, Anonymous wrote:

"[qoute]



"You keep transposing the o and u in quote.

[/qoute]



Lair!"

ROFLMAO!!!  :rofl:

The legislature is to society as a physician is to the patient. If a physician ignored side effects of medications like today's legislators ignore the side effects of their legislation, the physician would be accused of malpractice. I accuse today's legislators (with rare exception) of legislative malpractice. Many of the ills that are so obvious in our society are a direct result of previous legislation. Their solution? More laws!
-- John A. Bennett, DO

[Antigen]

Just a note. Much of the research referenced in popular media is total and utter bullshit; most especially wrt the highly politicized area of substance abuse.

Do the kids who are put on ritalin and adderal come to a screeching developmental hault? No? How come? Yes? Then why do we put them on it?

Check your sources if you're going to quote them. You'll be surprised.

In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.
--James Madison, U.S. President

[Anonymous]

it were my kid here's what i would do.  "frankie, if you wanna smoke pot thats fine, i'll talk to you about responsibility with drugs and explain the difference between unwinding and being social, and having a dependence, but you gotta do something for me first..."

Ok, playing the devil's advocate here (or, as it were, the alleged brat's advocate) "No, first you show me some reason why I should do anything for you. What have you gotten for your trouble?"

thats where the shrinking world comes in.  i would have started years ago shrinking his world, and the fact that i dont instantly crucify him for being caught smoking weed will be cool in and of itself.  its more like what you wont get for my trouble.

----------------------------------------

like his parents i would probably draw something of a line about the drug usage though.

"you are not allowed to smoke pot until you prove that you can handle SOME responsibility"

Not likely to work. The only thing that ever kept me away from really ruinous drug habits was firsthand observation of authentic stoners, burnd out acid heads, junkies and drunks. Of those, seems that alcohol is the only one that can really take you unawares. The rest seem to have really worked at getting where they are. I tell my own kids to practice moderation and to pay close attention to ppl who have been at it for decades; both for examples of what to do and what not to do.

i still think im pretty liberal for letting him slide on the reefer, but like anything else my kids gotta earn the right.  nothing is free and thats a big part of it.

------------------------------
just like he shouldnt be allowed to drive 'till he can prove he wont drive drunk.

Is that how we do it? Where? Where I come from, you get a license if you can prove road rules knowledge and minimum skill. You don't have to prove you won't drive drunk. How can you prove a negative, anyway?....

i hope my kid would have the wherewithall to walk to the DMV and get his own licence, sure, but how will a full time highschool student buy his own car...

In the real world, you only get spanked if you do drive drunk and then either mess up or get busted before you do. If you want your kid to not drive drunk, you have to demonstrate that they can trust you in all respects to get them home if (when) their plans fall through and they're otherwise stranded. (speaking from expeirience here). Oh, and never try and lecture a drunk! It's like brining a knife to a gun fight w/ a man in full body armor. Wait till morning or afternoon.

im with you there
--------------------------------------------
"show me that you can stay sober for one semester, get good grades, and above all respect me and your mother, and i will kinda just stop testing you"

Back again. Show me why it's worth my time and trouble to get the teacher to give me a good grade; stoned or sober. I gave my own younger cousin the same advice many, many years ago when his parents were sweating him. It missed the point, but he wound up being a compliant, military boob anyway, so it was probably a waste of breath on my part anyway.

why, because my kid has a healthy fear of me.  not to say i will hit him (much), and i will combine that with some positive reinforcement for good grades.  "son, your job is to do well enough in school to save mom and me the trouble of paying tuition.  till then, ill pay you for As."  this way its not so slave labory,

----------------------------------

the difference between me and this kid at the same age is pretty simple.  i knew when i went to far, and i backed off.  like a few people have correctly ascertained, he's figured out with his parents he can keep upping the ante and they will fold.  only they wont fold on this one (i wish they took a stand on his grades primarily, but this is where they drew the line in the sand)

you ask this kid about his goals and positive things he accomplished and they only thing i can say is that he responds to you like a child.

Well, he is a child! Wait till you're 40, watching 20yo's fumbling through life, thinking they're all grown up!"

i dont mean to sound arrogant, but most 40 year olds would at least like to have my income.  i see what you mean though.  us 20 somethings tend to fumble from time to time.

Tell him about Admiral Farragut or Mark Twain or Thomas Jefferson. It's not a stretch at all to be an acomplished adult by the age of 15 or so. But, if he's going to reject the family's and society's plans for him, then rather than insist that he not do that, why not challenge him to aspire to something better?

once again youre right  ill contest one thing.  when i say he responds like a child, i mean like a child that is 5 years younger than him.  before he used to say i wanna be a power ranger, then he wanted to be a pro skateboarder, now he just wants to be left alone by his overbearing (really way to lenient parents).  

i tried, when tutoring him, to expand his world a bit.  computers, welding, that kind of thing.  he like electricity but his goal is to get into the union cuz he thinks that means no work and guarenteed income.  but with my kid i bet i would succeed.

--------------------------------
you ask him why he wont, just for one marking period, stay sober and get good grades, he says "no one has given me a good reason to" as if he needs to be given a reason TRY to do that most basic thing which his parents ask of him.

Well, think of what you're asking. Typical school kid has to get up early, every day, and dedicated themselves to something like a job w/o pay; aka slave labour. Hell yeah, if I'd thought of it when I was 11, I'd damned sure want a good reason to jump through those hoops. Does it really take that much imagination to come up w/ plausible reasons for doing that?

here's the reason his parents have tried that werent good enough:  because i will bestow rewards upon you.  because i will let you go out whenever you want and stay out on non-school nights as you chose.  because i will not crawl up your butt, and let you live your life if you can only show me you are an adult.

There are perfectly good, plausible reasons, you know. They're just not obvious to all kids.

i like to think i'd come up with some good ones for my fictitious child.

-------------------------
for all this kids potential, he is seriously hindered in certain aspects of his emotional development.  like a preteen he still sees himself as the center of the universe.

if he were my kid i have little doubt he wouldnt need boarding school, but with the parents he's got....

But we're not talking about a good boarding school. Have they looked into the Grotan school? Or how about something a little more challenging, like The Sudburry School? Do you understand the difference between reform school and authentic, academic boarding school? Never mind the marketing. Ask for references!

unfortunately his parents didnt do much looking into on their own but they got an educational consultant to do the research for her, but i dont trust anyone with "consultant" in their titile so here i am looking for people w/ experience.

----------------------
if it were my kid, he'd be going his own laundry and cooking his own food the minute he tried to tell me he doesnt value my input as a parent.

If he were my kid, he'd be doing those things as a matter of course as soon as I deemed him able to do so. Ask any of my kids. I only do those things for them when I deem their alternative commitments to be more worthy of their time than mine.

you sound like a good parent.  i agree but keep in mind, my relative got caught smoking weed at 11.  i dont think i was allowed to play with the stove at 11 (not that i didnt want to).  in any case, he woulda had to learn at that point.

-------------

his parents are just afraid by doing this he will hurt them more.  when i say "hurt them more" i used to mean only emotionaly but the situation (caused by the dynamic in the family of course) has spiraled so far out of control that this kids got no problem just hitting his parents when they stand in front of the door and say:  "you havent earned the right to go out today"

The right to go out? We're still back at the original conflict here. Everyone has the right to come and go and do as they please, provided they don't violate the rights of others. We're still talking about trying to force a smart kid to accept an unpaid job that he's rejected on lack of merit. When will the alleged adults in this story start making a solid, logical case for something better than the two opitions this kid seems to think he has to choose from?

youve hopefully read my comments about the options he was given, and you see that to his parents credit they did try to make it more than slave labor and increase the rewards for doing right by school.  that went to the back burner with the caught-smoking-weed-at-11 and now i refuse to pass a piss test.  i wish they had laid off the DT and concentrated more on school, but weed was their line in the sand and here we are.

i will say this:  anyone has a right to come and go as they please BUT when they prove as my relative has that they cannot make a responsible descision when going out, well i as a parent have a right to take their right-to-party away.

you dont elt a toddler wander into the street cuz he is not mature enough to cross on his own.

letting an 11 year old who is caught smoking weed come and go as he pleases is a lot like that.

dont get me wrong, i got nothing against the grass, but when someone feels ok bucking the system in that way at 11, that is a bit scary.

---------------------------

>were it me, i wouldnt spare the switch, but to see these parents, who love their kid so much and tell him so everyday, totally incapable of controlling him, its just sad.  their health was suffering greatly.

Well, what is growing up but throwing off parental controls? Seems asif this kid already views himself as master of his own fate. If you want to influence him positively, forget about strong arm controls. Start thinking about appealing to his sense of reason and intillect.

they mostly appeal to his emotions to guilt him into acting right.  and also, its not like you wanna teach the lesson that you can fail at life and play video games all day.

his parents dont think that way, but i see your point.  then again i'd be pretty pissed if my kid tried to push me out of the way and tell me i cant make him go to his room, and infact he's gonna leave.

i think the best way to appeal to his intellect at that point is have the back of my hand administer a quick lesson about action consequence.  he will have a better grasp of logic for it.

of course my fictitius kid, at that point, listens when i say he fucked up.

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i do think this school is a copout for the parents but the fact remains:  they lack the skills to raise the monster they've created, and maybe part of the problem is that were so concerned about "the children" in this contry that the children think the world owes them something.

Well, just see if you can stay on good terms w/ the school so that you don't lose contact w/ the kid. He'll likely need your support and understanding very shortly.

to be honest, im concerned that they dont let him talk much to family.  i already talked to the school about letting me speak with him and they agreed.  i want to tell him to take on extra classes to see if he can get caught up in school and get out of there ASAP.  im used to the little bastard, i dont want to see him gone for too long.

i dont like the idea that "its an 18 month program cuz hes an addict that needs to be reformed."  he just needs the responsibility and respect, and everything will fall into place (though he will probably still take massive bong tokes with his boys)

i also fear that they try hard to keep the kid there for the whole time.  right now im just being supportive of his parents, but when i get some interaction with the kid, if i feel like he's changed, ill put the idea in their head to trust their gut more than the school if they feel like the kid is ready to come out.  

im already prepping them "look if in 18 months hes a straight A student on his way to a good school, who says please and thank you, and above all respects you (his folks).  

let him smoke a joint with his buds from time to time"  they just say, fine but not in my house.

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i say its time for frankies parents to worry about frankies parents.  he wants to prove how much control he has (he does run the household), maybe they should prove they got a little control left themselves, and now that they can finally leave home for a second, they'll go on their first vacation in years, and even though they were crappy parents, they earned it.  they got the A for effort weve been giving our kids for years

That was my idea when I left home for the first time at age 14. My big mistake was poor planning. I should have hooked up w/ some way to provide for my own basic needs in the month or so it took me to take the high road to my sister for advice. Looking back, I cry bitterly over the wealth I could have gotten out of a bunch of dumb Deadheads by selling them tokens and legends, if only I'd had at least that much direction.

Oh well. At any rate, you're obviously a thinking man and very much concerned for your younger cousin. Till you get it all figured out, just be careful not to lose contact. Sounds like this kid could use a credible, respectable mentor more than anything. I just hope he's got the rocks to resist the brainwasing I hear tell of at the Family School. Isn't it an offshoot of DeSisto?

im not sure about desito ill look into it.  thanks for the advice, and feel free to keep giving.  you are obviously a great dad/mom/guardian.  if i ever do have kids i'd want them to hang out with yours.

i know i must sound arrogant having no kids and talking about how i would raise mine, but i honestly beleive, if i decide not to do the world a favor and have children, i would make a good parent.

as for my cousin, i only wish i had been able to get through to him a bit more.  his parents great idea when i was tutoring him was to have me dole out the phnishments because they didnt want to be the bad guys.  big mistake.  after that and before that he would listen to me, but i couldnt get passed the influence of his friends.

im a hypocrite for trying to make him not smoke pot, anyway, but i knew his parents wouldnt back down on it and now his ass got sent away...