John D. Reuben and SavingTeens.org

[Whooter]

Yeah, yeah.....we know....you're just a simple survivor parent claiming to have raised an at-risk teen.  

And my monetary motive would be....what?

You are the one who brought up the money I didnt.  Maybe you would deny your daughter help because you want to protect your retirement nest egg and denied her help hoping she would make it through somehow on her own, who knows, you may be selfish.  Many parents don't want to gamble on their childs outcome and seek help for them proactively.  But you brought it up not me.



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[Anne Bonney]

Yeah, yeah.....we know....you're just a simple survivor parent claiming to have raised an at-risk teen.  

And my monetary motive would be....what?

You are the one who brought up the money I didnt.  Maybe you would deny your daughter help because you want to protect your retirement nest egg and denied her help hoping she would make it through somehow on her own, who knows, you may be selfish.

Well, that might explain a decision not to place her in a program (although that wasn't it...I wasn't about to subject her to the bullshit that I was), but it sure wouldn't explain my continued posting here - unlike you.  If you are John Reuben, then you have a monetary interest in staying here to defend the industry itself because you've decided to make your living off of it, even though it at the very least, it didn't help your son and at the worst contributed to his despair.  How sad for him.

 

Many parents don't want to gamble on their childs outcome and seek help for them proactively.  But you brought it up not me.

Oh, it wasn't a gamble.  I knew damn well that placing her in one of those shitholes would do much more damage than good.  That's probably the one good thing that came out of my time at Straight.....I definitely knew what NOT to do.

[Whooter]

Well, that might explain a decision not to place her in a program (although that wasn't it...I wasn't about to subject her to the bullshit that I was), but it sure wouldn't explain my continued posting here - unlike you.  If you are John Reuben, then you have a monetary interest in staying here to defend the industry itself because you've decided to make your living off of it, even though it at the very least, it didn't help your son and at the worst contributed to his despair.  How sad for him.

I think it is probably good for him to keep busy with his business and trying to help other kids.  I am not sure what I would do in similar circumstances.  Having a child die before you do must be hard, I cant imagine going through that.

Oh, it wasn't a gamble.  I knew damn well that placing her in one of those shitholes would do much more damage than good.  That's probably the one good thing that came out of my time at Straight.....I definitely knew what NOT to do.

...and I think that is what all parents need to do is go with their experiences in life when it comes to raising their children.  No two circumstances are the same.  You swear by your decision not to send your child while others swear by their decision to send their child.  Some parents who decide not to send their child is the right decision and others turn out not to be.  The same with programs, some kids are helped by them and others are not.



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[Anne Bonney]

Well, that might explain a decision not to place her in a program (although that wasn't it...I wasn't about to subject her to the bullshit that I was), but it sure wouldn't explain my continued posting here - unlike you.  If you are John Reuben, then you have a monetary interest in staying here to defend the industry itself because you've decided to make your living off of it, even though it at the very least, it didn't help your son and at the worst contributed to his despair.  How sad for him.

I think it is probably good for him to keep busy with his business and trying to help other kids.

Help them how?  Aspen obviously didn't help Mike Reuben, yet his father insists on shilling for the very programs that not only didn't help, but more than likely contributed to his despair.  To subject a truly "troubled" child to the kinds of attack methods and LGAT psycho-babble sessions that Aspen uses is like pouring gasoline on a fire.  Hell, Aspen even stated that they provide no treatment so why send someone who honestly IS troubled into a mindfuck like LGAT attack "therapy" sessions that are specifically designed to break a kid down.....yanno, for their own good.  

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~~ C.S. Lewis

[Troll Control]

Maybe these are the "STICCy results that last a lifetime" that Reuben offers to these kiddies?

The Sexually Transmitted Infections Community Coalition (STICC) is a partnership of over thirty public and private stakeholders in the metropolitan area who have a common interest to reduce the impact of sexually transmitted infections (STIs)*, including HIV, in the community.

I guess "itchy and burning results that last a lifetime," too.

[Whooter]

Help them how?  Aspen obviously didn't help Mike Reuben, yet his father insists on shilling for the very programs that not only didn't help, but more than likely contributed to his despair.  To subject a truly "troubled" child to the kinds of attack methods and LGAT psycho-babble sessions that Aspen uses is like pouring gasoline on a fire.  Hell, Aspen even stated that they provide no treatment so why send someone who honestly IS troubled into a mindfuck like LGAT attack "therapy" sessions that are specifically designed to break a kid down.....yanno, for their own good.  

Its very clear to his father and anyone else that his time at ASR helped him very much.  He moved on to become very productive after leaving ASR.  You should read the kids Bio, Anne.  I think you sometimes rely too much on what other posters here write.



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[RobertBruce]

John, John, John, here you are yet again playing your games. No your son didn't benefit from his time locked up in ASR. Despite the fact that you refuse to recognize it, he killed himself because of you. He didn't benefit from any of it, and he's only further proof of the ineffectiveness of this industry you love so much.

That being the case it looks like we're back to where we were last week. You have 24 hours to either back up your claims regarding me, or retract them. One minute after and another email goes out. I'll get back to you on who it's going to this week.

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[RobertBruce]

John, John, John, here you are yet again playing your games. No your son didn't benefit from his time locked up in ASR. Despite the fact that you refuse to recognize it, he killed himself because of you. He didn't benefit from any of it, and he's only further proof of the ineffectiveness of this industry you love so much.

That being the case it looks like we're back to where we were last week. You have 24 hours to either back up your claims regarding me, or retract them. One minute after and another email goes out. I'll get back to you on who it's going to this week.

There are people who fly off the handle half cocked and blame programs/parents for children for killing themselves without looking at the whole picture.  

Whatever the picture is doesnt change the fact that ASR proved in effective for John's son.

[DannyB II]

John, John, John, here you are yet again playing your games. No your son didn't benefit from his time locked up in ASR. Despite the fact that you refuse to recognize it, he killed himself because of you. He didn't benefit from any of it, and he's only further proof of the ineffectiveness of this industry you love so much.

That being the case it looks like we're back to where we were last week. You have 24 hours to either back up your claims regarding me, or retract them. One minute after and another email goes out. I'll get back to you on who it's going to this week.

There are people who fly off the handle half cocked and blame programs/parents for children for killing themselves without looking at the whole picture.  

Whatever the picture is doesnt change the fact that ASR proved in effective for John's son.

Are we not supposed to do this anymore here, why are you talking about another persons son for anyway ( dead son). What ever rational you have is just plain wrong, Robert.

[RobertBruce]

The conversation already existed upon my arrival. The question was how effective was ASR for John's son. He attempted to claim that it was effective but the fact that he just a few short years later killed himself would suggest otherwise. I was simply pointing out that fact.

[DannyB II]

The conversation already existed upon my arrival. The question was how effective was ASR for John's son. He attempted to claim that it was effective but the fact that he just a few short years later killed himself would suggest otherwise. I was simply pointing out that fact.

So what, the conversation already existed. There are a lot of conversations on this site that exist, that are completely despicable, you really want to be associated with a post about a fathers dead son and you were harassing the father.
This whole topic since I have heard about it just makes me sick, I am a parent of a son. God, I would loose my mind if I lost my son never mind hear you harassing me about it.
What difference does it make what Whooter or anyone else said or did not say, you really think this is a humane topic to be harassing them about. Is nothing off limits?? Does it matter if someone did bring it up, that gives you the right to use this info anyway you want. You just have to continuously point out that a fathers son died. All in the effort to make your point.
Just think about it, don't you think this is a bit callous.

[RobertBruce]

Again, my treatment of John is no different than the treatment he swears by that happens every day to 1000's of kids who are locked up. Forcing him to be accountable for his actions is something he has to accept.

Now the topic at hand is was ASR affective for John's son. What are your thoughts?

[Watchful Yeoman]

"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."

John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem.  Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem?  Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place?  Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?

John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"?  I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."

This marketing spin makes me nauseous.  We're talking about HUMAN BEINGS here, John.  I know the conscienceless, like yourself, see children as commodities, but this is WAY out of line.  You disgust me, sir.

Of course you are nauseous.  That is because you are weak and lack foresight like most people. See the problem is you miss the bigger picture.  You think small and think problems can be solved by hugging people.  People and kids dont need hugs they need solutions, they need to know someone is in control and can make them feel safe.  Most parents jump in and try to save their child by getting involved in their lives.  But the truth is it is too late at this point to save them by this approach because they have traveled too far down the path.  The parents should have been more involved all along.  So instead of taking the road everyone else was taking another option was to start a business around the problem.  This way you not only get help for your child but you find you are able to raise money for other kids to be placed and after the smoke settles 2 things occur:

1.   It doesn’t cost a dime for treatment and
2.    You can actually reverse the flow and have a few coins end up back in your pocket to boot.

You need to always keep a level head and look for opportunity when others are panicking.  This is key and is the Hallmark of successful people.  Whenever something is going terribly bad try to think about how you can profit by it and turn it around into something good.  I have always been a firm believer that there exists a silver lining in every situation.  It is our jobs to find it and utilize it or someone else will.

As far as trying to find something scientifically proven, that is hogwash.  By the time any good set of studies are completed the treatment is outdated and people have moved on to something more "leading edge".  Hell they still cant figure out how bees fly but that doesnt prevent us from enjoying the honey.

Confession #2 for the week.  whooter now admits he never paid any money to the TTI, but did make money from it.  I knew it.

[Anne Bonney]

 Whenever something is going terribly bad try to think about how you can profit by it and turn it around into something good.

Just that right there says quite a bit.  Sorry Whooter, but if I had a child die, by whatever means, (and that's what we were talking about, whether it's you or somebody else doesn't even matter) my first thought would not be of how I could profit from it.  I don't think it would be my one millionth thought.  But, I guess that's a fundamental difference between you and I.  I wouldn't view my child's death as a business opportunity.