Author Topic: DMCA demand from CALO  (Read 4357 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2009, 07:55:19 PM »
Google Cache, get your Google Cache here! Limited time only, no refunds, step right up, devil take the hindmost!

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:_aG ... =firefox-a
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2009, 07:59:04 PM »
the treatment profiles are not there, but can be found if you do your own cache search.
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Offline psy

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2009, 08:01:14 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
There was a court "ruling" on this, then? It was not just a "lawyer letter" demanding something?

Read teh DMCA. It sucks.  It creates a legal requirement for anybody receiving one of these notices to take down copyrighted material immediately with the only recourse of having the individual poster contest it.  The Church of Scientology once used it to take down over 4000 Usenet postings, IIRC.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2009, 08:19:08 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"
There was a court "ruling" on this, then? It was not just a "lawyer letter" demanding something?

Read teh DMCA. It sucks.  It creates a legal requirement for anybody receiving one of these notices to take down copyrighted material immediately with the only recourse of having the individual poster contest it.  The Church of Scientology once used it to take down over 4000 Usenet postings, IIRC.


How corrupt! So there was no "court ruling," just someone claiming copyright, and the law is that when that claim is staked, unless there is a "contention," or whatever, it must be removed?
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Offline psy

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2009, 08:27:33 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
How corrupt! So there was no "court ruling," just someone claiming copyright, and the law is that when that claim is staked, unless there is a "contention," or whatever, it must be removed?
Yup.  And there is nothing a service provider such as Fornits can do to interfere.  The individual who made the post must contest it.
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2009, 09:30:07 PM »
Frankly, I don't mind this at all. I didn't mind the names to much, but I was bothered a great deal by the treatment plans.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2009, 10:42:49 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"
How corrupt! So there was no "court ruling," just someone claiming copyright, and the law is that when that claim is staked, unless there is a "contention," or whatever, it must be removed?
Yup.  And there is nothing a service provider such as Fornits can do to interfere.  The individual who made the post must contest it.

Or a different individual with the list of names, a valid counterclaim, a good lawyer, and a nutsack like a titan's.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2009, 11:15:39 PM »
So what, does he own the kids' names individually? Does he own them as a group? Does he reserve the sole and exclusive right to post any of the kids' names at all? Including them? Are the kids going to need to pay Ken Huey royalties to use their own names once they get out of there?

Well I'm going to post a completely random string of letters and numbers, copyright me, free for distribution. Because this is apparently all anyone owns these days. Here, watch me pound the fucking keyboard.
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==

Is that really how information law works?
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Offline psy

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2009, 11:21:04 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"
How corrupt! So there was no "court ruling," just someone claiming copyright, and the law is that when that claim is staked, unless there is a "contention," or whatever, it must be removed?
Yup.  And there is nothing a service provider such as Fornits can do to interfere.  The individual who made the post must contest it.

Or a different individual with the list of names, a valid counterclaim, a good lawyer, and a nutsack like a titan's.
Correct.  If somebody else posted the same names and was willing (unlike "Well Proxied") to fight it (potentially in court, which is what you risk with a counterclaim.. basically stating "this is kosher to post and I'm willing to defend it in court if necessary)...  Well that's something that they could fight. The question is whether it's really worth it.  Is it really worth a list of Kids names who may very well not want to be on that list.  Again, you're stepping in and making a decision for them, just like their parents did, and your saying "well...  maybe the'll get hurt but the'll thank us in the long run... it's for the greater good.. it's for their own damn good!".  What does that sound like?

You really think a list of names is harmless?  How many of you. How many, come out and say "I was in a program" publicly with your full name?  How many do it?  How many are willing to have to explain it each and every time somebody asks... to have to defend yourself constantly.  That's not something that should be forced on anybody.  What about the friends who don't know they were in a program.  What about the girlfriend who googles a new boyfriends name and finds he was in some place for "teenage fuckups".  Because 99/9% of the public at large believe that if you were in a program you must have done something to be put there.  THe idea of due process doesn't even cross their minds.  Your're charged, found guilty, adn sentenced before you even have a chance to defend yourself.  THAT is the price you pay for putting your name in public and it's not a decision that you should be making lightly over your own name, much less anhybody elses.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2009, 01:22:51 AM »
Quote from: "psy"
Because 99/9% of the public at large believe that if you were in a program you must have done something to be put there.  THe idea of due process doesn't even cross their minds.  Your're charged, found guilty, adn sentenced before you even have a chance to defend yourself.  THAT is the price you pay for putting your name in public and it's not a decision that you should be making lightly over your own name, much less anhybody elses.

Do you really believe that? If so, then aren't you all kind of wasting your time around here? What good is educating the public as a strategy, if they dismiss what you say or even believe you deserved it.

If this statement is true, then the only thing that will stop the TTI is the govt. or maybe Obama if he knew about it.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2009, 01:30:07 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "psy"
Because 99/9% of the public at large believe that if you were in a program you must have done something to be put there.  THe idea of due process doesn't even cross their minds.  Your're charged, found guilty, adn sentenced before you even have a chance to defend yourself.  THAT is the price you pay for putting your name in public and it's not a decision that you should be making lightly over your own name, much less anhybody elses.

Do you really believe that? If so, then aren't you all kind of wasting your time around here? What good is educating the public as a strategy, if they dismiss what you say or even believe you deserved it.

If this statement is true, then the only thing that will stop the TTI is the govt. or maybe Obama if he knew about it.

If all a program or a person has to do is claim copyrite of a NAME, WORD or material and it will be removed, then pretty much all of what we type is not up for removal unless we want to take it to court. So, no more submitting your WWASP , or "treatment" plans. No more statements even regarding the name of your program. Pretty ridiculous
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Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2009, 12:26:58 AM »
I was under the impression you had a nutsack Psy, correct me if I'm wrong but you know your rights, our rights to free speech and you've already been down this road. I thought you might have the same vigor, but it seems that your opinion about these names has muddled your resolve.

I'll say this, I understand your reasoning, and believe me if i were the OP I would have gone about this in a much different way, AND be willing to extract the names once confirmation came in that the kids were out, at the very least take the whole list down within a year. BUT regardless of HOW he did it I believe the OP was justified, and futhermore, the information was not attained illegally therefore a DMCA, or even a slander case would be null and void. The only way that things like the DMCA work is if people or service providers are in the habit of pussin out and giving in to legal bullying, too afraid to stand up for the rights of free speech.

What will this mean for the rest of the information we provide here on fornits? once WWASP gets wind of Ken Huey's ass rape of fornits? Will we have to take down that long list and information we have on them? will we be barred from even mentioning these schools? when does it stop?... if you give in to frivolous seize and desist orders that have no merit or case against your posters will we soon be barred from speaking out at all?...

I understand that you are more comfortable obeying this as if it were some sort of legal obligation but honestly you should have appealed that this order has no basis in this category, copyright law DOES NOT cover cases of inflammatory or "privledged" information that was obtained on a public medium and was not orginaly copyrighted, or created (granting tangible medium copyright). This information is not even copyrightable. This is an issue of consent, and it is not illegal to post the name of someone without their consent on the internet.

I really think if you were willing to defend your policies as tenaciously in this case as you do with others you would have put a bit more effort into seeing that Ken Huey didn't succeed at this.
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[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
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CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline Anonymous

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2009, 01:24:53 AM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
I was under the impression you had a nutsack Psy, correct me if I'm wrong but you know your rights, our rights to free speech and you've already been down this road. I thought you might have the same vigor, but it seems that your opinion about these names has muddled your resolve.

I'll say this, I understand your reasoning, and believe me if i were the OP I would have gone about this in a much different way, AND be willing to extract the names once confirmation came in that the kids were out, at the very least take the whole list down within a year. BUT regardless of HOW he did it I believe the OP was justified, and futhermore, the information was not attained illegally therefore a DMCA, or even a slander case would be null and void. The only way that things like the DMCA work is if people or service providers are in the habit of pussin out and giving in to legal bullying, too afraid to stand up for the rights of free speech.

What will this mean for the rest of the information we provide here on fornits? once WWASP gets wind of Ken Huey's ass rape of fornits? Will we have to take down that long list and information we have on them? will we be barred from even mentioning these schools? when does it stop?... if you give in to frivolous seize and desist orders that have no merit or case against your posters will we soon be barred from speaking out at all?...

I understand that you are more comfortable obeying this as if it were some sort of legal obligation but honestly you should have appealed that this order has no basis in this category, copyright law DOES NOT cover cases of inflammatory or "privledged" information that was obtained on a public medium and was not orginaly copyrighted, or created (granting tangible medium copyright). This information is not even copyrightable. This is an issue of consent, and it is not illegal to post the name of someone without their consent on the internet.

I really think if you were willing to defend your policies as tenaciously in this case as you do with others you would have put a bit more effort into seeing that Ken Huey didn't succeed at this.

There is NO law ruling that after receiving a DMCA notice, a website HAS to remove contested material.

That a site  LEGALLY has to have to remove ANY material after receiving this sort of letter, or ANY letter from a private person, is untruthful.

http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/ ... er-content
""if you allow your site's user to post  content you can protect yourself from copyright infringement claims under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), as you establish effective "notice-and-takedown" procedures, promptly remove content when a copyright owner notifies you it is infringing, and have no knowledge that the material  is infringing.  



"""YOU ARE NOT LEGALLY REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH THESE SAFE HARBOR PROVISIONS , but doing so may help you avoid copyright infringement liability. The sections below address those provisions of section 512 that may apply to you and discuss what you need to do in order to take advantage of the safe harbor provisions. """


This etiquette site actually states specifically that just because they receive a notice that doesn't mean they remove material.

http://www.etiquettehell.com/content/eh ... vice.shtml
" If you haven't bothered to register your works with the US Copyright Office, you have no legal case and a DMCA Notification is abusive.


In any case, we will not accept a clearly invalid or overly broad or ambiguous DMCA Notification.  The DMCA is not a tool by which to bully or censor opinions on Etiquettehell.com, and those who abuse the process open themselves up to significant legal liabilities."

IF a site removes contested material it's to avoid being sued, not because of some law making DMCA notifications the equivalent of court orders. Something doesn't become "illegal" until a court rules it is

http://www.masslawblog.com/category/dmca/
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Offline psy

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2009, 01:38:41 AM »
There are a whole bunch of IFs and BUTs there.  Read my post explaining this:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27792&p=334748#p334748
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: DMCA demand from CALO
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2009, 06:31:15 PM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
I was under the impression you had a nutsack Psy, correct me if I'm wrong but you know your rights, our rights to free speech and you've already been down this road. I thought you might have the same vigor, but it seems that your opinion about these names has muddled your resolve.

I'll say this, I understand your reasoning, and believe me if i were the OP I would have gone about this in a much different way, AND be willing to extract the names once confirmation came in that the kids were out, at the very least take the whole list down within a year. BUT regardless of HOW he did it I believe the OP was justified, and futhermore, the information was not attained illegally therefore a DMCA, or even a slander case would be null and void. The only way that things like the DMCA work is if people or service providers are in the habit of pussin out and giving in to legal bullying, too afraid to stand up for the rights of free speech.

What will this mean for the rest of the information we provide here on fornits? once WWASP gets wind of Ken Huey's ass rape of fornits? Will we have to take down that long list and information we have on them? will we be barred from even mentioning these schools? when does it stop?... if you give in to frivolous seize and desist orders that have no merit or case against your posters will we soon be barred from speaking out at all?...

I understand that you are more comfortable obeying this as if it were some sort of legal obligation but honestly you should have appealed that this order has no basis in this category, copyright law DOES NOT cover cases of inflammatory or "privledged" information that was obtained on a public medium and was not orginaly copyrighted, or created (granting tangible medium copyright). This information is not even copyrightable. This is an issue of consent, and it is not illegal to post the name of someone without their consent on the internet.

I really think if you were willing to defend your policies as tenaciously in this case as you do with others you would have put a bit more effort into seeing that Ken Huey didn't succeed at this.

Ken Huey’s letter isn’t even meet the legal requirements of a DCMA notice, as far as I see.

http://www.trinitywebservices.com/copyr ... laint.html

He doesn’t declare under penalty of perjury he in good faith believes that his copyright is being violated, and so forth.
1.   Include the following statement: "I have a good faith belief that use of the copyrighted materials described above as allegedly infringing is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law."
2.   Include the following statement: "I swear, under penalty of perjury, that the information in the notification is accurate and that I am the copyright owner or am authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed."


I believe this rescues Ken Huey from liability for a fraudulent claim. I also notice that the Dan mcgrath counter claim was rejected because it was not in proper format….
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »