Sex occurs on campus

[Deborah]

Fall Out is a load of crap. Kids would make stuff up about each other or they'd make stuff up about themselves just to get out of Fall Out. My child's counselor wouldn't let the kids leave Fall Out until they wrote something because he swore he knew they had done something wrong and just needed to admit it - how screwed up is that??? And when the kids were honest about events that occurred or their feelings, he'd put them on Restrictions (yes, even for things that weren't considered "restriction" rules). Now you tell me how that is therapeutic?

Ditto
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=91673#91673

The only thing he accomplished was making kids fear and resent telling the truth because they would be punished for being honest. The end result was the kids would lie or hide their feelings or make things up that weren't quite so bad so the punishment wouldn't be so severe and the counselor would be satisfied that he'd made breakthroughs with these kids. Pathetic? Yes. Therapeutic? Not one bit.

Ya know what's really creepy about this? The staff really think they're the catalyst for 'breakthroughs' when the majority of what they do there is for their own egos.

Retaliation? Oh yeah - Talk to the boys about getting the crap beaten out of them at night. It's well known if you "snitched" you'd were going to get an ass beating. The boys would distract the night staff and then beat up the "snitch". Most of the times this occurred in the bathrooms because it was easy to trap a kid in there while another group had the night staff distracted out in the hallway or one of the bedrooms.

Ex staff, how is this therapeutic, useful at all? What about that 24/7 surviellence that "parents can't provide but HLA can"? Seems some kids, the one's who are scared shitless, live in constant anxiety, between a rock and a hard spot. Restrictions.... or peer retaliation. Now that's some 'thurepy' right there.

[Anonymous]

You were suppose to get into trouble if it turns out you knew something that came out and you didn't write it on fall out.  That is how I did it with my groups.  I would always tell me kids that fallout was a way for them to stay out of trouble, not get in to it.

With whom? Sure didn't keep them out of trouble with their peers. How many kids were victims of retaliation?

You always take a risk when you tell on someone.  I expected the kids to tell when they knew that someone was putting themselves or someone else in danger.  You don't seem to agree with that.  That's fine.

How many kids were in imminent danger and how many were "holding hands with the opposite sex"?  

If my child were doing drugs on campus and another student knew about it, I hope they would tell on my kid.

If a staff was abusing my son, I hope another staff would tell on him/her. How often does that happen? In my experience.... Never.  Isn't it true that there is a double-standard in operation at HLA, okay for staff not to tattletale, but kids are required?
You know the #1 thing kids HATE? Double-standards. Discrepency. Staff exhibiting these will never gain the kids full trust or respect. That's a fundamental flaw in all programs.

I would hope the staff would tell on him/her also.  I personally reported a handful of instances in which I thought staff were inappropriate.  They were all investigated and several staff members were let go for a variety of reasons.  You are not going to hear details from the school because they cannot violate the privacy of the employee.

My kids were told to give me fall out if there was a danger to that person or themselves.  And if what is being posted lately on this site is true then there was a lot of sex and a lot of drug use going on.  Not just "holding hands".  I am glad that there were some students that were willing to do the more difficult thing and tell on their freinds who were making bad choices.  I think it is a sign of true friendship.  Do you have a problem with kids telling an authority figure that their friend is in a sexual relationship or is doing drugs?

[Anonymous]

Fall Out is a load of crap. Kids would make stuff up about each other or they'd make stuff up about themselves just to get out of Fall Out. My child's counselor wouldn't let the kids leave Fall Out until they wrote something because he swore he knew they had done something wrong and just needed to admit it - how screwed up is that??? And when the kids were honest about events that occurred or their feelings, he'd put them on Restrictions (yes, even for things that weren't considered "restriction" rules). Now you tell me how that is therapeutic?

Ditto
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=91673#91673

The only thing he accomplished was making kids fear and resent telling the truth because they would be punished for being honest. The end result was the kids would lie or hide their feelings or make things up that weren't quite so bad so the punishment wouldn't be so severe and the counselor would be satisfied that he'd made breakthroughs with these kids. Pathetic? Yes. Therapeutic? Not one bit.

Ya know what's really creepy about this? The staff really think they're the catalyst for 'breakthroughs' when the majority of what they do there is for their own egos.

Retaliation? Oh yeah - Talk to the boys about getting the crap beaten out of them at night. It's well known if you "snitched" you'd were going to get an ass beating. The boys would distract the night staff and then beat up the "snitch". Most of the times this occurred in the bathrooms because it was easy to trap a kid in there while another group had the night staff distracted out in the hallway or one of the bedrooms.

Ex staff, how is this therapeutic, useful at all? What about that 24/7 surviellence that "parents can't provide but HLA can"? Seems some kids, the one's who are scared shitless, live in constant anxiety, between a rock and a hard spot. Restrictions.... or peer retaliation. Now that's some 'thurepy' right there.

This is a result of Len Buccellato allowing inappropriate students into the school.  And changing him changing the staff dynamics to the point that made it nearly impossible to build relationships with the kids.  The violence has gotten progressively worse at HLA since he changed the staff/student dynamics.  Staff have no time to build real relationships with the kids any more.

[Deborah]

My kids were told to give me fall out if there was a danger to that person or themselves.  And if what is being posted lately on this site is true then there was a lot of sex and a lot of drug use going on.  Not just "holding hands".

Holding hands was off limits as well. Who decided that holding hands was a violation of the "sexual agreement"?
You're not really going to act surprised that sex/ drugs/ tobacco/ dip/ whatever, weren't engaged in or available, are you?

What were you told in your professional training about unwilling clients? Does it really make sense to think someone forced into an isolated environment and so-called therapy is going to be willing and cooperative. All the more reason to rebel, further justifying the trumped up "ODD" label they all receive.

I am glad that there were some students that were willing to do the more difficult thing and tell on their freinds who were making bad choices.  I think it is a sign of true friendship.  Do you have a problem with kids telling an authority figure that their friend is in a sexual relationship or is doing drugs?

It depends on who the authority figure is and how it's going to be handled. There are plenty authority figures that I would discourage a kid from telling.

[Anonymous]

Do you have a problem with kids telling an authority figure that their friend is in a sexual relationship or is doing drugs?

damn i just came to realize we have some genuinely conservative confomative backwards-thinking nieve people on this site. then again this country is full of this scum. i dont understand, why must your children suffer locked up in an institution? why must your child be punished for your own mistakes and bigotry? did it ever come to you that maybe SEX AND DRUGS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM! you are the problem. they are an intrinsic part of humanity as a whole, and their opression only brings about grief. a kid who is doing drugs is not a bad kid, they are just curious. but, it is up to you as a parent to know where to draw the line, and understand the difference between various patterns and habits.

some HLAesque examples you might be able to relate to:
 a kid who smokes weed every day but gets good grades. He doesnt get along with his parents, but has stable freindships. He doesnt get into trouble, although his freinds seem shady. his parents are worried.

this kid is a pothead. yet, is that a bad thing? although he partakes in questionably legal activity, he is still fullfilling his responsibilities. maybe he doesnt get along with his parents becouse they dont approve of their lifestyle. so, there starts "the war that never was". maybe a simple blind eye here or there by the parents will IMPROVE the relationship, and keep him from making stupid desicions.

a kid smokes weed every day, sits around, does nothing, skips school, etc. also does hard drugs like cocaine, heroin, or methamphetamine.

 this is where you must draw the line. it is at THIS point that kids need help.

a girl is 15 years old and is dating a 17 year old. they have sex regularly. the parents of the girl dont approve of the relationship, regardless of reasoning, even though they seem to be in love.

the parents need to grow up. and maybe change their church or something.

a girl is 14 and sleeps around. she dates guys up to a decade older. she gets drunk alot, and lets anyone take advantage of her.

when this happens 90% of the time it's becouse the parents are in a dysfunctional relationship themselves. the other 10% is becouse the girl is hitting puberty and her raging horomones are making her too horny to control. hey, some people are meant to be pornstars!


bigots, take a fucking look at yourselves and grow a backbone. and some self honesty would help, since i cant give you people the harder truth. i can only estimate.

[PostGradParent]

Do you have a problem with kids telling an authority figure that their friend is in a sexual relationship or is doing drugs?

damn i just came to realize we have some genuinely conservative confomative backwards-thinking nieve people on this site. then again this country is full of this scum. i dont understand, why must your children suffer locked up in an institution? why must your child be punished for your own mistakes and bigotry? did it ever come to you that maybe SEX AND DRUGS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM! you are the problem. they are an intrinsic part of humanity as a whole, and their opression only brings about grief. a kid who is doing drugs is not a bad kid, they are just curious. but, it is up to you as a parent to know where to draw the line, and understand the difference between various patterns and habits.

some HLAesque examples you might be able to relate to:
 a kid who smokes weed every day but gets good grades. He doesnt get along with his parents, but has stable freindships. He doesnt get into trouble, although his freinds seem shady. his parents are worried.

this kid is a pothead. yet, is that a bad thing? although he partakes in questionably legal activity, he is still fullfilling his responsibilities. maybe he doesnt get along with his parents becouse they dont approve of their lifestyle. so, there starts "the war that never was". maybe a simple blind eye here or there by the parents will IMPROVE the relationship, and keep him from making stupid desicions.

a kid smokes weed every day, sits around, does nothing, skips school, etc. also does hard drugs like cocaine, heroin, or methamphetamine.

 this is where you must draw the line. it is at THIS point that kids need help.

a girl is 15 years old and is dating a 17 year old. they have sex regularly. the parents of the girl dont approve of the relationship, regardless of reasoning, even though they seem to be in love.

the parents need to grow up. and maybe change their church or something.

a girl is 14 and sleeps around. she dates guys up to a decade older. she gets drunk alot, and lets anyone take advantage of her.

when this happens 90% of the time it's becouse the parents are in a dysfunctional relationship themselves. the other 10% is becouse the girl is hitting puberty and her raging horomones are making her too horny to control. hey, some people are meant to be pornstars!


bigots, take a fucking look at yourselves and grow a backbone. and some self honesty would help, since i cant give you people the harder truth. i can only estimate.

Your inappropriate foul language and name calling turn me off.  I think you're full of yourself.

[Troll Control]

Tell him again!  Maybe the FOURTH time will be a charm.

Seriously, lady, you need to be able to sort through the rhetoric and see the points for what they're worth.  It is this type of blanket dismissal of this kid based on how he expresses himself that shows where parents need to improve.  90% of what this kid says is accurate, yet you dismiss it because of your being uptight about language.

It's not okay to lock up an otherwise normal kid in an institution just because he says "fuck you" to you a lot.  Yet this is exactly the profile of most of HLA's institutionalized population and it's due to parents' getting their panties in a bunch over relatively minor things...

[Anonymous]

Guest wrote:

some HLAesque examples you might be able to relate to:
a kid who smokes weed every day but gets good grades. He doesnt get along with his parents, but has stable freindships. He doesnt get into trouble, although his freinds seem shady. his parents are worried.

this kid is a pothead. yet, is that a bad thing? although he partakes in questionably legal activity, he is still fullfilling his responsibilities. maybe he doesnt get along with his parents becouse they dont approve of their lifestyle. so, there starts "the war that never was". maybe a simple blind eye here or there by the parents will IMPROVE the relationship, and keep him from making stupid desicions.

a kid smokes weed every day, sits around, does nothing, skips school, etc. also does hard drugs like cocaine, heroin, or methamphetamine.

this is where you must draw the line. it is at THIS point that kids need help.

Okay -- let's take that second kid.  What do parents do?  The kid needs help, as you say.  Assume further that some unsuccessful attempt has been made to provide help at home.  Are parents to wait until the kid further harms him or herself and requires a locked facility, is targeted as a truant, and/or is picked up by the juvenile officials for drug use, drug sale, or criminal activity to support drug purchase?  

The assumption that parents send their kids to a therapeutic boarding school to get rid of them and their rudeness doesn't seem to apply here.  Perhaps there are indeed parents who will spend huge sums of money to get peace and quiet at home.  For most parents, however, that's  money that needs to be borrowed or diverted from other things that they would much rather do.  I just have to believe that people are going to be pretty desperate for help before they take this kind of step.  And Guest, at least, agreed that the second kid mentioned really does need help -- it's not just a situation of someone involved in recreational drug use who is otherwise functioning well.

Without offering any defense of HLA, which has its flaws, I'd like to know what those who condemn parents for taking these steps would suggest?

[Troll Control]

This topic has been parsed again and again here.  Obviously, local solutions are available.  If the kid requires institutionalization, then s/he must meet the following criteria:

1.  Is an imminent danger to self (will kill self).
2.  Is an imminent danger to others (will kill others).
3.  Is unable mentally to function in any other environment.

It's really that simple.

There's a thread in the Troubled Teen Industry forum called "What quality care looks like".  I suggest you read that.

Institutionalization of your kid is not a solution.

[Anonymous]

Quote:
I am glad that there were some students that were willing to do the more difficult thing and tell on their freinds who were making bad choices. I think it is a sign of true friendship. Do you have a problem with kids telling an authority figure that their friend is in a sexual relationship or is doing drugs?


My child was forced to do the Fall-out book.  My child did as told.  For
that, my child was threatened by two other violent children. My child lived in fear.  Yet when something was reported such as suicidal thoughts or my child stayed up night after night counseling other children to prevent them from sliting their wrists, it was upon deaf ears.  A chronic Bulemic child was also counseled by my child and my childs' concerns were ignored.  Those instances should be reported.  However, their is a code of ethics that hopefully most children were brought up with.  THerefore, if one is in fear for someone's well being, then seek help. Otherwise,
work on oneself before casting stones or judgement. What HLA has done,
is to create retaliation and break any bond that the children may have with each other...including honour.

[RobertBruce]

In my time retaliation wasnt as huge a concern, unless you made it a point to tell on the person in a very open setting. In which case you deserved what you got.

The bigger threat came from counselors who had heard something about an inmate and then held marathon fall out sessions waiting to see who would acknowledge the truth. Essentially you could be kept in the session until someone gave them the specific information they were looking for. One memorable fall out session I had lasted from 730 at night until 3 in the morning. Very theraputic I think.

[Anonymous]

yeah..the so called "special reals". they'd just pull you out of class the last peroid, and keep you there untill they figure out whats goin on.

[FLCLcowdude]

Special reels sucked big hairy nuts...

[Anonymous]

In my time retaliation wasnt as huge a concern, unless you made it a point to tell on the person in a very open setting. In which case you deserved what you got.

The bigger threat came from counselors who had heard something about an inmate and then held marathon fall out sessions waiting to see who would acknowledge the truth. Essentially you could be kept in the session until someone gave them the specific information they were looking for. One memorable fall out session I had lasted from 730 at night until 3 in the morning. Very theraputic I think.

I agree RB.  This goes back to what I stated earlier in regards to Len letting in inappropriate kids.  In your time, most of the kids were pretty appropriate placements.  Not all by any means, but much more so than years later.  As the years went by he started letting in many kids, and families, that should never have been there.  That is when you started seeing more violence on campus.  This also happened when he changed the duties of the staff to make it more difficult to build relationships with the kids.

[Anonymous]

I agree RB.  This goes back to what I stated earlier in regards to Len letting in inappropriate kids.  In your time, most of the kids were pretty appropriate placements.  Not all by any means, but much more so than years later.  As the years went by he started letting in many kids, and families, that should never have been there.  That is when you started seeing more violence on campus.  This also happened when he changed the duties of the staff to make it more difficult to build relationships with the kids.

Yes, so right! when i got there (02') i would say %75 of the kids should have been there, and the rest were victims of over-conservative parents, or rich lazy and gullible parents, and there were maybe a few that were too dangerous to be there, or needed other, more intensive help.

the day i realized HLA is goin to shit is the day Matt Tennenbaum came.  He was Retarted, or something, but he would walk around saying nayaaaa all the time, and there were at least a dozen incidents of him goin to the bathroom in his pants.

and then a week later a kid came that had to be restrained by 6 staff memebers and a cop his first day, cuz he tried to stab someone with a plastic knife.