Note to John Underwood

[Anonymous]

You rave against the Seed with the same zeal that your mother must of had we she forced all the Seed (Straight) dogma down your throat.
I guess the mustard seed did not fall far from the tree or bush.

Hey Anon,
Any type of fundamentalist especially those of a religious nature have done nothing more than to promote ignorance, intolerance and in my opinion are responsible for much of the evil that prevails in today?s world.

One of the problems I used to have with the Seed was I did not wish to look at the world in such black and white terms. Not all my old friends were evil and not all of them plotted for my eventual down fall so that they could justify their misguided lives. Not everything that Art or Staff said was infallible or perfect. Art was not a god.

On the same hand I do not think my time at the Seed was filled with underhanded manipulations or that the Seed was part of this great government conspiracy to control the minds of America?s youth to create some kind of secret society that can be easily controlled and molded or that I was completely used by ambitious self serving social climbing status and wealth seekers that had nothing but their well-being in mind.

Here are some facts about the Seed: 1- The Government money dried up in the early to mid 70?s when strings came attached with the Government funding. The reason for this was Art refused to take any money from the government because he refused to relinquish any type of control over the Seed. He felt this was his brain child and no one would take that away from him. There would be no government psychiatrist neither from the State or Federal agency allowed into the Seed. Every once in a while Art would go into the group and talk about this.
 
 Art hated the republicans party primarily because around 1972 or 73 the Seed was audited by the feds. He always blamed this for a comment he had made and support he had given to Sen., Edwin Mouskie during a failed run for the White House. Art held the plumbers from the Nixon White house personally responsible for a smear campaign against the Seed and himself. There was nothing that Art resented more than government interference with the Seed his anger many times was pointed against the republican conservatives . I never once saw him break allegiance with the Democratic Party.
Could all of this been a gross exaggeration of events in order to feed into his monster ego and over emphasis the importance of the Seed program.
 From the lets say the mid 70?s on the Seed survive on donations from Seed families private institutions and Seed kids. This money was more than enough during the mid 70?s when there were 1000 kids on the program but the money soon started drying up as the amount of new comers dwindled. In the early 80?s in a good year he Seed might have taken 10 new comers a year and the core group of long timers or old comers shrank to about 80 people. That group shrank more and more with each passing year.
 
The Seed stopped taking minors in or around 1986 because of all the accusations that were going on at the time about all the child molestations in the day care centers around that time. The State past a law that required all people working with minors such as day cares or rehabs etc. had to submit criminal back ground checks. Art refused to give the State that luxury not to mention that many of the old comers did have criminal records. The State also required certain bureaucratic procedures along with this law and Art decided that all new comers had to be at least 18 years old. Keep in mind that as the core group grew older so did most of the new comers. The face of the Seed had changed it was no longer a program catering to minors but to people in their 20?s to 60?s some even older.

 All these things that I have stated are based on my personal observations and conversations and talks with Art and other Seed graduates during my years at the Seed.  
 
I really have no reason to lie or defend or accuse. I post and read on this sight basically to help myself and to clear some of my unresolved issues with the Seed with people that experienced the same place I did.

[Antigen]

On 2005-08-09 16:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

Could all of this been a gross exaggeration of events in order to feed into his monster ego and over emphasis the importance of the Seed program.

Got a simpler explanation? I don't. Occam's razor says...... YES!

Faith is believing something you know ain't true.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

[GregFL]

thanks for the info!

Who were you directing the initial biting remark to?  If it is me I would respectfully like to point out it is in fact  "BUSH".

 :grin:



------------------------
quote:On the same hand I do not think my time at the Seed was filled with underhanded manipulations or that the Seed was part of this great government conspiracy to control the minds of America?s youth to create some kind of secret society that can be easily controlled and molded or that I was completely used by ambitious self serving social climbing status and wealth seekers that had nothing but their well-being in mind.

-------------------------

No one has said that. In fact,most posts here readily admit the seed was good intentions gone bad. I believe that, coupled with an egomaniac cult leader thats impression of his own self importance was truly outlandish. Tie that all in with dangerous cultic mind control methods that most people didn't even understand..including the staff. Apparently many of them still don't understand the fire they were playing with..only that it "changed" the kids rapidly.

  You should know however that the federal government had indeed done studies at the synanon and funded many synanon type rehabs thruout the nation...yes including the Seed and later Straight, Inc.


--------------------------
quote: The Government money dried up in the early to mid 70?s when strings came attached with the Government funding. The reason for this was Art refused to take any money from the government because he refused to relinquish any type of control over the Seed. He felt this was his brain child and no one would take that away from him. There would be no government psychiatrist neither from the State or Federal agency allowed into the Seed. Every once in a while Art would go into the group and talk about this.
-----------------------------

there is more to the story than that. The congress issued a report indicting The Seed specifically for using Korean style brainwashing techniques and recommended that consent forms be signed by all enrollees that they were subjecting themselves to experimental treatment..ie.  Art hit the roof because he knew this would be the end of the endless stream of profitable kids coming in...who in their right mind would sign that form?  Think about it. Art as usual put his own spin on it and claimed it was for the good of the seed.


I appreciate that you don't feel a need to defend or accuse. Some people may have deeper issues they are trying to resolve. Were you here when Big Frank used to post? Well, unfortunately he never was able to resolve all his issues before he died.

Lets join together and wish everyone who posts here resolve and happiness.  We are a community, even if once in a while things get a little snippy...

[GregFL]

On 2005-08-09 17:17:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"In no way do I intend to trivilize the Seed experience for the victims of the program. However, to me the entire program sounds so surreal that it's beyond belief. Sort of like one of those horrible 70's sci fi flicks with wires attached to the space ships, and the rubber monsters flopping around the stage.


"

that would be pretty funny...if it was original.  How bout this comment from my school newpaper in 1973....

"all I know about the Seed is that when teenagers go there and come back they are just like Robots from outer space"


http://fornits.com/anonanon/images/seed.jpg

[Antigen]

Welcome to SDF, Three Springs Waygookin. Interesting stuff, isn't it? Yes, it was a surreal trip!

What differences/similarities do you see between The Seed and the programs where you staffed?

A multitude of laws in a country is like a great number of physicians, a sign of weakness and malady.


--Voltaire, philosopher (1694-1778)

[Napolean Bonafart]

Ii suppose you don't know what that is. It worked for me yet it sems o make certain humans fictitous forever. No this is not you thought reforn tans like government secret societies. As a matter of fact their main goal is cure sane men and women. It's the American KGB and they are everywhere. No groups like before. It's called high level security psychiatric prisons and restraints and injections of drugs you don't even know what they do. These are the social reforms demanded by Gorbachav. Fortunately, I've escaped them, but there is a man on a war-horse here that has been fighting me my whole life so you want some salad. Be my guest. Most of you aren't even men and women. So stop your bitching at me. It's YOU that lost control of your government.Hhow's about a little rubber room with a little mat to sleep on forever in a seclusion room forever.......until they have to finish"digging out the dead". That's what you drug abusers are up against. no me. You are, I agree you know it's the governmental mafia that hooked you and destroyed your brain, and now they want to make you obsolite. Blood transfusions from some hispanic man saved my life. I've lived inside that man's memories for a long time. Also, a black-holed sun turned me into a colored person. Nnow the hood is full of latinos and also, they smile at me. I don't know why but I'm grateful to be black-skinned, hispanic blooded(two pints)> and a hebrew Christian and do you know they are there just waiting for you to just try to escape. I've met freemasons in hospitals also. They don't let them out either. Wwith Liberty and justice for all. Don't wory modern Psychiatry for some of you less dangerous people have secret never seen movies prescribed by doctors to watch. I's all a big fun-house. The got the Puck goat in the basin chopping veggies ino his bed before they make you dinner and guess whose for dinner if you aren't too carefull in our room lockjedup? YOU thaqt's wh. They do have air ducts that these vampires seem to be able to get through even without the staff knowing it. Yyou won't be able to sleep. Brain salad surgery has come a long way. Why it's just pushing buttons and pulling trings. There is no such thing as a mentally ill erson unless they are just plain stupid. and humans just seem o be like little artificial intelligence beings created by Satan. You want a Republic still?...........Oh here's more. It's called involuntary commitment. They've got a psychiatric prison for the criminally isane near me. You just might wind up here if you don't stop abusing dope. I's yourgovernment mafia that hooked you in the first place. Now it's their job to finish you off or let you slip into fiction until your dying day. Oh yeah watchthe TV/radio. Laugh it up. They know who you are. Nothing but setting their ducks up and knocking them down. And your constitution? It's outdated. You know just made for white supremeist and slave owners. These black militants are angry, the Russians are angry, yet ou all thinkyour lives are some kind of game or a joke. Isn't that correct? It's because you that control this board are just mere actors and anti-Crists. The Seed...........maybe a cult as I've learned, but psychiatry kills.  

Peace and abstinence from European interferences are our objects, and so will continue while the present order of things in America remain uninterrupted.
--Thomas Jefferson

[GregFL]

Where the hell our those mustard greens like I asked you? Im hungry as hell!




 :grin:

[Anonymous]

Could you delete Antigen's coment about Art Barker Fucker you stole my inheritance, or is this factual? Or maybe pure bullshit.


 ::bangin::

[GregFL]

On 2005-08-10 05:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

Could you delete Antigen's coment about Art Barker Fucker you stole my inheritance, or is this factual? Or maybe pure bullshit.





 ::bangin::



"

I don't do "delete post requests". Sorry. This isn't a karoake bar.

 ::cheers::

I consider you all my friends and hope that is reciprocated.

[Anonymous]

Have you ever deleted Antigen's or your own posts for the same reason what you've deleted mine for?

Some how I believe you guys might be abusing your own "power" the same way you say the Seed did. Maybe Antigen wears the so called "pants" here and your not able to "do the  "right thing" due to her position here.  :roll:

[Anonymous]

:grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin: sorry for all the smiley faces I'm just feeling kinda "groovy" right now my own self.

[Ft. Lauderdale]

"William" is often credited with making a statement to the effect of, ``if two theories explain the facts equally well then the simpler theory is to be preferred'', but see below. This principle is widely known as "Occam's Razor."

Antigen referred to "Occam's Razor" in an eariler post.  

I just wanted any other "dummy's like myself to understand. :grin:

[Stripe]

Antigen WROTE:
So, in summary, you're right about the logo. It's not a terribly important detail. Lots of organizations use symbolic logos and imagry. But you must admit that it is very apropos that this particular organization's chosen logo is based on a myth.

Antigen, I could not agree more.  That was me  who wrote about the bird/bus bird/tree.  But you guys are right - who cares.  The fact is, the seed was based on a myth.  I doubt they meant to do that, just another case of good intentions gone bad...[ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-08-10 08:58 ]

And you are right Greg, that's exactly where my google word search led me - that Christian Answers site.  Like everything else in the world, its just an idea.  [ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-08-10 09:00 ][ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-08-10 09:10 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2005-08-10 06:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Have you ever deleted Antigen's or your own posts for the same reason what you've deleted mine for?



Some how I believe you guys might be abusing your own "power" the same way you say the Seed did. Maybe Antigen wears the so called "pants" here and your not able to "do the  "right thing" due to her position here.  :roll: "

What exactly is your beef?  You know your post was over the top. Care to rephrase it and add some pertinent content? Go right ahead, but a two sentence post questioning someone's sexuality and alluding to their crotch won't stand here. Sorry, that is my rule.  I, not Ginger, control content in this forum. Ginger is  the one that graciously donates the bandwith. If Ginger was calling the shots here that post would have stood. I have seen people insult her far worse in unmoderated forums that she controls with nary a hickup from her.

That I control content here is why The SDF discussion forum is the ONLY moderated forum on fornits.  All other forums follow a different format. I did this intentionally so people with contrary opinions would not be shouted out, like has been done in other forums. It is not perfect but the intended result has come to frution.

If Ginger posted something similar to what you did, I would take her to task for it. Believe that.  However, I have known her long enough to realize that is highly unlikely.

Any more questions might I suggest a private message and a one on one conversation?


GregFL

[GregFL]

On 2005-08-10 06:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

" :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin: sorry for all the smiley faces I'm just feeling kinda groovy right now my own self."

Where did you meet "Kinda Groovy"?

 :grin:  :grin:  :grin: