Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

I don't think every individual in AA/NA is my enemy, but the organization as a whole really bothers me, as does the attitude of many in AA/NA I've encountered both in and out of meetings.  A lot of these people put the cult first and foremost, and if they are in a position to make trouble for you (probation officer, neighborhood busybody, employer/supervisor), will do so, unless you are willing to make the cult first and foremost in your life also.  

Also, the idea of anonymity in these programs is a joke.  The stepsters know the potential of their power, and WILL use it to coerce/blackmail.  Of course, this is "an individual who isn't working a good program" who would do something like that, not the Cult at large. Yeah. Uh-huh. Right.

_________________
Your sponsor says it's OK for you to drink

[ This Message was edited by: RTP2003 on 2004-02-24 13:51 ]

On 2004-02-24 12:36:00, Peter Moore wrote:


Actually it's the treatment centers who have taken the 12-step philosophy, not the 12-step organizations who have created the centers.  There has never been a treatment center endorsed by AA.

 
**Most of the taxpayer-funded and HMO-approved treatment centers are founded by and staffed by Stepcultists.  It is not erroneous to view them as indoctrination centers.  12 Step meetings were required at the detox facilities I am familiar with.  AA/NA don't endorse particular treatment centers per se, but that is a convenient legal fiction to enable them to swallow tax dollars and insurance money while recruiting new cultists.  If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....**

Where does it state in any CONFERENCE-APPROVED program literature that they are the "only" way?  

 
**Now this is a good example of NA loopholes and doublespeak.  Every meeting I ever attended had the words "only through this Program" said aloud at some point.  Another answer Steppies give when confronted about their claim to a monopoly on recovery is to say that people who break addictions without AA/NA weren't 'real' addicts.**

>>
Actually there hasn't been enough of a movement from members of other sobriety organizations to do it another way.  .


**I think you are absolutely right

Individuals certainly harm others.  But the programs philosophy doesn't harm them.


**Many of the Stepcult's concepts debase freewill and human dignity in and of themselves.  The program's nature, structure, and growth inherently lends itself to abuse and corruption by unscrupulous individuals, in addition to the many other flaws in it.





_"Stay out, 12-Stepper, your lies are not welcome here"________________


Your sponsor says it's OK for you to drink



That's silly.

 This is a mature debate.

**No, it's not silly .  You cultists have done enough harm, you road-to-hell-paving good intentionists.  Ask anyone who's been court-ordered to your Indoctrination Centers and  Groupthink Sessions.  Ask people who have lost family, friends, and freedom due to both your cult and it's members.  

Congrats!

I've got more than a few problems with this cult that has endeared itself to so many people.  Cayohuesa has elaborated on a few of the major ones, but I want to bring up a couple more:  The fallacy that a person must "hit bottom" and the almost complete monopoly on treatment options that these cults enjoy.  Like I said in another post, the book "12 Spells and 12 Superstitions" teaches the potential oldcomer, I mean sponsor, to encourage anyone who is having a hard time swallowing Stepcraft to continue drinking/drugging until they "hit bottom" and see the glorious light of the almighty Program.  I believe this has caused much needless suffering.  When you combine those kind of instructions with Stepcraft's insistence that they are the "only" way, and add a person's ignorance of other treatment possibilities (an ignorance reinforced by the Stepcult's infiltration of and virtual monopoly on the treatment industry), you have a recipe for suffering or death, in which case the deceased will serve as a grim reminder of what happens to those who don't "do it the NA way".  You see, when people are at the point where they are seeking help for addiction, they are generally in a confused and vulnerable state.  Mistakenly believing groupsters to be "experts" on "recovery", these people, upon realizing the bullshit nature of  Stepcraft, may still believe some of the other lies the Stepcult has to offer, and believe that their demise is inevitable because they can't or won't follow what they have been led to believe is the "only" alternative to "jails, institutions and death".  The Stepcult is rigged with nifty little self-fulfilling prophecies and inherent contradictions--it cares only for it's own growth and nothing for it's individual members.  It often harms those it claims to be designed to help.  

_"Stay out, 12-Stepper, your lies are not welcome here"________________
Your sponsor says it's OK for you to drink

[ This Message was edited by: RTP2003 on 2004-02-24 12:16 ]

That little twit?  He was a classic case of 'lil man syndrome'.  Once he got a little power it went right to his head.  Reserve me a space for the confrontation.  I heard he got divorced from that sow he married, Alice.  Both of those creeps disgust me.  Is William doing gay porn these days?

Hi

If anyone wishes to email me personally, I will be glad to share
with them the reasons I believe NA/AA/12 Step groups to be harmful
not only to individuals, but to society as a whole.

For a pretty thorough look at this topic, you can also go to
http://www.recovery.org .

These cult groups are NOT an effective means of treating addiction.
By their own admission, 95% of participants drop out within the
first year, 50% within the first month (1989 AA Triennial Report).

In the Stepcraft brainwashing manual "12 Steps and 12 Traditions", a
guide for would-be "sponsors", they even tell stepcraft practioners
to encourage drinking/drug use by potential cultists that have not
embraced the fallacious concept of "powerlessness" in hopes that the
person will "hit bottom" and eventually come into the fold. This is
a sick, twisted, and irresponsible tactic that has resulted in the
death of many people.  When this occurs, the cultists use the
deceased as an example of what will inevitably occur to those that
don't "do it the NA way".  They truly do society, and addicts in
particular, a grave disservice by spreading disinformation on the
nature of addiction and other forms of treatment, the success of
which they routinely deny or disqualify by saying "those people
weren't real addicts".

NA/AA/other forms of stepcraft have all of the earmarks of cults--
Religious orientation; irrationality; rigidity; dogmatism; anti-
intellectualism; a charismatic leader (Bill W[ilson]); a
heirarchical authoritarian structure; submission of the individual
will to "the will of God"; a claim to the ultimate truth; separitism
(us vs. the world mentality); exclusivity (only through us...);self-
absorption (primary focus is on the cult itself); economic
exploitation; going to great lengths to retain members; mind  
control techniques; intimidation; manipulation through guilt;
threats of death (Big Book predicts it for dropouts and
nonbelievers); harrassment; deceptive recruiting techniques; closed,
all-encompassing environments (treatment centers where people are
deprived of all non-cult reading material, contact with family or
friends, or telephone access), etc.

The fact that NA/AA has so well infiltrated and subverted legitimate
recovery techniques and methods in the USA( often using the judicial
system to forcibly recruit new members, a flagrant violation of the
US Constitution which has been successfully challenged every time it
has gone to court, thankfully) and other nations has undoubtedly
resulted in the continued suffering and deaths of many unfortunate
addicts who may well have successfully treated their addictions had
other treatment options been known to, or made available to them.

NA/AA/12 Step IS a CULT with no concern for individual addicts, only
for it's own continuation and cancer-like growth.  It has portrayed
itself as a benevolent organization that seeks to help addicts, when
in reality it has caused untold suffering to the very groups it
purports to be serving.

Thank you

RTP2003

How the hell did Miller's DNA get all over Mel's penis pump?