Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - psy

Pages: 1 ... 362 363 [364] 365 366 ... 368
5446
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: The parents could go too
« on: November 07, 2006, 03:19:37 AM »
Quote from: ""Covergaard""
Family Brat camp from twentytwenty production has just finished a series, where the parents went along with their child.

There really cannot be an accurate TV documentary on programs unless the cameras are hidden.  What 20/20 showed was what we deal with on  fornits.

Quote

It worked good for two of the four.

It might have worked for three out of the four, but the mom could not face reality and discomfort in the desert, so she took the family out even when her boy seemed to improved.

Wow.  The cameras are there, the staff are on their best behaviour, and the spoiled mommy decides it's too much for her.  JEE SUS.  Somebody pack the bitch off to TB.

Quote
She just would not solve the problem.

I can understand why some parents outsource the whole thing to a strange company. It is hard to work with one self and those issues we all have. Yes, we have them all because we are human beings.

We can also change them if we face the fact that there could be a problem.

So my input is: Tell them that you as a parent would send the entire family out starving in the desert if they don't behaive. Just put the housekey in a envelope in front of them to tell them that an escort firm could come at some point and escort the entire family away in handcuffs.

How do you think you relationship with your parents would have been, if they had lied next to you in OP, a stone circle or in a dog cage? Would they by their own torment show you that they cared for you?


Well.  My parents were ignorant.  Otherwise they would be going to a nursing home a-la Abu Ghraibe.

Do I think it would have changed thier opinion if they had experienced what I had?  You have no idea how many times i have wished for just that -- not to hurt them, but to make them understand my pain and why i can't "just get over it".

Torment never shows care.  I have never understood "tough love". Such bullshit. You treat people like dirt and it is somehow "magically" supposed to make them better people.  FUCK NO.  It teaches you how to isolate, how to shut off, how to harden your heart to the suffering of others while you protect yourself from the constant bombardment of your psyche with endless mind games.  Eventually they break you and convince you that who you are is a lie, and they will sell you the truth.  That moment, you die inside, and then your former self starts to rot as you forget who you were.  Eventually, if you don't snap out of it, you end up dishing out the "emotional growth" as a parent, ed-con, or program staff.

It's the same thinking behind the person who says "my father beats me and i'm a stronger person for it, he cared about me".  And what do you think that person does to his child.

Where is the logic here.
The common fucking sense.
Hate begets what?  HATE!!!

5447
The Troubled Teen Industry / add me too
« on: November 06, 2006, 10:45:12 PM »
Quote from: ""BSarro""
Parents have enough problems without idiotic fools like Deborah and Milk Gargling Death Penalty intruding in thier and their children's lives.



You can add me to that list of idiotic fools too.  Better a fool than an ed-con.  Go back to hell Lon.  Hey that rhymes.  Maybe i should make a song.

5448
The Troubled Teen Industry / Mercy ministries
« on: November 06, 2006, 09:56:05 PM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
The faq section is the same word for word on the Australian site. Given that it is the girl herself who fills out the forms, I dont think the fact that they are so overly christian is really a problem because it seems that the girls volunteer to go there so hardly go in blind. Their attitude to the young women also seems genuinely loving as opposed to all the programmes which seem pretty hostile to the kids they are supposed to serve.

Exactly.  I don't see "tough love" mentioned on their site.  Most places like this just "pray" your problems away with surprisingly good results (eg. Cenacolo communes).  A cynical person such as myself would just say that they substitute drug addiction for god addiction (one opiate for another), but that is their right to do so. This is not to say one has to be a god-addict to worship god, just that there are some people who turn it into a day-job to avoid the problems in their lives.  Overall, however, thse people are happy and can leave if they want to so i don't see a real issue.

Regarding the friends issue, yes i do think it is restrictive, however at least they let the people see their friends.  In my case they told my i could write my girlfriend (or call her) any time i wanted.  They didn't.  She was heartbroken and though I had forgotten about her.  They never even let me write to her and tell her i was not going to be able to write.

I could understand them saying no if some smack-addicts wanted to visit.  If the people in program want to see their friends bad enough they can leave (although they do mention signing a 6 month commitment(not sure if legally binding) on the site you mentioned).

Quote
What I wondered about was being able to see only approved friends, as that is not consistent with other similar programmes here. I was also curious about weekend passes as it does not mention whther everyone gets the exeat wekend or if it has to be earned. Hence wondering if anyone had direct experiences with these people.


One last thing.  Claims on a website are often very different than reality.  If you fit the age range (or look it) you might be able to infiltrate the place and find out for yourself what the place is like.  Don't worry, if they lock you in the cellar we'll "Rambo the fucking door down" and break you out.

5449
The Troubled Teen Industry / My opinion
« on: November 06, 2006, 09:26:47 PM »
Well thier a residential program but they are also non-profit and off their services free of charge.  Hopefully this means they aren't money grubbing thugs.

The overall impression i get is that this is one of those few examples of actually devout Christians who just want to help people.  The people in most RTS places just pretend to be religious/christian to allay the fears of parents.

These people seem to be sincere.  I would assume most graduates end up being members of the God-squad when they come out; however take a look at this from their FAQ:

Quote
Mercy Ministries in an independent organization that is not affiliated with any single church, organization or denomination.
(although they do claim to be christian)

That being said, this concerns me (again from the faq):

Quote
Residents work through a counseling process which includes topics such as forgiveness, resolving past hurts, family issues and thought patterns (ungodly and Godly beliefs).

Hmm.  I don't feel comfortable with people labeling thoughts as godly/ungodly, however this is not uncommon with the god-squad.  I think organized religion is for idiots personally but people are free to be idiots if they want.  This place seems to be completely voluntary and does not accept court-ordered people.

What remains to be seen (and you might want to ask them this) is whether or not they let people leave with their money and posessions.  Where I went this was not the case (and you would be on the streets, with no money, no identification, no clothes, and no posessions, in a really high crime area).

Quote
#  Can girls take a leave of absence to see family/friends? Approximately every 4 to 6 weeks weekend passes are allowed. During this time, you can see approved family and friends.
# What is the policy on mail? Mail can be sent and received every day.
# What is the policy on phone calls? Phone calls can be made and received on the weekends.


This concerns me a bit as well.  If they only have phone calls on weekends it means they don't have regular access to phones.  I also am concerned with them "approving" family members, however the "approval" may only refer to friends, which i could understand if the person has drug issues.

If you really want to know you could apply for an application (30+ pages).

Overall, however, this place seems to be like a place where christians go when they go "away from god" and want to get back in his graces.  I doubt they are really targeting non-christians with their "ministry".

5450
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: To tell kids or not?
« on: November 06, 2006, 02:04:10 AM »
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penal""
Okay, this one's busting me inside.

I'm a mod of a forum I most certainly will not name on Fornits (and I most certainly don't use the name Milk Gargling Death Penalty there!), one where the primary subject is of interest to teenagers and pre-teens. Kids post there, kids I don't know the backgrounds of.

One part of me is saying "Jesus fuck, what if one of them really IS in danger of being sent away and I DIDN'T warn him?" and the other is saying "Cripes, asshole, if they really were they probably wouldn't be posting there, they're just kids and this shit will give them nightmares. Don't post it, they shouldn't even have to think about this!"

Which attitude is correct?



I say tell them.  Even if they not at risk of being sent to program they might know somebody who is, or has been sent.  You never know where the information could go and where if could help.  Kids aren't as easy to scare as they used to be.  I wouldn't worry much about that.

5451
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
He's right. I saw both Matrix movies, but I didn't get it.


Ummmm.  There were three matrix movies.  The red pill is the one you take to find out the hard truth, the blue one is the one you take to stay in wonderland.

5452
The Troubled Teen Industry / Thanks
« on: November 05, 2006, 05:15:15 AM »
Thanks for the info Deb.  How legitimate is IECA?  Is it truly an "Independant" educational consulting firm.  I'm starting to doubt that. :lol:

Doesn't anybody check up on theses assholes (besides fornits posters)?

5453
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: leaving
« on: November 04, 2006, 04:36:12 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
they spend so much energy on making sure you have staff that you connect with. In many cases, the student claims they are as close or even closer with their support staff than their own parents.

Yup.  Those workshops can be a real doozie.  Hey man: "Tell it all brother..."  It works.  They delete the old "you" and make you into the "you" you "really are".  After a while you forget the old nasty evil old "you" and learn to love the staff who taught you how to "find" the real "you".  After enough time you will even learn to bark on command and do tricks for the amusement of the staff.  What better way to provide happyness to others than by humiliating yourself on command.

Quote
After you are unleashed on the world with your new CEDU tools, you are alone. Yeah, with a little more support, care, aknowledgement, after CEDU, there could have existed a different relationship to the rest of society.

What?  You mean a relationship with openness and trust somewhat resembling the truth or reality?  Don't you know, fool child, that the truth is a lie.

Quote
What I'm trying to say is that if they did care maybe we could too.

Do more research my dear child.  Of course the cared deeply about you, and the (financial) love you brought them.  Why else would they have wanted you to stay there so long?  They needed to help you since you kept acting out incessantly, you silly goose.  Why your parents are so ashaimed of you. It's a good thing they cared about you so much more than they did.  Don't you know your friends they help you make and the staff who helped you discover who helped you discover your true self are your real family.

Quote
About the good things, and not hating them for leaving us out in the cold after we pour our hearts out to them in those bizarre workshops and all.

Why yes, the workshops were a delightful experience.  I remember hearing from a kid who ran his friend's head over with a motorboat...  Or the girl who liked to masturbate with spatulas.  It was so cute.  We used to call her "spatch".  I think we all felt better after letting it all out.

After all that screaming in our faces, and the crying, i remember i was so happy to be fed and have a nice pile up on the floor with my loving councelor and the rest of my true friends.  After all that self-discovery i was so happy to finally be allowed to eat and sleep.  Why i could barely stand at that point.  They showed me what love and true friendship was.

Hate them for what they did?  Heavens no i would never do such a thing.  I'm so grateful to my councelor for showing me the real me inside, and helping me to forget that evil bunch of lies that made up the old "me".

Quote
I know that I would feel differently about the whole experience if there was a more gradual approach to leaving and reintegrating into the realer world.

You should be grateful to go to an original CEDU school, child.  Where I went (cedu clone) "gradual" meant being dropped on the streets once the parents ran out of cash.  But I see their infinite wisdom in thier choices.  What better way to show a new adult the real world.  What better way to show love than by helping someone reach rock bottom, and then letting them build themselves up (or not, if you didn't remember what the program taught you).

Quote
There just could have been a way to adopt decent principles from the place and avoid the prospect of ideological black and white thinking.

But there is no gray my child.  There is only black and white.

Quote
Oh. and only if I didn't learn to hate myself so much too. how did do that anyway? and why?


It's ok child.  You're hating the evil old "you".  You need to remember the friends they helped the new "you" to make, the councelor they helped you to learn to love.  Oh but it is an eternal conflict my child, you must always remember the danger of relapsing into the old "you".  Remeber the first step to recovery from whatever your "issue" was.

Why yes my child, ADHD, learning disabilities, anxiety, depression, asburgers syndrome and -- any other issue you were there for, are all addictions and you need recovery which lasts a lifetime. Why else were you there?  You would not have been there unless you truly needed help.  Your parents did not know what to do with your acting out.  After all the pain you caused them eventually stopped caring.  Parents only have so much love you know.  But they still love you at CEDU my child and would take you back in a second if your parents had any money left.

to who is reading this at a glance, in case you can't tell, THIS IS SARCASM!"

5454
The Troubled Teen Industry / Qualities of Activism
« on: November 04, 2006, 03:32:34 AM »
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penal""
Jesus I'm glad CEDU is out of business.

I amend my statement. If you don't want hot rage, don't read Fornits.


Yes but their clones are all over the place.  Where do you think the staff went.  They're more resiliant than cockroaches.  It's like trying to break mercury with a hammer.

5455
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penal""
Any Fornits members know how to find these things out? Because I think we've got a corruption scandal waiting to be unleashed.


Don't blame on corruption what can be explained by incompetance.  Believe me, i used to work with the Govt.

That being said.  I truly hope Lon and the rest burn in hell for this.

5456
The Troubled Teen Industry / Qualities of Activism
« on: November 01, 2006, 04:02:09 AM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Quote from: ""Deborah""
And Mr and Mrs John Doe approve cause it keeps them safe from the 'helluns'. And, I disagree, the average American still knows nothing about the industry. Take a survey in your community.
;
Great post Deb. I dont live in your part of the world and when i am there this is hardly a polite dinner party topic so i have never asked, but do people really think that this industry keeps them safe from "helluns". I could understnad if they felt that these damn kids need a kick in the pants etc because you hear this everywhere. But given that the kids who go to these places are usually minors are they really feared by the general populace? Or do people imagine that these schools are much more caring and "therapudic" than they are?


It's a culture of fear.  You create a boogie man to scare people into buying what makes them "safe".  Commonly, this phenomenon is known as FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).  Programs scare parents into believing thier kids will end up dead-insane-injail and they fork over the dough to "fix" the kids.  Whether they believe it or not at the beginning, after the kids start "acting out" in program, they usually fall for it, and at the same time are glad they don't have to deal with it.  It's the same principle of any government contractor: make sure a "problem" exists so you can keep "fixing" it.

5457
The Troubled Teen Industry / Qualities of Activism
« on: October 31, 2006, 10:57:54 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
dont you think parents could already be doing this job if they really gave a shit... couldn't they visit the facility and act as a regulator themselves if they chose to?

Well when i personally visited the "boarding school" i was sent to with my parents it looked like it was a fine and dandy place.  We got to interview a few students who made it seem like they loved it there (later i found out they were threatened with "consequences", as was I when I was interviewed by parents.)  They made up stuff here and exaggerated stuff there, and put up a good enough show for the 1hr tour to make me think I would like it there.  It fooled me.  It fooled my parents.  It would fool pretty much anybody.

Also, NO they cannot visit whenever they want.  I wasn't even allowed to talk to my parents for the first month.  After that it was supervised with staff's finger on the phone so they could cut you off any time they wanted if they thought you were being "manipulative".  eeh.  Don't blame the parents.  95% were conned.

Quote
why wouldn't programs be able to fool the state like they sometimes fool parentS? ive read about how the upper level kids at programs are told to say how wonderful the program is, and they give tours and make it sound lovely. they will even bring the highest level kids to city meetings involving regulation to boast about how great the program is... so how do you prevent programs ffrom fooling the govt like this, as they currently are doing now? couldnt this type of regulation be a double edged sword, because parents believe the regulation is protecting their kid, when in fact it's business as usual, so the end result is more kids in programs but no real difference.


This is very true.  I don't trust government beaurocracy to get anything done well, if at all.  A false sense of security is a dangerous thing as well.  

On the other hand, if it is done competantly, it might help curb abuse.

Perhaps inspectors (at random times) could interview children (selected by the inspectors) from programs confidentially, ensuring them safety should they report abuse.  Sure a few are likely to lie, but if their stories don't line up, you know they are lying.  If you get repeated stories of the same type of thing, you take action and shut the program down (cops come, collect evidence, etc...).

I doubt it would happen though.  People in the US don't like the feds getting too intrusive.

5458
Quote from: ""Guest""
Don't forget psy that 44 of the top 100 universities of the world are American Universities. Whilst we do have the average unmotivated dullards who drop out, or do the bare minimum to get by there are plenty of hard working kids who want to get educated. The American education system is superior in the sense that we don't train kids to regurgitate crap like a trained monkey. Go check out the so called Japanese system of education and along with the majority of the more developed Asian countries.

Europe has a swell education system, but given they haven't won a war yet that they haven't started I just don't hold my breathe that they will go the distance as time goes on. Europeans are lazier than Americans, they work less, and European women are still treated as inferior by products of the workplace.

Don't crap on America just because some bleeding hearts cried about some retarded football players in Cleveland not knowing what state they are in. Of course most footballers won't know what state they are in. They play football for a reason, they simply haven't the mental capacity to function well enough to understand complex things like the Alphabet.


Next a book released to the European audience isn't going to do much for the American TBS problem. Anyone who has any sense will know that their is this rather large ocean in between the two continents. Simple geography makes it difficult for Europeans to do much about the problem. Releasing books, movies, articles, and other multimedia materiels in the United States creates a wider body of literature to dispell the myths surrounding TBS programs. The more people here about "ongoing" abuses in programs the more relavent it is to them. Rather than regurgitating the same tired old lists to people who have had their senses numbed by looking at lists such as the Vietnam War Memorial, try to keep the events current and local if at all possible.


Okey dokey.  I was not crapping on America TSW.  I assume that is you with the "bleeding hearts" expression.  If you want you can blame the liberals (rightly) for the pathetic state of public school education.  ("Oh we can't have them getting bad grades, it would hurt their feewings")  Since when is critique, or pointing out that the emperor has no clothes on, taking a dump on America?

Also, the whole European winning war thing is kind of stupid.  If the United States had not intervened in WWII, or WWI, a european country would have won the war.  There are no winners in war.  Sure we're the best in the world at blowing shit up but has it really done that much good?  Has it really made us popular?  Is that what you really want our country to be known for?  It's war making capability?

Europeans are not lazier, they just have not let themselves become slaves to the wage yet.  They know when to relax and take things easy.  As far as the glass cieling goes, when was the last time you saw a female president elected?  A female prime minister?  Thought so.

I lived in europe for a good portion of my life and most of what Americans think about other countries is nationalist propoganda they have been spoonfed since a very early age.  (Our country is the best in the world, and all other countries should be like us bla bla bla")  It's an arrogant attitude which is disasterous when applied to foreign policy.  For example see Iraq, or the nation building experiment before that, Cuba.  Gee that one turned out swell.  Read your history.

George Bush is an asshole, and an idiot, and Hillary is a machivellian bitch who i wouldn't trust to walk my dog.  Please cut the partisan crap out on both sides of this.  Can we just put aside our petty political bitching for just a few moments and actually productively explore some options about what is really important here: trying to stop institutionalized abuse by creating a loud enough noise.

5459
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Write books
« on: October 31, 2006, 06:49:14 AM »
Quote from: ""Covergaard""
But I have also seen books like 63days which is in progress. It is such personal stories about an unhuman system, we European people would like to read about.

Great.  I'm talking about making something for an audience with the education of the average 12 year old over there.  I used to live in Europe, i know how it is.  The educational system is not that great over here.  In the end, it does not matter if Europeans read such books, what say do they have over here?

Quote
I know from this forum that all the programs try to avoid that you talk with each other after you have left the institution. Their goal is that you all just stand a single person claiming the abuse so that the general public can not see that there is a system of abuse going on there.

Well after five years of looking around i finally found enough of them to make a difference in my case.  It's not easy, but for me, things are really starting to accelerate.  I'm wondering, now, what will I do once the devil is dead (not literally).

I suspect, unfortunately, that someone will see a money-making opportunity, and resurrect the program under another name.  I'm wondering what the particular wooden stake is for these programs so they don't come back to life. (yes it's halloween, so i get to use vampire analogies)  This is why i started this thread.  It's pointless to keep on killing zombies if they breed faster than you can shoot. (zombie analogies too)

Quote

At first hand it seems that is far out that I want you to turn some 6000 miles away to get help, but as you had written yourself:

Money rules!

And there is a hell of a lot of money in exploiting families in crisis.


Aha. Now it makes a little sense.  But money is useless if one cannot figure out what to spend it on.  On the other hand, if one can use money to buy an election via repetition of publicity, it is possable to ... aha.  i see where you are going.  Good suggestion.  more please.

5460
Quote from: ""Guest""
Many are probably genuinely scared for their kids and easily manipulated at a time when they are feeling vulnerable.


Bingo.  Yet cultural change is a hard thing to do, especially when you live in a country where the solution to every problem seems to be "throw money at it".

Any suggestions as to how to go about doing that (changing public opinion)?  I'm not saying it's not feasable, I just don't see a way how.  That's why I started this thread.

I have my own personal monster which i plan to slay, but it would be nice to address the larger issue(s) here as well.

Personally, i believe it's just a matter of creating something that is powerful enough to move people, entertaining enough to catch people's attention, and supported well enough to not be ignored.  Such things normally come around only once in a lifetime, yet i am convinced it is possable since it has been done.

We live in a culture of sound bites and 15 second news clips.  It is possable to get the attention of the public masses, and keep it long enough to say what is necessary to influence them?  I believe it is.  How?  Make it entertaining enough.

Let's try to think outside the box, consider what has not been done, consider the resources we have at our disposal, etc...  If enough minds come together on this one we will be able to shove a stake through this entire industry eventually.  I have no illusions that the first try will work, or that it will be easy, but i believe determination always pays off.

Pages: 1 ... 362 363 [364] 365 366 ... 368