Author Topic: brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good  (Read 7962 times)

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Offline psy

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brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2006, 04:49:28 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Many are probably genuinely scared for their kids and easily manipulated at a time when they are feeling vulnerable.


Bingo.  Yet cultural change is a hard thing to do, especially when you live in a country where the solution to every problem seems to be "throw money at it".

Any suggestions as to how to go about doing that (changing public opinion)?  I'm not saying it's not feasable, I just don't see a way how.  That's why I started this thread.

I have my own personal monster which i plan to slay, but it would be nice to address the larger issue(s) here as well.

Personally, i believe it's just a matter of creating something that is powerful enough to move people, entertaining enough to catch people's attention, and supported well enough to not be ignored.  Such things normally come around only once in a lifetime, yet i am convinced it is possable since it has been done.

We live in a culture of sound bites and 15 second news clips.  It is possable to get the attention of the public masses, and keep it long enough to say what is necessary to influence them?  I believe it is.  How?  Make it entertaining enough.

Let's try to think outside the box, consider what has not been done, consider the resources we have at our disposal, etc...  If enough minds come together on this one we will be able to shove a stake through this entire industry eventually.  I have no illusions that the first try will work, or that it will be easy, but i believe determination always pays off.
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Offline Covergaard

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Write books
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2006, 05:14:37 AM »
I have seen that several mothers had written books about their mother / daughter relationship and how they saved their childs life by the so-called hard decision to send it away.

Suchs books is about polish their own halo.

But I have also seen books like 63days which is in progress. It is such personal stories about an unhuman system, we European people would like to read about.

If several survivors join together in a single book and it could be published, I would throw light on the abuse.

I know from this forum that all the programs try to avoid that you talk with each other after you have left the institution. Their goal is that you all just stand a single person claiming the abuse so that the general public can not see that there is a system of abuse going on there.

At first hand it seems that is far out that you need to turn some 6000 miles away to get help, but as you had written yourself:

Money rules!

And there is a hell of a lot of money in exploiting families in crisis.
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Offline psy

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Re: Write books
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2006, 06:49:14 AM »
Quote from: ""Covergaard""
But I have also seen books like 63days which is in progress. It is such personal stories about an unhuman system, we European people would like to read about.

Great.  I'm talking about making something for an audience with the education of the average 12 year old over there.  I used to live in Europe, i know how it is.  The educational system is not that great over here.  In the end, it does not matter if Europeans read such books, what say do they have over here?

Quote
I know from this forum that all the programs try to avoid that you talk with each other after you have left the institution. Their goal is that you all just stand a single person claiming the abuse so that the general public can not see that there is a system of abuse going on there.

Well after five years of looking around i finally found enough of them to make a difference in my case.  It's not easy, but for me, things are really starting to accelerate.  I'm wondering, now, what will I do once the devil is dead (not literally).

I suspect, unfortunately, that someone will see a money-making opportunity, and resurrect the program under another name.  I'm wondering what the particular wooden stake is for these programs so they don't come back to life. (yes it's halloween, so i get to use vampire analogies)  This is why i started this thread.  It's pointless to keep on killing zombies if they breed faster than you can shoot. (zombie analogies too)

Quote

At first hand it seems that is far out that I want you to turn some 6000 miles away to get help, but as you had written yourself:

Money rules!

And there is a hell of a lot of money in exploiting families in crisis.


Aha. Now it makes a little sense.  But money is useless if one cannot figure out what to spend it on.  On the other hand, if one can use money to buy an election via repetition of publicity, it is possable to ... aha.  i see where you are going.  Good suggestion.  more please.
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Offline Anonymous

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brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2006, 07:10:34 AM »
Don't forget psy that 44 of the top 100 universities of the world are American Universities. Whilst we do have the average unmotivated dullards who drop out, or do the bare minimum to get by there are plenty of hard working kids who want to get educated. The American education system is superior in the sense that we don't train kids to regurgitate crap like a trained monkey. Go check out the so called Japanese system of education and along with the majority of the more developed Asian countries.

Europe has a swell education system, but given they haven't won a war yet that they haven't started I just don't hold my breathe that they will go the distance as time goes on. Europeans are lazier than Americans, they work less, and European women are still treated as inferior by products of the workplace.

Don't crap on America just because some bleeding hearts cried about some retarded football players in Cleveland not knowing what state they are in. Of course most footballers won't know what state they are in. They play football for a reason, they simply haven't the mental capacity to function well enough to understand complex things like the Alphabet.


Next a book released to the European audience isn't going to do much for the American TBS problem. Anyone who has any sense will know that their is this rather large ocean in between the two continents. Simple geography makes it difficult for Europeans to do much about the problem. Releasing books, movies, articles, and other multimedia materiels in the United States creates a wider body of literature to dispell the myths surrounding TBS programs. The more people here about "ongoing" abuses in programs the more relavent it is to them. Rather than regurgitating the same tired old lists to people who have had their senses numbed by looking at lists such as the Vietnam War Memorial, try to keep the events current and local if at all possible.
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Offline Anonymous

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brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2006, 08:08:53 AM »
Teen programs will stop the same day parents stop calling them. Spend a hundred million dollars (people in this thread sure talk like they have access to money) on TV ads and see how many parents that stops from calling.

Look how many parents you see on this board, and in other advocacy groups. Only a handful, why? Because most were not 'duped' they signed on willingly and still to this day the program worked out great. If, like people suggest, so many parents feel double-crossed, lied to and ripped off, where are they? They have the money, the bigger voices in media and professional arenas. There's some in court suing, I guess that's how they view vindication, with money, but it won't keep any new parents from signing up now will it.
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Offline Anonymous

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brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2006, 08:24:34 AM »
Quote
I think it is easy to label every parent who sends their kid to one of these terrible places a selfish monster but I am not convinced that this is the case every time. Many are probably genuinely scared for their kids and easily manipulated at a time when they are feeling vulnerable. Sure there will always be mommie dearests, stepbitches and control freak dads, but it is as unfair to label all progamme parents this way as it is for programmes to call all the kids manipulators and liars.


I don't think it's honest to limit the choice to monster/stepbitch or a poor ignorant, good hearted fool. Somewhere in the middle lies negligence and risk assumption on the part of the child.
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Offline Oz girl

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brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2006, 08:35:02 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Go check out the so called Japanese system of education and along with the majority of the more developed Asian countries.

 Europeans are lazier than Americans, they work less, and European women are still treated as inferior by products of the workplace.

Don't crap on America just because some bleeding hearts cried about some retarded football players in Cleveland not knowing what state they are in. Of course most footballers won't know what state they are in. They play football for a reason, they simply haven't the mental capacity to function well enough to understand complex things like the Alphabet.
.


Have you been to any of these countries? Met any Japanese kids? If you have you must realise that they have an outstanding public education system and that their kids are raised to strongly value learning.
And which countries in europe mistreat women in the work place. Sweden which has paid maternity and paternity pay for over a year after the kid is born?
How are europeans lazy? I assume you are referring to individual countries within Europe as opposed to considering it one big country. If you are referring to countries like Italy Spain or Greece which still observe a siesta but also have shops and restuarants open till late at night you may do well to remember that all of these nations place an emphasis on work life balance. People here work to live not the other way around. One countries idea of lazy is anothers balanced. Of course you might mean Germany which has a guaranteed 6 weeks annual leave for all full time workers. last time i went there i did not see anyone lazing around. Perhaps you just dont like the French. Afterall if the book is correct their women dont get fat! Nobody knows because you did not specify which countries were lazy!
I don't think anyone was dissing Americans but your comments have hardly made you look like one of its intellectual elite!
I do agree though that in addition to international exposure the focus needs to be within the US as it appears that the majority of the TBS industry kids are American.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2006, 09:48:04 AM »
:roll:
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Offline psy

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brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2006, 10:27:50 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Don't forget psy that 44 of the top 100 universities of the world are American Universities. Whilst we do have the average unmotivated dullards who drop out, or do the bare minimum to get by there are plenty of hard working kids who want to get educated. The American education system is superior in the sense that we don't train kids to regurgitate crap like a trained monkey. Go check out the so called Japanese system of education and along with the majority of the more developed Asian countries.

Europe has a swell education system, but given they haven't won a war yet that they haven't started I just don't hold my breathe that they will go the distance as time goes on. Europeans are lazier than Americans, they work less, and European women are still treated as inferior by products of the workplace.

Don't crap on America just because some bleeding hearts cried about some retarded football players in Cleveland not knowing what state they are in. Of course most footballers won't know what state they are in. They play football for a reason, they simply haven't the mental capacity to function well enough to understand complex things like the Alphabet.


Next a book released to the European audience isn't going to do much for the American TBS problem. Anyone who has any sense will know that their is this rather large ocean in between the two continents. Simple geography makes it difficult for Europeans to do much about the problem. Releasing books, movies, articles, and other multimedia materiels in the United States creates a wider body of literature to dispell the myths surrounding TBS programs. The more people here about "ongoing" abuses in programs the more relavent it is to them. Rather than regurgitating the same tired old lists to people who have had their senses numbed by looking at lists such as the Vietnam War Memorial, try to keep the events current and local if at all possible.


Okey dokey.  I was not crapping on America TSW.  I assume that is you with the "bleeding hearts" expression.  If you want you can blame the liberals (rightly) for the pathetic state of public school education.  ("Oh we can't have them getting bad grades, it would hurt their feewings")  Since when is critique, or pointing out that the emperor has no clothes on, taking a dump on America?

Also, the whole European winning war thing is kind of stupid.  If the United States had not intervened in WWII, or WWI, a european country would have won the war.  There are no winners in war.  Sure we're the best in the world at blowing shit up but has it really done that much good?  Has it really made us popular?  Is that what you really want our country to be known for?  It's war making capability?

Europeans are not lazier, they just have not let themselves become slaves to the wage yet.  They know when to relax and take things easy.  As far as the glass cieling goes, when was the last time you saw a female president elected?  A female prime minister?  Thought so.

I lived in europe for a good portion of my life and most of what Americans think about other countries is nationalist propoganda they have been spoonfed since a very early age.  (Our country is the best in the world, and all other countries should be like us bla bla bla")  It's an arrogant attitude which is disasterous when applied to foreign policy.  For example see Iraq, or the nation building experiment before that, Cuba.  Gee that one turned out swell.  Read your history.

George Bush is an asshole, and an idiot, and Hillary is a machivellian bitch who i wouldn't trust to walk my dog.  Please cut the partisan crap out on both sides of this.  Can we just put aside our petty political bitching for just a few moments and actually productively explore some options about what is really important here: trying to stop institutionalized abuse by creating a loud enough noise.
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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Offline Anonymous

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brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2006, 11:18:21 PM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Go check out the so called Japanese system of education and along with the majority of the more developed Asian countries.

 Europeans are lazier than Americans, they work less, and European women are still treated as inferior by products of the workplace.

Don't crap on America just because some bleeding hearts cried about some retarded football players in Cleveland not knowing what state they are in. Of course most footballers won't know what state they are in. They play football for a reason, they simply haven't the mental capacity to function well enough to understand complex things like the Alphabet.
.

Have you been to any of these countries? Met any Japanese kids? If you have you must realise that they have an outstanding public education system and that their kids are raised to strongly value learning.
And which countries in europe mistreat women in the work place. Sweden which has paid maternity and paternity pay for over a year after the kid is born?
How are europeans lazy? I assume you are referring to individual countries within Europe as opposed to considering it one big country. If you are referring to countries like Italy Spain or Greece which still observe a siesta but also have shops and restuarants open till late at night you may do well to remember that all of these nations place an emphasis on work life balance. People here work to live not the other way around. One countries idea of lazy is anothers balanced. Of course you might mean Germany which has a guaranteed 6 weeks annual leave for all full time workers. last time i went there i did not see anyone lazing around. Perhaps you just dont like the French. Afterall if the book is correct their women dont get fat! Nobody knows because you did not specify which countries were lazy!
I don't think anyone was dissing Americans but your comments have hardly made you look like one of its intellectual elite!
I do agree though that in addition to international exposure the focus needs to be within the US as it appears that the majority of the TBS industry kids are American.



Yes I have been to Japan on three different occasions. I have also interacted with numerous teachers, or survivors, of the Japanese educational system. Who does like the French anyway? They get 8 weeks of annual leave to go roast their sorry asses on the Riveria.

Didn't say I was trying to look like I was an elite of sorts. I leave that psuedo babble nonsense to the Europeans. I have a living to make and a family to raise thank you very much.

International Exposure on TBS??? HAHAHAHAHAHAAH Woman you know so little about this country and the average American reaction to foreign intervention.

GET A CLUE!

Also pm me later on yahoo. I want to make fun of you more.. wink wink wink.. ahahahahahahah
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #55 on: November 01, 2006, 03:23:23 AM »
So mr International man of mystery. How many Eorupean countries have you visited? :wink:
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Offline Anonymous

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brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2006, 08:13:01 AM »
How many times have you spelled European right?
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Offline Anonymous

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brainstorming session: shutting programs down for good
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2006, 09:50:57 AM »
So I made up a bunch of DVD's about programs and handed  them out at my local church and supermarket and guess what!?!? !All the parents were asking me how can they send their kid away?!  :D
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Offline karmakommando

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A You Tube video is dismantling Landmark Education,
« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2006, 11:09:38 PM »
which is est repackaged.   A lot of the stuff you all have written on these forums is very similar to the whole large group awareness training  industry, where there is no regulation and a lot of abuse, in the name of helping.  

There is a lot of info about the you tube video exposing landmark forum on the Rick Ross website.   The rickross.com  message board would welcome all the info,  pro and con, anyone has about these boot camps and wilderness academies.  That forum just registered it's 20,000th post, not to mention the thousands and thousands of views it  has received.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2006, 01:32:54 AM »
KK, can you do us a favor as well? If anyone on that forum has firsthand information about the things we talk about on Fornits, directly knows anyone who was subjected to this, or (most importantly!) is in a position to help stop it at least locally, can you please bring that person over here?
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